114 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Jun Watarase, on 01 August 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

While true to a certain extent, you will notice that nobody is saying that big IS units went clan to test the new clan stuff, probably because very few did.

Why would I care whether they do? What you said was "if IS tech was junk", putting focus on the IS tech, and I just responded as such. Let's read that again:

The6thMessenger, on 01 August 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Jun Watarase, on 01 August 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

I can 100% guarantee you that if the new IS tech was junk, you wouldnt have big clan units going IS to "test them out"...because people would test them out in quick play, come to the conclusion that they are junk, and not bother changing sides in FP to "test them out".

I don't know man. QP is a different experience than FP, so it really makes sense to try the new tech on FP separately from QP.

Do you know what that means? I am dubious whether it really means that IS tech isn't junk, because i am disagreeing that FP is a simmilar environment as QP.

Besides, most of the interesting tech is on the other side. The RAC needs some work, but it is nonetheless a completely different experience, versus some shorter range longer duration heavier damage laser, some low-tube low ballistic trajectory missile, etc.

[Mcgral18]

Viktor Drake, on 01 August 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

I am all for balance but I am absolutely sick and tired of nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf every damn time we see patch notes.

If the Clans are under performing, time to un-nerf them and bring them back up, not bring the IS down. I want a POSITIVE game play experience, not be all frustrated and pissed off because my favorite mech just got turned to crap in the name of balance.

Clams are most certainly not underperforming
No need to worry there

[GA1NAX]

All Clams need is:

C-DHS must dispense 0.3 instead of 0.15., and reach total of 2.0hps instead of 1.5hps.
C-ERPPC 15 DMG/ 15 Heat
And make that MASC block on EXE to be removeable!!!

That "buff" will solve an 80% of Clams problems.

Edited by GA1NAX, 01 August 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[Mcgral18]

GA1NAX, on 01 August 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

All Clams need is:

C-DHS must dispense 0.3 instead of 0.15., and reach total of 2.0hps instead of 1.5hps.
C-ERPPC 15 DMG/ 15 Heat
And make that MASC block on EXE to be removeable!!!

That "buff" will solve an 80% of Clams problems.

...how about no

[Battlemaster56]

GA1NAX, on 01 August 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

All Clams need is:

C-DHS must dispense 0.3 instead of 0.15., and reach total of 2.0hps instead of 1.5hps.
C-ERPPC 15 DMG/ 15 Heat
And make that MASC block on EXE to be removeable!!!

That "buff" will solve an 80% of Clams problems.

What bout fix Timberwolf agailty and remove the negative quirks on A LT and S RT. And give the Dire Wolf 65% of the annihilator's armor quirks.

And unnerf every KDK that not pedobear #3.

[Y E O N N E]

GA1NAX, on 01 August 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

All Clams need is:

C-DHS must dispense 0.3 instead of 0.15., and reach total of 2.0hps instead of 1.5hps.
C-ERPPC 15 DMG/ 15 Heat
And make that MASC block on EXE to be removeable!!!

That "buff" will solve an 80% of Clams problems.

Pass the pipe!

[Requiemking]

Battlemaster56, on 01 August 2017 - 10:26 PM, said:

What bout fix Timberwolf agailty and remove the negative quirks on A LT and S RT. And give the Dire Wolf 65% of the annihilator's armor quirks.

And unnerf every KDK that not pedobear #3.

Even then, a lot of the KDK 3's "OPness" came from potatoes trying to facetank a 100 ton mech and failing badly because of it.

[GA1NAX]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 August 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Pass the pipe!

You shall not pass

Battlemaster56, on 01 August 2017 - 10:26 PM, said:

What bout fix Timberwolf agailty and remove the negative quirks on A LT and S RT. And give the Dire Wolf 65% of the annihilator's armor quirks.

And unnerf every KDK that not pedobear #3.

It does much more that you think. Like nerfs the armour quirks by heaving less heat and allowing to throw one more alpha into enemies face.
90% would not ready to understand some things.

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

...how about no

How about... bringing back C-ERPPC where it belongs?

[LordNothing]

either the is finally has the tools to win or there was a major slide of the better units from one side to the other. either way i think its time to close the tonnage gap (which pgi is planning to do post event), it was always too wide imho, encouraging players to double up on assault mechs. we might have found the balance point.

[Carl Vickers]

LordNothing, on 01 August 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

either the is finally has the tools to win or there was a major slide of the better units from one side to the other. either way i think its time to close the tonnage gap (which pgi is planning to do post event), it was always too wide imho, encouraging players to double up on assault mechs. we might have found the balance point.

Its real close, IS XL still needs to be normalized to bring it even closer, LFE is ok but still doesnt hold a candle to CXL.

[Lily from animove]

so many orange wins, must be wolf, and the blue so few, must be steiner.

[Battlemaster56]

Requiemking, on 01 August 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Even then, a lot of the KDK 3's "OPness" came from potatoes trying to facetank a 100 ton mech and failing badly because of it.

I know potatoes will still do potato things, it sad it's part of the reason I can't enjoy my Spirit Bear as much as I used to but atleast got my Scorch and Mad cat MK II that can bring a similar build with more firepower.

[Zergling]

GA1NAX, on 01 August 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

C-DHS must dispense 0.3 instead of 0.15.

Yes, lets turn Clan double heatsinks into triple heatsinks.

That surely won't totally break game balance /sarcasm.

[Ryllen Kriel]

So...you took statistics for one day for approximately one hour and this is supposed to represent all the data to prove your argument? Poor data, underwhelming data and inconclusive evidence.


The new tech made Inner Sphere and Clans closer and competitive finally after two long years of a terrible slog. But this takes nothing into account about mercs switching sides to experiment with the new tech, which units are on at any giving hour of the day or which day certain units play most. I can post lop-sided statistics as well that heavily favour the Clans in one hour of any given day. Balance isn't too bad right now, in some ways it's better than it has ever been.

[Sjorpha]

The new tech is a slight improvement, most of it isn't better than the old tech though. Balance wise I don't feel it's a huge change, and Clan vs IS power ton for ton still favors Clan quite a bit same as before.

The new tech is a lot of fun to play around with though, and it's great to have more options. FP stats show Units wanting to play around with the new stuff, units play for fun too you know.

I have sort of resigned to the fact that PGI apparently wants to keep Clan tech strictly superior, they didn't take the civil war update as an opportunity to balance the tech and I doubt they will in the future either. Seems we're stuck with strictly inferior IS equipment and unevenly distributed quirks randomly making or breaking IS chassis. It's a bit sad but I can live with it.

Also the greatest buff introduced with the new tech seems to actually be on the clan side, HLL emerging as a new enabler of huge gauss vomit alphas when paired with ERML. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the most significant impact at the comp level, which is ironic as hell given that this update was touted as "closing the gap" and supposed to give IS a buff, and so many people including me failed to see the potential of HLL.

Edited by Sjorpha, 02 August 2017 - 03:52 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

The6thMessenger, on 01 August 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Why would I care whether they do? What you said was "if IS tech was junk", putting focus on the IS tech, and I just responded as such. Let's read that again:



Do you know what that means? I am dubious whether it really means that IS tech isn't junk, because i am disagreeing that FP is a simmilar environment as QP.

Besides, most of the interesting tech is on the other side. The RAC needs some work, but it is nonetheless a completely different experience, versus some shorter range longer duration heavier damage laser, some low-tube low ballistic trajectory missile, etc.

I dont think you understand...i was saying that if the new IS tech was junk people wouldnt bother goinG is TO test the new tech.

Its pretty obvious when you look at how no or few units went clan to test the new clan tech.

They are all stacking IS side now for obvious reasons. If IS was massively underpowered, they wouldnt be stacking the underpowered side for the same reason that they dont use 100% underpowered mechs in their drop decks. Or the fact that you dont see them stacking the clan side now. The tonnage disparity allowing them to spam heavies/assaults with massive durability quirks doesnt help either.

In every game, its the same. The majority of guilds/clans/teams/whatever always use the most OP options available. In Warhammer online, the oceanic server had the order side outnumbered by 4 times for the same reason, because the disorder side had more OP classes (and better art in general).

[Lily from animove]

Jun Watarase, on 02 August 2017 - 05:11 AM, said:

I dont think you understand...i was saying that if the new IS tech was junk people wouldnt bother goinG is TO test the new tech.

Its pretty obvious when you look at how no or few units went clan to test the new clan tech.

They are all stacking IS side now for obvious reasons. If IS was massively underpowered, they wouldnt be stacking the underpowered side for the same reason that they dont use 100% underpowered mechs in their drop decks. Or the fact that you dont see them stacking the clan side now. The tonnage disparity allowing them to spam heavies/assaults with massive durability quirks doesnt help either.

In every game, its the same. The majority of guilds/clans/teams/whatever always use the most OP options available. In Warhammer online, the oceanic server had the order side outnumbered by 4 times for the same reason, because the disorder side had more OP classes (and better art in general).

pfffft, no chance that disorder had better art, all they had were some more booby flashs thats all.But a properly made beardy shieldwall, that was the end off all attackers days

But somehow as the maisnrtream considerartion towards MMO's tanks and healers are boring (especially tanking in PvP was considered to be useless). And so they failed to undertsand the opness of a proper Ironbreaker fortified gate. When you had a proper group going this was like way too op at all. and here in MWO thats the same, load sof people not knowing what the proper wiorking things are slapping stuff on mechs doing something for the sake of doing something. But they don't know what they need nor how to play that correctly even. And so things fail so hard, until the big mercs that at leats know what they do go on a specific side and flip the table. It's not only the mercs size doing the difference, it is also their knowledge about at leats not beeing derp.

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 August 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Jun Watarase, on 02 August 2017 - 05:11 AM, said:

I dont think you understand...i was saying that if the new IS tech was junk people wouldnt bother going is TO test the new tech.

And my response was that FP environment is different than QP, therefore it still makes sense for them to test it on FP. How hard is that to understand?

[Ghogiel]

El Bandito, on 01 August 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Cross faction balance should be taken from comp league, than CW.

El Bandito, on 01 August 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Comp has good indication of good mechs per side. If comp teams are running both sides' mechs about 50-50 ratio on all class, then that's close to balanced. CW is at the mercy of Mercs--in this case, they wish to try out new tech.

I kind of disagree. This is akin to the failing of spreadsheet warriors not understanding the live environment. If for example people are always bring WLFs to make up the IS tech base, the "math" might look ok but when like 20% of the IS mechs are made up of the weakest class in the game (though probably the 2nd most important in comp) any idea of balanced spread would be totally a red herring.

this all relies on what mechs are being brought, the game mode being played, and why, A simple even ratio of 50-50 is not much to do with faction balances imo.

Edited by Ghogiel, 02 August 2017 - 06:02 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Viktor Drake, on 01 August 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

I am all for balance but I am absolutely sick and tired of nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf every damn time we see patch notes.

If the Clans are under performing, time to un-nerf them and bring them back up, not bring the IS down. I want a POSITIVE game play experience, not be all frustrated and pissed off because my favorite mech just got turned to crap in the name of balance.

Buffing stuff does not neccesarily mean a better play experience. Sure, it sounds nice: "X is better", certainly nicer than "X is worse now".

But the end result of buffing can mean more damage output, shorter time to kill, brawling builds might become less viable since the combat is already decided at range, less forgiveness for errors, more snowballing...

The challenge with balance is that it's never just about things being balanced, it's also about the gameplay that is feeling right and interesting.