21 replies to this topic

[Noodle Pryde]

Why does it cost so many C-bills to convert historic XP to SP's for mechs I already mastered? I already played TONS of matches to grind up the XP for theses mechs, but now I have to grind c-bills so I can get enough SP's to re-master mechs I've already mastered? Does this feel like a kick in the pants to anyone else?

[SPNKRGrenth]

Because it's still XP. It's the XP you had on your mech before the new skill tree, and is otherwise identical to XP you've earned on the mech after the patch. Now historic SP on the other hand, that is free to use on any mechs that have them, and is based on how much of the old skill tree you had unlocked for that mech before the new skill tree cam out.

[Appuagab]

Because C-bill sinks in Russ' new fetish.

>air/arty strike spam
>light engines and all the other new tech
>skill tree

REEEEEEE CHEAPSKATES YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SWAPPING MODULES

[Burning2nd]

I had no problems...

i went from like 50million cbills with a few hundred modules... To 750,000million cbills..

I went from 50 mc to 3,500 mc
i went from 11k gxp to like 50,000 sp

Of course i blew thru a half a billion in like 3 days.... but it worked out

[Bonzai VI]

@Burning2nd

I am really sorry if this sounds offending to you.

But who the heck cares how much you've got refunded?

[Tarl Cabot]

If your mechs were mastered, they already had 91 SP. HXP is the XP from the same variant mech. PGI did that so that if they were NOT mastered, you get to decide where to move the HXP so it can be converted to SP w/cbills instead of you having to drop into battle to earn more XP.

[Epicurius]

Why does it have to be so complicated? Why not just XP. Period. Just one currency. Just one is all that is needed. Instead we have four types of XP?

[Titan Zero]

Grinding C-bills is how they make up for lack of content and to keep new players around longer.

[Bonzai VI]

Epicurius, on 03 August 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

Why does it have to be so complicated? Why not just XP. Period. Just one currency. Just one is all that is needed. Instead we have four types of XP?

There are only 3? XP, GXP, HXP.

[Epicurius]

Bonzai VI, on 03 August 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

There are only 3? XP, GXP, HXP.

Sorry, yes you are right. There are only 3.

I guess my frustration is from reading the 1.4 patch notes and coming across the parts about Skill Points and XP. There are SIX different types of SP and XP three each. In my mind....I see only a need for one currency there. Just XP. Period. There is no need for General XP or Historical XP. Just seems like they could have dumped everything into one bucket. XP. And then let us use that to buy the Skill nodes.

[Bonzai VI]

Epicurius, on 03 August 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

I guess my frustration is from reading the 1.4 patch notes and coming across the parts about Skill Points and XP. There are SIX different types of SP and XP three each. In my mind....I see only a need for one currency there. Just XP. Period. There is no need for General XP or Historical XP. Just seems like they could have dumped everything into one bucket. XP. And then let us use that to buy the Skill nodes.

And then we don't even need to play mechs cuz we got enough XP anyway. Right. It's okay the way it is now.

BTW your "types" of SP are just how you buy them. Either you have got historic SP for that particular mech, or still have general SP to spend. Otherwise you buy it with XP. GSP and HSP are for your benefit, so why delete them?...

Edited by Bonzai VI, 03 August 2017 - 07:36 AM.

[Epicurius]

Thanks for the reply Bonzai. It's just frustrating for me to have to navigate a new system I guess. Something that I will have to get used to. One question though.....

How are Small Pulse Lasers handled in the Firepower branch of the skill tree? There used to be a module that would increase the firing rate of them. Which skill node covers that? On the skill tree, I see Laser Duration. Does that cover SPLs?

[Bonzai VI]

Yep, Laser Duration affects every kind of laser. Standard and Pulse.

[Epicurius]

Do you know which node affects SPL fire rate?

[BTGbullseye]

Fire rate of all weapons excluding the RACs are affected by the 'cooldown' skill nodes. The 'laser duration' affects how long the beam 'burns' and reducing that both speeds the refire time, and reduces the duration that you have to point at your target for full damage. Heat generation is a big one for getting the most of almost any weapon, excluding the Gauss, as that reduces the amount of heat generated by each weapon. (it doesn't affect ghost heat though IIRC)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 03 August 2017 - 10:05 AM.

[Appuagab]

Bonzai VI, on 03 August 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

There are only 3? XP, GXP, HXP.

XP, GXP, HXP, SP, GSP, HSP, C-Bills.
All of them are/were earned in matches.
All of them are used to upgrade mechs.
Half of them are just making things overcomplicated.
One of them bothers PGI too much.

[Bonzai VI]

You can make it overcomplicated yeah...

But if that's overcomplicated I'm worried about you^^

[Appuagab]

Bonzai VI, on 03 August 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

You can make it overcomplicated yeah...

But if that's overcomplicated I'm worried about you^^

I knew about how all these kind of XP and SP work because I was monitoring official site for updates, reading roadmaps, keeping track on skill tree WIP changes, taking part in discussions about module refunds and so on. When my friend returned to MWO after a long break to check new tech, he was welcomed with this:
1. Bloated skill maze with zero logic in its composition.
2. Three kinds of XP and three kinds of SP with unnecessary amount of clicks just to convert one into another.
2. My (not even game's itself!) long explanations about where he got any kind of XP/SP from and what's the reasoning behind it.

He decided to just ignore the skill maze not to remind himself about PGI's incompetence but in a couple of days he dropped MWO again because same old stale messy maps with same old stale skirmish game modes and faction play (War Chest event was going on by that time) with same old stuck in drop menu bug and same old broken matchmaking.

[Bonzai VI]

Dude, the head behind MWO isn't Yoko Taro, of course there's gonna be things that are wrong.

But if you have to hang yourself up on trivial stuff like this, that is learned within not even 2 minutes I'm not sure if you're even the target for such changes, since they improved the game drastically.

About your (actually) third point, you could have just gave him the information where the changes are listed in the patchnotes so he could himself read it, but do you really need long explanations for this?

And if he dropped the game again, maybe it isn't for him? There are several ways to actually work on one if he wants to and improve in the game. But people don't want that.

Appuagab, on 04 August 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

I knew about how all these kind of XP and SP work because I was monitoring official site for updates, reading roadmaps, keeping track on skill tree WIP changes, taking part in discussions about module refunds and so on.

That's a bit much, isn't it? I read the patchnotes once and then knew what was going on^^ (XP and SP wise, read enough posts about general stuff)
You artificially inflated the amount of information you got about the changes and now are angry cuz it's overcomplicated which it really isn't since nearly every change has sense behind it...

If they simplified everything and got only one currency of SP and one of XP, many people would still be dumb enough to then buy all 200+ nodes on a mech "cuz if it's there i should take it right?", even though the system drastically changed is now a give and take instead of a mindless "i getz all rite?".

I don't really want a game that's made so a bunch of morons can easily access it, because the game isn't that easy. It has tactical depth and actually needs skill and time investment, which ~80% of the community doesn't even know about since they're to stuck up on bashing PGI, even when they make good changes.

BTW "unnecessary amount of clicks" to convert SP. How do you think should it work? Since with the system in place one needs to actually select what he's going to do.

They could get rid of GXP, but that would be incredibly annoying since i want to give some SP on my new mechs in advance (Radar dep + Advanced zoom in most cases).
If we just have regular XP, that is shared between ALL mechs, then I've got ~half a million XP from my trebuchet alone and there is no reason to actually play my mechs since I've already completed their tech trees with the massive amount of XP I've then got.

HXP also has his rightful place, since i also have several types of mechs, for example my Hunchie-IIC, one is equipped with med-pulse and one with ppcs as main weaponry, why should i be punished for buying two of them and not be able to seperate the XP like i want onto them?

I see that you're simply angry with the mistakes PGI made, but you also gotta see that they improved.

Edited by Bonzai VI, 04 August 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[Appuagab]

Bonzai VI, on 04 August 2017 - 01:29 AM, said:

BTW "unnecessary amount of clicks" to convert SP. How do you think should it work? Since with the system in place one needs to actually select what he's going to do.

Option A (requires some dignity from developer): skills cost only XP, no need for additional SP currencies, no need for huge spreadsheets to clarify refunds because everything is refunded as it was.
Option B (REEE CHEAPSKATES): skill cost only C-bills, people get 91 SP worth refund of their unlocked skills alongside with modules refunds, XP and GXP retire. Because in current system XP is a joke. Everything is locked behind C-bills sink wall and that the only thing that really matters. New player has to farm C-bills in the first place. Old players have so much GXP that they (we) can respec and reapply nodes before every match just for fun.
Bonus: no respec costs nonsence.
Option B is basically what we have now but without refund mazes and billions of currencies converted one into another.