34 replies to this topic

[Peace2U]

I must admit a rookie mistake.
When the new tech came out, I was stoked about the IS UAC additions.
I reviewed the specs and discovered that the UAC/10 provided 40 shots per ton (raised eyebrow), so I broke out some c-bills and bought a couple.
Seemed like a good investment (40 shots X 10 damage = 400 damage per ton)
Felt like Christmas.
Until - - - I took my new shiny UAC/10's out to play.
Turns out that each trigger pull did 10 damage (as expected) but consumed 2 'shots'.
Therefore the ammo was truly 1/2 of what is posted.
--
And yes, I knew the gun was going to fire multiple rounds.
I assumed it was designed like the Clanner versions so the damage might be spread out (possibly hitting two areas on the target instead of focusing on a single area of damage)
--
A single shot should be equal to the damage rating of the weapon - or am I wrong?
These specs are misleading because the UAC 5 gives 30 shots per ton, and each shot (trigger pull) does 5 damage.
I should have known there was a snake in the woodpile when I saw 40 shots per ton for the UAC/10.
--
Trusting PGI - Rookie mistake.

Happy Meching
Peace-All

[Matthew Ace]

In this case, shots per ton equates number of rounds instead of trigger pull, just like how you have 180 missiles for LRM ammo. The same applies to the Clan UACs.

[StealthdragonB]

No the ammo is meant to be like that, if you look at the ammo for the regular AC 10, which is 20 shots per ton and fires single slugs of 10 damage and compare it to that of the UAC 10 which is 40 shots per ton but it fires in a burst of two 5 damage shots which equates to 10 damage in total, both weapons deal identical damage with a single pull of the trigger and both have the same damage per ton in terms of ammo.

[Athom83]

StealthdragonB, on 02 August 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

No the ammo is meant to be like that, if you look at the ammo for the regular AC 10, which is 20 shots per ton and fires single slugs of 10 damage and compare it to that of the UAC 10 which is 40 shots per ton but it fires in a burst of two 5 damage shots which equates to 10 damage in total, both weapons deal identical damage with a single pull of the trigger and both have the same damage per ton in terms of ammo.

THink about this for a second; UAC/10 ammo racks carry 40 5 damage shots in a single ton, while AC/5 and UAC/5 carry 30 5 damage shots in a single ton. How does that work?

[Widowmaker1981]

What you SHOULD have done, OP, is think

"hmmm, maybe im missing something, 400 dmg per ton is ridiculous, considering every single other ammo based weapon has dmg/ton in the 140-230 range..."

what you were missing is that, like all the Clan ACs, the IS UAC10 fire multiple shells to make up its rated damage number and, like all the multiple-shot-per-trigger-pull weapons, has an ammo count that represents each individual shell.

[Widowmaker1981]

Athom83, on 02 August 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

THink about this for a second; UAC/10 ammo racks carry 40 5 damage shots in a single ton, while AC/5 and UAC/5 carry 30 5 damage shots in a single ton. How does that work?

Its PGIs way of giving 10 class ACs a sneaky tonnage buff without actually reducing the tonnage of the weapons...

[Metus regem]

Athom83, on 02 August 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

THink about this for a second; UAC/10 ammo racks carry 40 5 damage shots in a single ton, while AC/5 and UAC/5 carry 30 5 damage shots in a single ton. How does that work?

Different sized shells?

In lore AC/10's range in size from 90mm to 180mm. AC/5's range in size from 75mm to 120mm... Also in lore 90% of all AC/s use an ammo cassette, each trigger pull burns through one cassette, most famously of these cassette is the Pontiac 100 found on the Victor, it fires a burst of 100 30mm shells in usage of an ammo cassette, it gets five of those cassettes per ton.

[Escef]

Guessing you've never used Clan UACs before, because their ammo counts are done the EXACT same way. Ammo counts for UACs are by the shell, and burst fire cannons means each trigger pull uses multiple shells. It's not the most intuitive way to do it, no. But they have been consistent with this.

[Wildstreak]

Peace2U, on 02 August 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

Turns out that each trigger pull did 10 damage (as expected) but consumed 2 'shots'.
Therefore the ammo was truly 1/2 of what is posted.

Been this way since Clan UACs/ACs.
Same for IS UAC20 that fires 3x per pull so ammo shows 3x.

[Pjwned]

Athom83, on 02 August 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

THink about this for a second; UAC/10 ammo racks carry 40 5 damage shots in a single ton, while AC/5 and UAC/5 carry 30 5 damage shots in a single ton. How does that work?

AC10 also has 20 shots that do 10 damage.

It's just a way of making AC10 better by giving it better than normal ammo per ton, which is actually pretty dumb because ammo per ton should be more consistent and other ACs should have similarly good ammo per ton, but that's how it is.

[Tarl Cabot]

PGI simplified as much as they could possibly get away with. Tis the same reason MWO engine weight is not BT engine weight. MWO engine weight includes not just the engine (minus free heatsinks for total 10 engine HS for engines under 250 rating) but the gyro (engine rating/100) and cockpit (3-tons).

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 August 2017 - 02:52 PM.

[naterist]

pgi didnt do it wrong, but i am curious why it cant be 20 shots, and each "shot" in the shot counter is 2 projectiles burst fired.

lets start a petition for ammo to show the ammount of trigger pulls left, instead of doubleing, tripling, or quadrupling the ammo to represent the burst fire mechanic. just tell us how many trigger pulls left. please.....

[StealthdragonB]

naterist, on 02 August 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

pgi didnt do it wrong, but i am curious why it cant be 20 shots, and each "shot" in the shot counter is 2 projectiles burst fired.

lets start a petition for ammo to show the ammount of trigger pulls left, instead of doubleing, tripling, or quadrupling the ammo to represent the burst fire mechanic. just tell us how many trigger pulls left. please.....

Well one of the issues of that is it can make using some types of ammo slightly less or more efficient as not all of them are broken into full bursts, half a ton of C AC 20 ammo is not 3 bursts, but 3 and a half bursts.

[evilauthor]

Tarl Cabot, on 02 August 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

PGI simplified as much as they could possibly get away with. Tis the same reason MWO engine weight is not BT engine weight. MWO engine weight includes not just the engine (minus free heatsinks for total 10 engine HS for engines under 250 rating) but the gyro (engine rating/100) and cockpit (3-tons).

Actually, the last should be "head", not "cockpit". The Head of mech includes the cockpit, but also separate life support equipment as well as sensors.

[Tarl Cabot]

evilauthor, on 02 August 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Actually, the last should be "head", not "cockpit". The Head of mech includes the cockpit, but also separate life support equipment as well as sensors.

iie. cockpit for the TT includes all of those items, per every manual there is.

Quote

Every BattleMech must have a cockpit, which contains the MechWarrior’s control station, life-support system and electronic
sensors.

[Peace2U]

Thanks to everyone who commented on this post.
I must agree with 'naterist', however.
There should be consistency in ammo listings.
'Shots' should be equal to 'trigger pulls' in all cases.
PGI, if your listening, please re-do the math display on ammo so it is not so misleading.

Peace-all

[Andi Nagasia]

Peace2U, on 12 August 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Thanks to everyone who commented on this post.
I must agree with 'naterist', however.
There should be consistency in ammo listings.
'Shots' should be equal to 'trigger pulls' in all cases.
PGI, if your listening, please re-do the math display on ammo so it is not so misleading.

Peace-all

im ganna have to say no, Ammo isnt by Shots its by Ammo(Shells/Missiles),
having it chanced to Shots will cause many more problems, and make it harder to read,

think of LRM ammo,
you have 180 per Ton, now lets say you have a LRM 20 & 2LRM15,
you know you have 3.5ish shots per Ton at just a Glance in the Mech Lab,
in game it displays 180, no Change and its easy to follow,

now lets say its by Shots,
LRM ammo has 9/12/18/36 shots now, a LRM 20 & 2LRM15,
at a Glance how many shots do you have firing all 3 launchers?
how much more do you have to think on it in game to find out?

this is why i feel it should stay as is,
because i can look at SRM/LRM/MRM/ATM ammo and know just how many times i can fire,
i dont have to do much math, and in combat i can glance and know where i stand when pairing launchers,

[Lucifaust]

Lol, oh sweet little IS pugtato. This is how clan AC goes. I wonder if half the IS players who say clan is op, have ever tried clan ballistics, or clan mechs in general.

I would love to use IS ballistics on my clan mechs. But anyway, the math seems off, but in the end UAC equals regular AC in weight/damage.

[Angel of Annihilation]

naterist, on 02 August 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

pgi didnt do it wrong, but i am curious why it cant be 20 shots, and each "shot" in the shot counter is 2 projectiles burst fired.

lets start a petition for ammo to show the ammount of trigger pulls left, instead of doubleing, tripling, or quadrupling the ammo to represent the burst fire mechanic. just tell us how many trigger pulls left. please.....

Honestly I see what you mean. It would be much easier to know that you could pull the trigger 20 times rather than having 60 shells and having to do the math to determine how much more you could fire.

[Peace2U]

I guess my real concern is, do you folks think 'shots' should be equal to 'trigger pulls', and if so should PGI adjust their ammo display numbers accordingly?
Please forgive me for over simplifying this issue, as my question is not about damage per shot but simply a more uniform numbering system 1 shot = 1 trigger pull.

My gratitude to all who posted.
There were some very interesting angles that some people brought up and I did learn a few things.

Peace