114 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Ok guys, here's the recent warlog in FP.




As you can see, IS has 14 wins to Clan's 4, a 3.5:1 ratio. What's the argument now for Clans being OP? Did all the skilled players move over to the side "with the better equipment"? Is CXL still too OP compared to LFE+Durability quirks? A couple tons lighter on ballistics still OP compared to more precision and higher DPS due to quirks? Heavy lasers OP with IS lasers being able to fire two times for each alpha the Clanner puts out while still generating less heat? I know you guys are mad over the 25 ton advantage per player in FW dropping to only 10 tons soon, but dang.

Maybe Clans could use some buffs now, like the speed quirk on Summoners back, or more than 60 degree torso twist on all the Kodiaks that weren't the KDK-3, some armor quirks to the Dire Wolf, or maybe small lasers that don't have the duration of IS ER large lasers.

Its pretty clear at this point that the Clans OP narrative isn't holding up to the gameplay. Even the Tukk events get explained away quite well by most high skill units stocking up on Clan side to avoid the incoming hoard of players who rarely play FW, many of which being new or low tier players who bought an IS mech because it was cheaper then never bought engine upgrades, double heat sinks, or any other good upgrades on it, then threw together a dropdeck with a couple trials and a custom in there somewhere, then they get stomped on by Clan teams running the meta.

Even the Stormcrow was kicked out of scouting because bads got rekt by streaks too often, now IS has mechs capable of oneshotting any Clan 50 tonner singlehandedly, meaning any IS team running top mechs will stop any Clan team running top mechs in a brawl hands down.


We've been balancing IS vs Clans for too long without looking at the quirks, without looking at how they pair with the skill tree, without comparing top tier mechs to the top tier mechs of the other side. People have finally compared Urbanmechs to Kodiaks for long enough that they're starting to compete with each other while the IS top tier mechs run circles around everyone.

Lets go ahead and buff bad mechs on both sides, give the unused mechs some reason to be taken out of the mechbays and into the fields rather than nerfing whatever Clan mech becomes the scapegoat of the month and further limiting what mechs we see on the battlefield.

Spoiler

Edited by Dakota1000, 01 August 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[Standu]

all i want is racs to not suckbad

[Carl Vickers]

Yeah nope. Some very good units moved to the IS for new tech, once they decide they have had enough fun and move back to clans things will be back to normal. Add to that, in the matches I have been playing in FW, for once the clan pugglets are wrose than the IS pugglets.

I do agree with buffing some of the clan under performers though.

[Standu]

Carl Vickers, on 01 August 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Yeah nope. Some very good units moved to the IS for new tech, once they decide they have had enough fun and move back to clans things will be back to normal. Add to that, in the matches I have been playing in FW, for once the clan pugglets are wrose than the IS pugglets.

I do agree with buffing some of the clan under performers though.

that might be enough to explain the current warlog stats, but my personal experience is enough evidence to prove the contrary IMO. with about half my total playtime on clan side, i can say with confidence that every time i've come across more than 6 IS players in the same unit on the enemy team we've been stomped. the stronger IS equipment isn't enough to carry the baked potato level pugs you get at times, but if you have two equally skilled teams the IS side will stomp 95% of matches.

Edited by Philosophical Zombie, 01 August 2017 - 06:18 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Philosophical Zombie, on 01 August 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

that might be enough to explain the current warlog stats, but my personal experience is enough evidence to prove the contrary IMO. with about half my total playtime on clan side, i can say with confidence that every time i've come across more than 6 IS players in the same unit on the enemy team we've been stomped. the stronger IS equipment isn't enough to carry the baked potato level pugs you get at times, but if you have two equally skilled teams the IS side will stomp 95% of matches.

That will more than likely change when IS tonnage goes to 250 as well. Too many terribads relying on extra tonnage to win the match bringing too many assaults.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Carl Vickers, on 01 August 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

That will more than likely change when IS tonnage goes to 250 as well. Too many terribads relying on extra tonnage to win the match bringing too many assaults.

To be honest, with how bad terribads do in assaults, due to the slow speed they put on them, they might end up just doing better with heavies.

[Jun Watarase]

Its actually pretty easy to tell when a side is OP because you will see the majority of the top/competitive players stacking that side.

Remember how almost every mech in a quickplay math used to be a PPC/AC5 poptart of some kind? Why? Because it was OP. Organized teams and competitive players use the most powerful options available. If one side is OP, they would be stacking the hell out of it. Just like how they stack the most powerful mechs in FP.

Funny how you dont have big IS units going clan to try out the new stuff (or at least, anywhere on the scale that big clan units supposedly decided to go IS to test the new IS stuff). Why? Not hard to guess...because stuff like ATMs and heavy lasers are junk. if they were OP, you would see a lot of IS players going clans to use them and we would either have balanced sides or clans dominating every cycle.

I can 100% guarantee you that if the new IS tech was junk, you wouldnt have big clan units going IS to "test them out"...because people would test them out in quick play, come to the conclusion that they are junk, and not bother changing sides in FP to "test them out".

Edited by Jun Watarase, 01 August 2017 - 06:31 PM.

[Mcgral18]

I haven't played a single Faction Play match in quite some time


Something tells me, I'm not the only competent player who hasn't

CW is Potato Galore, and has no place in balance discussions

[Standu]

Carl Vickers, on 01 August 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

That will more than likely change when IS tonnage goes to 250 as well. Too many terribads relying on extra tonnage to win the match bringing too many assaults.

bringing down the tonnage limit is certainly a step in the right direction, but the IS still has more value per ton anyway.
actual balance changes are the way to go here IMO.

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2017 - 06:35 PM, said:

I haven't played a single Faction Play match in quite some time


Something tells me, I'm not the only competent player who hasn't

CW is Potato Galore, and has no place in balance discussions

yeah, FW needs some serious work, but i think it still helps to illustrate the point

[El Bandito]

Cross faction balance should be taken from comp league, than CW.

[Dr Mlem]

I don't think its because IS tech is better.

It's the fact they have a huge tonnage increase that skews the numbers.

Are IS helpless weak robits that some say they are? No. But they aren't massively more powerful.

[The6thMessenger]

Well, i've played my fair share of CW. I have won and lost against IS, even despite the new tech.

IMHO, it's more of coordination + skill than actual tech really, it's just lots of idiots on both sides even large premade one-unit groups are sometimes stupid. Sometimes even when coordinated, pilots sometimes still suck piloting that we're getting nuked.

While different non-equivalent weapon such as RACs to UACs, MRMs to ATMs, etc. feels jarring, i never felt them as the table turner as the actual meta builds. If anything i laugh at the face of RAC users especially the RAC2 users, i'm still using the old meta laser-vomit builds and they work just as fine as before. I have yet to fall victim to an MRM. The ERML for the IS is a lot threatening though, especially with their laser vomits, but it really just feels like closing the tech gap more than jumping over it to OP-ness.

What i see right now is that there are either many good players over IS and/or many bad players on the Clans.

Jun Watarase, on 01 August 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

I can 100% guarantee you that if the new IS tech was junk, you wouldnt have big clan units going IS to "test them out"...because people would test them out in quick play, come to the conclusion that they are junk, and not bother changing sides in FP to "test them out".

I don't know man. QP is a different experience than FP, so it really makes sense to try the new tech on FP separately from QP.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 01 August 2017 - 07:15 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 01 August 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Cross faction balance should be taken from comp league, than CW.

If we're taking faction vs faction balance from comp then comp would have to be faction vs faction, but its not.

[Jun Watarase]

The6thMessenger, on 01 August 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, i've played my fair share of CW. I have won and lost against IS, even despite the new tech.

IMHO, it's more of coordination + skill than actual tech really, it's just lots of idiots on both sides even large premade one-unit groups are sometimes stupid. Sometimes even when coordinated, pilots sometimes still suck piloting that we're getting nuked.

While different non-equivalent weapon such as RACs to UACs, MRMs to ATMs, etc. feels jarring, i never felt them as the table turner as the actual meta builds. If anything i laugh at the face of RAC users especially the RAC2 users, i'm still using the old meta laser-vomit builds and they work just as fine as before. I have yet to fall victim to an MRM. The ERML for the IS is a lot threatening though, especially with their laser vomits, but it really just feels like closing the tech gap more than jumping over it to OP-ness.

What i see right now is that there are either many good players over IS and/or many bad players on the Clans.



I don't know man. QP is a different experience than FP, so it really makes sense to try the new tech on FP separately from QP.

While true to a certain extent, you will notice that nobody is saying that big IS units went clan to test the new clan stuff, probably because very few did.

And even the ones who went IS to "test" the new IS tech are still boating pulses, UACs or RACs. Because they arent even bothering to test stuff like LBX-2s.

[Athom83]

The mercs are always the largest factor in FW. Right now most of them have a Merik contract. When they get a better clan one it will again swing back around.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 01 August 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

If we're taking faction vs faction balance from comp then comp would have to be faction vs faction, but its not.

Comp has good indication of good mechs per side. If comp teams are running both sides' mechs about 50-50 ratio on all class, then that's close to balanced. CW is at the mercy of Mercs--in this case, they wish to try out new tech.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 August 2017 - 07:33 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Dakota1000, on 01 August 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

If we're taking faction vs faction balance from comp then comp would have to be faction vs faction, but its not.

Not necessarily. You look at which 'Mechs get taken the most and are won with the most.

MWOWC17 would actually be the best place for them to gather balance telemetry.

[Valhallan]

[First off i will say comp is better than FP due to bandwagon brigade messing things up, now then] Ok first off those stats mean bupkis for balance, y'know why? because there is NOTHING at stake. If PGI pulls another Tuk and the people are still stacking IS and pulling off wins then you have something, otherwise people stacking means bupkis for balance. People are testing the IS tech more than clan because the IS tech is actually NEW and FUN (RAC/MRM) the clan nu-tech is just lrm2.0 and laser2.0, boring as hell.

[Carl Vickers]

Jun Watarase, on 01 August 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

While true to a certain extent, you will notice that nobody is saying that big IS units went clan to test the new clan stuff, probably because very few did.

And even the ones who went IS to "test" the new IS tech are still boating pulses, UACs or RACs. Because they arent even bothering to test stuff like LBX-2s.

A/ Clans got less new tech than IS did
B/ dont need to test to know the lbx-2 is still junk, it is junk in Clans so why would the IS version be any less junk.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am all for balance but I am absolutely sick and tired of nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf every damn time we see patch notes.

If the Clans are under performing, time to un-nerf them and bring them back up, not bring the IS down. I want a POSITIVE game play experience, not be all frustrated and pissed off because my favorite mech just got turned to crap in the name of balance.