79 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

We used to ask these questions all the time... but I think we as a community have lost hope that mediums will ever be useful outside of FactionPlay

I can't think of a reason to bring a medium mech over a heavy. I can go 105kph in my linebacker, or 87 in any of my omnis... I can go 80kph in my IS heavies with more weapons\armor...

I don't touch faction play, so weight limit isn't an issue...

Why bring a medium? Is this working as intended? Have we grown so used to the dominance of heavy mechs that we just don't care anymore?

I can still see the logic behind bringing 1 or at most 2 lights if they are going ~150kph... but why would I ever bring a medium over a fast heavy?

Also, why do easy targets like the centurion not have at least equivalent armor quirks as the bushwacker, who seems superior even without the quirks?

I used to love mediums for their speed and maneuverability, but ever since the invasion, if I don't bring a heavy or fast assault I feel like im wasting my potential as a pilot

[mogs01gt]

Cats and Cicadas still have their place due to ECM but most other mediums out side of Crows and Novas are a bit useless. They are typically stuck in one style of play. Its typically long range, short range or be a weaker skirmisher vs a heavier mech. Either way, they typically have less alphas and have to wait until their teammates applied damage.

It still comes down to heavies and some assaults being too 'agile' then they should be.

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[Funk1777]

I feel like I perform just as well or even better just doing solo QP in many of my mediums over some of my heavies. My Hunchbacks, Huntsmans, Stormcrows, Crabs, Novas sometimes, and Griphons all seem to do decent enough when I actually play them. I dont actually own many more mediums but on the heavy side I feel I have more mechs I have a harder time with.

The Black Knight(which I used to love) has such low mounts and lower agility I seem to die fairly easy in it. I do better in my Grasshopper, but both mechs seem to suffer from the " theyre giant, theyre a priority target" syndrome. I have 2 Orion IIC's that are set up as brawlers that are amazing but they also seem to get that big ST dropped in no time. I still have a great time in my Ebon Jags but my Timberwolf is usually relegated to longer range stuff now and Im not too fond of it.

I feel it depends more on the chassis and loadout than the weight class for a lot of mechs. Yes you have to play the lower armor guys as more flankers and theyre less forgiving if you round the wrong corner by yourself against someone that can aim, but the bigger mechs having larger hitboxes and a higher priority that can often spell doom if you are rolling around with others.
Superior agility and smaller hitboxes often make up for the 20 more armor a heavy would have in that spot.

[Baba Yogi]

Medium pilot here begs to differ. It all depends on your playstyle. I am most effective at medium mechs, less so with heavies and rather **** with assaults. I dont like heavies in general because they feel too clunky to move around. Mediums have far better mobility in general, while most heavies dont have JJs(which are 1 ton a piece btw) alot of high-end mediums have JJs. I can strike enemy firing line from any angle i please with mediums and do it fast enough to not take return fire. You just cant do it with heavies, and if you are caught with a heavy u are ******. Mediums at least can retreat well. My guess is you dont know how to play mediums and/or dont know how to build an effective one.

[Rovertoo]

I think the easiest way is just to give all mediums better agility (or give heavies and assaults less, but I feel that some are already annoying slow sometimes). Turn radius and yaw speed would make them really good brawlers and hunters. Id also say they're tanky enough right now (with some quirk-y exceptions on either end) so an agility boost would be enough to make mediums be more common than other classes.

That said I dont think its that bad right now, I love my mediums and think they do well enough, barring my personal performance dragging everything down. I prefer mediums agility to my heavies any day, but then again all I have are 64kph IS heavies, which feel like piloting boulders with legs.

But then personally Id also suggest a total quirk reset and just have all weight classes have their own agility tier, with quirks only being used to balance geometry, like the hunchbacks hunch or Bushies nose. And then maybe simple blanket quirks (such as better energy weapon cooldown for the awesome or decreased crit chance for the atlas) just for mech character more than balance.

Edited by Rovertoo, 01 August 2017 - 10:31 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Doesn't the match-maker ensure that for every medium on your side, there is also one on the other side?
So the only thing your Medium really has to compare favorably to is to other Mediums.

[Luminis]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 August 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Doesn't the match-maker ensure that for every medium on your side, there is also one on the other side?
So the only thing your Medium really has to compare favorably to is to other Mediums.

While that's true, you can still take a Heavy and compare more favourably to the rest of your own team and the rest of the enemy team.

[stealthraccoon]

I'm always fond of my Mediums, but as of late they don't hold together very long and it can be difficult to bring something other than SRM's to a fight. Most of my 50 ton rides aren't fast enough to outrun an LBK, and don't hit any harder than a light if I do push them faster. Between being a larger target and not being as mobile, I just think you have to pick between: speed, power and defense and suck it up when you don't perform (I mean unless you are driving a clan mech...)

[xe N on]

Mediums could use some slightly more agility. Otherwise fine.

[DaMuchi]

max speed is a very very small part of agility. turn speed, twist speed, torso max angles, acceleration, deceleration are all greatly better in mediums than in heavies. But all those the heavies compensate with just raw power and armour. So it really just comes down to jumpjets. The REAL question is what is a medium without jumpjets used for?

[ScrapIron Prime]

Mediums have a place simply because group dropping with 4 or more pilots prevents everyone from running an assault mech in quick play, and that is a good and necessary mechanic. I routinely use a Griffin, Shadowhawk, Centurion, or Trebuchet as a line fighter or brawler.

[SuperFunkTron]

DaMuchi, on 01 August 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

max speed is a very very small part of agility. turn speed, twist speed, torso max angles, acceleration, deceleration are all greatly better in mediums than in heavies. But all those the heavies compensate with just raw power and armour. So it really just comes down to jumpjets. The REAL question is what is a medium without jumpjets used for?

I'm assuming you haven't figured out how to use the Ice-Ferret, Hunchback IIC, Phoenix Hawk, or Griffin yet. Those are just a few I can think of that can not only score very well, but serve as great distractions and open up enemies for team mates to work on.

If you are looking at damage alone, mechs with more weight for weapons should logically have higher damage potential in a single volley, but if you consider things like speed and size, you'll find that many of those mechs with less fire power have their own methods to dish out damage and survive.

I think the real issue of the OP is that he simply hasn't figured out how to pilot medium mechs yet and is upset about it.

[DaMuchi]

ScrapIron Prime, on 01 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Mediums have a place simply because group dropping with 4 or more pilots prevents everyone from running an assault mech in quick play, and that is a good and necessary mechanic. I routinely use a Griffin, Shadowhawk, Centurion, or Trebuchet as a line fighter or brawler.

I don't know if this is ever a thing because in a design stand point, it'll just make matchmaking extremely hard. and when was the last time you played? I've had games where there were 6 assaults, 4 heavies, 1 med and 1 light.

[DaMuchi]

SuperFunkTron, on 01 August 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'm assuming you haven't figured out how to use the Ice-Ferret, Hunchback IIC, Phoenix Hawk, or Griffin yet. Those are just a few I can think of that can not only score very well, but serve as great distractions and open up enemies for team mates to work on.

If you are looking at damage alone, mechs with more weight for weapons should logically have higher damage potential in a single volley, but if you consider things like speed and size, you'll find that many of those mechs with less fire power have their own methods to dish out damage and survive.

I think the real issue of the OP is that he simply hasn't figured out how to pilot medium mechs yet and is upset about it.

I don't own those mechs but I do own a bushwhacker, crab and stormcrow and still have no idea how to play them. My shadow cat and nova on average pull 600 damage, slightly lower than my heavies simply because I use their superior agility allowed by jumpjets to increase the windows of attack to compensate for the lack of firepower.

I don't know how to increase the opportunities to fire without jumpjets on a mech with medium class agility.

[Jun Watarase]

The engine desync made mediums worse. Mediums had a significant agility advantage over slow heavies/assaults, now thats gone. Armor/firepower is king in this game...there is a reason why the most popular builds sacrifice speed for firepower. How many people put XL 325s in their 70 and 75 tonner instead of a XL 300? Very few.

We would have to make speed and engine size very important in order to make lighter mechs viable again. That means removing engine desync for starters.

[MechaBattler]

The engine changes they made improved things for mediums. They lowered Heavies and Assault agility. However there are a few exceptions like the Linebacker and Dragon for heavies.

I think we're at a better balance between classes than before. Not surprisingly a lot of people were pissed that their pet heavies were no longer ballerinas. And of course outraged their 100 ton Kodiaks performed like other 100 ton mechs.

[davoodoo]

I dont know what kind of agility do you expect to get.

I never treated mediums as heavier lights i treated them as lighter heavies and tbh im not disappointed with my hunchbacks.
hbk4g with uac20 which can easily take out warhawk or dreaded poptart night gyr
and hbk2c with either 2 uac10 or 6 mplas which both can easily mess with ppc platforms or heavy dakka.

and the thing i love the most is that its the class where i can go balls out with firepower without worry about gh...which is more a statement about gh where mechs are limited to 50 ton firepower...

Edited by davoodoo, 01 August 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

DaMuchi, on 01 August 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

and when was the last time you played?

Uh.... yesterday? I'm on like 5 days a week.

Are you solo dropping or group dropping? And how large are the groups? Groups of 2 or 3 are pretty unrestricted for tonnage, above that, groups start to average closer to 50 tons in drop weight per person.

[DaMuchi]

ScrapIron Prime, on 01 August 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

Uh.... yesterday? I'm on like 5 days a week.

Are you solo dropping or group dropping? And how large are the groups? Groups of 2 or 3 are pretty unrestricted for tonnage, above that, groups start to average closer to 50 tons in drop weight per person.

I only solo queue. the largest group I ever played in was in a group of 2. That was a month or 2 ago though.

Edited by DaMuchi, 01 August 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[Khobai]

mediums are still inferior to fast heavies

they need to give mediums like 12.5% speed tweak instead of only 7.5%

that would give mediums 5% extra speed for speccing into speed tweak