73 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

with dual gauss + 5 ISERML you can take an XL350-375 or an LFE325-350

55 damage is unworthy of an assault, and those XL engines won't be worth it. You are still too slow and your firepower is too low. I can run dual gauss and 4 ER ML on a Warhammer with an LFE.... That is a garbage assault build. The Deathstrike does 6 CLAN ER MLs, which is a total of 42 damage, but really, the better Deathstrikes have 2 ERLL and 4 ERML. Comparing that with 25 damage from 5 IS ERMLs is a joke.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

sure you can do it. but its a bad build.

Yeah because LRMs, but its not a bad LRM build, LRMs are just bad. Needless to say, I can aim so I won't be running an LRM90 build. Also a bad build: 2 Gauss 5 ERML

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

Im fine with that too. I mean im not gonna put 6 LRM15s on anything anyway. Because thats a dumb build.

On the direwolf im gonna use the 4E, 1B arms and 2B side torsos

Because assaults NEED to use ballistic weapons in order to stay ahead in the firepower curve. Thats just a fact of the game. Its the only way assaults can get a firepower advantage over heavies since both are subject to the same heat cap.

Another fact of the game is all that you need is the Prime arms on the Dire. 2 ERLL, 6 ERML, Dual Gauss 23 DHS. Done. Any other build is a sub par Dire build, aside from the 8 UAC2 build I guess. Git gud at Dire Whaling.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

The only person that wants to put six LRM15s on an assault mech is you. Thats not a good enough reason to add the Turkina IMO.

I never said I wanted to do that, just that it was something new.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

Again id rather have the Pirahna as a new clan mech instead. Because we get a 20 tonner we never had before. We can frontload our dropdecks. And itt can spam enough microlasers or light machine guns to actually make them useful.

The only reason I wouldn't is because light mechs get old for me quickly but yeah I guess the Clans need a 20 tonner.

[Khobai]

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55 damage is unworthy of an assault

55 damage is actually pretty good on a faster moving IS assault. Thats kindve the whole point of the nightstar. it sacrifices firepower for a bigger engine cap. Because if youre not going to take advantage of the higher engine cap you might as well just play a superior Mauler or Annihilator instead.

the difference between IS mechs and Clan mechs is IS mechs have to give something up to improve themselves in another area (i.e. trade firepower for speed). So for the nightstar to capitalize on its larger engine cap you have to give up firepower. whereas clans dont have to give anything up at all because of CXL.

its why ISXL should be changed to survive side torso destruction. it would allow mechs like the nightstar to function properly. and then most of the stupid IS structure quirks could also be removed.

This game is never gonna be even close to balanced until they make ISXL survive side torso blowout.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[Trenchbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Eh, for that matter, we shouldn't have added the SNV or the Mad Cat Mk. II

Hahaha. No, that's wrong, and a pretty crappy way to try putting words in my mouth. The Summoner is the agile, jumpy Clan Heavy; The Mad Cat MkII is another generalist (And honestly, something we should've gotten instead of the Marauder IIC)

Edited by Catten Hart, 31 July 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

55 damage is actually pretty good on a faster moving IS assault.

Un, no it isn't. You can do that on a Battlemaster with an LFE and be faster.

You can do dual gauss and 4 ERML on a Warhammer with an LFE. 5 ERMLs and dual gauss is pitiful on a 95 tonner, because you are still going less than 70 even with an XL. Range isn't that great either.

Turkina>Nightstar, sorry

Catten Hart, on 31 July 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

Hahaha. No, that's wrong, and a pretty crappy way to try putting words in my mouth. The Summoner is the agile, jumpy Clan Heavy; The Mad Cat MkII is another generalist (And honestly, something we should've gotten instead of the Marauder IIC)

SNV=Supernova

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, just showing how meaningless your statement was. We could have done without several mechs depending on your criteria for what needs to be added. You don't want the Turkina, and that's cool, but there isn't really any objective rationale for that.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 01:12 PM.

[Khobai]

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Un, no it isn't. You can do that on a Battlemaster with an LFE and be faster.

I never said the Nightstar was as good as a Battlemaster. Few IS assaults are.

Although with the Gauss rifles the Nightstar will run a hell of a lot cooler than the Battlemaster. But like I said for the Nightstar to truly reach its full potential, ISXL needs to be changed to survive side torso blowout.

Thats a change that NEEDS to happen or the game will never be balanced.

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Turkina>Nightstar, sorry

Direwolf > Turkina though.

The reason we dont need the Turkina has nothing to do with the Nightstar. And everything to do with the fact the Direwolf is already better in virtually every way. The Turkina would be on life support the moment its added to the game. We dont need another terrible assault. We just need a fixed Direwolf.

And you can fix the Nightstar by making ISXL survive side torso blowout. But the Turkina will always be worse than the Direwolf. Unless you got rid of locked equipment on omnis, which I dont see happening. I think ISXL has a better chance of being buffed to survive ST blowout than omnis do of getting unlocked gear.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Un, no it isn't. You can do that on a Battlemaster with an LFE and be faster.

And even with 20 DHS, it's still ridiculously hot compared to the 72-80 from the MC II.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

Direwolf > Turkina though.

It really depends, we actually don't know this at this point. I imagine the Turkina torso would resemble the Supernova torso in many ways, just instead of having Dire-like arms like the Supernova, it would have arms a little bit more like the Ebon in that they don't really come down, and it for sure wouldn't have the enormous hood, and those big missile pods that are always pictured would go away if you didn't bring missiles. I could see it being much sleeker than a Dire, and therefore would probably spread damage better.

I'm also sure it would have improved torso yaw and better agility (the latter is a "for sure" based on it being 95 tons instead of 100 tons and locked to a slow engine).

Honestly, EVERYONE (myself included) said that the Supernova was going to be an inferior Marauder-IIC and was just going to be DoA. Sure enough, its great, and in my opinion better than the Marauder-IIC despite being quite a bit slower. Some well placed quirks and better agility go a long way.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

I think ISXL has a better chance of being buffed to survive ST blowout than omnis do of getting unlocked gear.

Neither is likely to happen so I wouldn't expect it.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 01:25 PM.

[Athom83]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

the difference between IS mechs and Clan mechs is IS mechs have to give something up to improve themselves in another area (i.e. trade firepower for speed). So for the nightstar to capitalize on its larger engine cap you have to give up firepower. whereas clans dont have to give anything up at all because of CXL.

its why ISXL should be changed to survive side torso destruction. it would allow mechs like the nightstar to function properly. and then most of the stupid IS structure quirks could also be removed.

This game is never gonna be even close to balanced until they make ISXL survive side torso blowout.

Its an old rule where if 3 engine critslots die, that kills the mech. However, the Nightstar seems it may be XL safe based on all the concept art we've been able to see. Yah, it has timby ears but they're pretty small and it looks like you can shield a side really well like a Marauder.

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Un, no it isn't. You can do that on a Battlemaster with an LFE and be faster.

True, but the Battlemaster has next to no armor for an assault mech. A lot of 65-70 tonners have more armor... heck some mediums have more armor.

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

You can do dual gauss and 4 ERML on a Warhammer with an LFE. 5 ERMLs and dual gauss is pitiful on a 95 tonner, because you are still going less than 70 even with an XL. Range isn't that great either.

But those side guns are more for AC/10s, UACs, etc instead of gauss. Yah, you can do it but really something that you should. I'd take twin UAC/10s over twin gauss in an assault any day. For that matter, maybe even twin RAC/5s.

[Khobai]

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And even with 20 DHS, it's still ridiculously hot compared to the 72-80 from the MC II.

obviously. because its using dual gauss. the nightstar with dual gauss doesnt run as hot as the battlemaster either.

the nightstar just falls behind because ISXL is so friggin gimped

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It really depends, we actually don't know this at this point. I imagine the Turkina torso would resemble the Supernova torso in many ways,

not seeing the resemblance.

the turkinas huge *** torso resembles the king crab more than anything else.

itd basically be the clan version of the king crab... it would be DoA.

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But those side guns are more for AC/10s, UACs, etc instead of gauss. Yah, you can do it but really something that you should. I'd take twin UAC/10s over twin gauss in an assault any day. For that matter, maybe even twin RAC/5s

I dunno if id wanna be brawling with an XL though. I think id feel safer using gauss. the problem with the nightstar is that to capitalize on its larger engine cap you have to use an XL engine. and if youre not going to capitalize on that larger engine cap, you might as well just play a mauler or annihilator instead

Again I really think they need to just make ISXL survive side torso destruction. thats solves so many balance issues overnight. And the nightstar would suddenly becomes much more viable.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 01:30 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

obviously. because its using dual gauss. the nightstar with dual gauss doesnt run as hot as the battlemaster either.

the nightstar just falls behind because ISXL is so friggin gimped

5 ERMLs without extra DHS won't really be cool. Yeah you can lean on the Gauss more but its worth pointing out that you won't be alpha-ing left and right.

Honestly, I can't remember the theory crafting I did, but I'm going to try for the 2 LL 3 ERML 2 Gauss build that ended up at like an LFE300 I think. At least that does 63 damage.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

not seeing the resemblance.

Well, you're choosing not to, but the shape it would have would be similar, perhaps just a bit more rounded and less wedge-y.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

I dunno if id wanna be brawling with an XL though. I think id feel safer using gauss. the problem with the nightstar is that to capitalize on its larger engine cap you have to use an XL engine. and if youre not going to capitalize on that larger engine cap, you might as well just play a mauler or annihilator instead

Well, with Gauss, not necessarily, because the Mauler/Annihilator has to keep them in the STs (arms are super low/don't have B hardoints).

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 01:29 PM.

[Khobai]

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Honestly, I can't remember the theory crafting I did, but I'm going to try for the 2 LL 3 ERML 2 Gauss build that ended up at like an LFE300 I think. At least that does 63 damage.

that defeats the whole purpose of the nightstar which is to go faster

youre better off just using an annihilator then

the only advantage the nightstar has over other IS assaults is its higher engine cap. if you dont take advantage of that higher engine cap, you might as well just play a mauler or annihilator, theyre better.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

that defeats the whole purpose of the nightstar which is to go fast

just use an annihilator then

Uh, no. I don't want Gauss rifles in side torsos or low arms. That is the worst advice I've ever heard.


Also, you do realize only ONE variant has a high engine cap right? Seems like "the whole purpose of the Nightstar" is only included on one mech? You have a strange way of thinking.

[Khobai]

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I don't want Gauss rifles in side torsos or low arms. That is the worst advice I've ever heard.

I never said put gauss on a mauler. use AC5s. theyre better than Gauss anyway for sniping.

AC5s on the mauler are awesome and way better than gauss.

the nightstar only has 2B though so it doesnt have the option to take enough AC5s to make them work.

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Also, you do realize only ONE variant has a high engine cap right? Seems like "the whole purpose of the Nightstar" is only included on one mech? You have a strange way of thinking.

every variant of the nightstar has a higher engine cap than the annihilator or mauler

that is literally the only reason to use the nightstar, it has no other advantages over those other assaults.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 01:43 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

I'd rather have the Blood Asp.

[Luminis]

The two of you really need to get a room.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

so use AC5s. its better than Gauss anyway.



every variant of the nightstar has a higher engine cap than the annihilator or mauler

AC5s? Stop trolling.

LFE300 is faster than a Annihilator, and 345 for a 95 tonner is more or less the same as a 325 in a 90 tonner. Don't be obtuse.

BTW, my Deathstrike currently has an XL300 in it. Get over it.

[Khobai]

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AC5s? Stop trolling.

Yes AC5s. Theyre one of the best ballistics for IS. Theyre way better than gauss especially on the mauler.

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LFE300 is faster than a Annihilator, and 345 for a 95 tonner is more or less the same as a 325 in a 90 tonner. Don't be obtuse.

Yeah but the most popular variant has a 400 engine cap not 345.

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BTW, my Deathstrike currently has an XL300 in it. Get over it.

thats way too slow. I would never put a 300 in a deathstrike lol.

clan mechs dont need to go that slow... thats kindve the whole point of CXL that you can have your cake and eat it too.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yes AC5s. Theyre one of the best ballistics for IS. Theyre way better than gauss especially on the mauler.

Completely different roles...

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

thats way too slow. I would never put a 300 in a deathstrike.

clan mechs dont need to go that slow...

Some people know how to use slow mechs, some don't. 58 is plenty fast when you have an 80 damage alpha strike.

Dire goes 48.6 with a 94 damage alpha. Works great.

[Khobai]

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Dire goes 48.6 with a 94 damage alpha. Works great.

the direwolf is anything but great right now.

[Armored Yokai]

Turkina is good, she's wide and fat like a king cran though.