34 replies to this topic

[SPNKRGrenth]

I fail to understand the problem here. You get the same damage per ton worth of ammo as a normal AC 10. I can agree that the ammo should be saying how many times you can fire instead of how many rounds there are to fire, but that creates its own complications and problems.

[qS Sachiel]

naterist, on 02 August 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

pgi didnt do it wrong, but i am curious why it cant be 20 shots, and each "shot" in the shot counter is 2 projectiles burst fired.

lets start a petition for ammo to show the ammount of trigger pulls left, instead of doubleing, tripling, or quadrupling the ammo to represent the burst fire mechanic. just tell us how many trigger pulls left. please.....

I do hope this is sarcasm though...
My assassin runs 4xsrm4. I come out of the box with 480missiles

480/16 =\= 480/4.
How do you expect the game to know if I intend to fire alphas, or chain?

As the mod said, to provide number of trigger pulls is cumbersome, confusing, and a draw on processing power. If all possible combinations of salvo are available then clutter effect occurs (x/y/z shots remaining on combination a/b/c grouping. Or the computer has to continually calculate how many you're firing, hoe many weapons are still online, and come up with a shifting expected salvo remaining... Just dumb.

Calculate yourself in the meh lab, and when in game you should have an idea how many rounds remain and be able to divide that by your weapons*salvo... I shouldn't be an issue or you anyway until Betty tells you 25% ammo remains.

Edited by qS Sachiel, 06 September 2017 - 05:21 PM.

[InfinityBall]

edit: deleted

Edited by InfinityBall, 06 September 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 August 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

im ganna have to say no, Ammo isnt by Shots its by Ammo(Shells/Missiles),
having it chanced to Shots will cause many more problems, and make it harder to read,

think of LRM ammo,
you have 180 per Ton, now lets say you have a LRM 20 & 2LRM15,
you know you have 3.5ish shots per Ton at just a Glance in the Mech Lab,
in game it displays 180, no Change and its easy to follow,

now lets say its by Shots,
LRM ammo has 9/12/18/36 shots now, a LRM 20 & 2LRM15,
at a Glance how many shots do you have firing all 3 launchers?
how much more do you have to think on it in game to find out?

this is why i feel it should stay as is,
because i can look at SRM/LRM/MRM/ATM ammo and know just how many times i can fire,
i dont have to do much math, and in combat i can glance and know where i stand when pairing launchers,

Missiles are distinct from ballistic weapons because different sized launchers use up ammunition at different rates and all draw from the same pool of missile ammo on a mech. It makes sense to display missile ammo as total number of missiles left instead of the number of salvos left per launcher.

This is not the case with autocannons. A UAC20 will always fire off 3 projectiles per trigger pull. There is no differently-sized UAC20 that shoots 2 projectiles or 4. In this case it is totally appropriate to display UAC20 ammo as individual trigger pulls, as there is no situation in which one pull of the trigger will only fire 2 projectiles or fire extras, unless you start giving individual rounds in a burst the chance to jam the weapon.

[qS Sachiel]

No.

Some missile bins fire lrms in salvos too (where ten tubes available, lrm 20 is 2x salvo of 10). That uac always behave The same way regardless of mech is irrelevant.

The only problem here is that someone was unaware of the behaviour of the weapon. No change needed just use your brain and chalk it up to post consumer remorse.

Name me 1 shooter out there that doesn't show 30 or 20 round magazines for the m16 vs 10 or 6.66666666666666666666666 salvos respectively.

Edited by qS Sachiel, 06 September 2017 - 10:23 PM.

[Peace2U]

OK, Guys, I give up.
Let's leave things as they are. (Lord forbid we rock the boat)
The only people who would be affected (feel cheated) would be new players who do not understand the difference between shots = trigger pulls vs shots = potential damage per trigger pull.
Is there any way that PGI can flag the ammo in the mech bay to indicate this variation in the numbering strategy?
So that when a player purchases a ton of ammo with a 40 count, for example, they will know it will only do 20 damage (or trigger pulls)

[Escef]

Peace2U, on 16 September 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

OK, Guys, I give up.
Let's leave things as they are. (Lord forbid we rock the boat)
The only people who would be affected (feel cheated) would be new players who do not understand the difference between shots = trigger pulls vs shots = potential damage per trigger pull.
Is there any way that PGI can flag the ammo in the mech bay to indicate this variation in the numbering strategy?
So that when a player purchases a ton of ammo with a 40 count, for example, they will know it will only do 20 damage (or trigger pulls)

Given that this is literally the first and only thread I've ever seen on this topic? I'd say this can't be much of a problem. Clan (U)ACs have worked this way since they hit the game, and no one ever had a problem with it. You're account is 3 1/2, almost 4, years old, and you just noticed last month that burst fire cannons don't track ammo by trigger pull, but by the shell?

[GoatHILL]

qS Sachiel, on 06 September 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

Name me 1 shooter out there that doesn't show 30 or 20 round magazines for the m16 vs 10 or 6.66666666666666666666666 salvos respectively.

Right I've played other shooters where weapons fired 2 or 3 rounds bursts. They show how many rounds I have 30. Not 10 bursts of 3.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 September 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

This is not the case with autocannons. A UAC20 will always fire off 3 projectiles per trigger pull. There is no differently-sized UAC20 that shoots 2 projectiles or 4. In this case it is totally appropriate to display UAC20 ammo as individual trigger pulls, as there is no situation in which one pull of the trigger will only fire 2 projectiles or fire extras, unless you start giving individual rounds in a burst the chance to jam the weapon.

So if you have more than 1 UAC20 equipped, then what?

Does the system assume a trigger pull is 1 weapon firing, or all of them?

The current system is the most sensible, no need to fix what isn't broken.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 September 2017 - 03:49 AM, said:

So if you have more than 1 UAC20 equipped, then what?

Does the system assume a trigger pull is 1 weapon firing, or all of them?

The current system is the most sensible, no need to fix what isn't broken.

1 weapon firing, obviously. 2 UAC20s with 1 ton of ammo should read as having 7 shots, like the LB-20-X and standard AC20. It's far more sensible to display the number of times you can fire the weapon, not the number of bullets that will come out.

It's far easier to tell at a glance how many shots you have left with a weapon if the ammo display simply told you, instead of having to divide that number by 2, 3, or 4.

[Andi Nagasia]

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 September 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

1 weapon firing, obviously. 2 UAC20s with 1 ton of ammo should read as having 7 shots, like the LB-20-X and standard AC20. It's far more sensible to display the number of times you can fire the weapon, not the number of bullets that will come out.

It's far easier to tell at a glance how many shots you have left with a weapon if the ammo display simply told you, instead of having to divide that number by 2, 3, or 4.

but then how to you calculate for weapons like LRMs, SRMs, SSRMs, ATMs, MRMs, and eventually HAGs?
if you have a mix of 5 & 10s would they shot 32Shots per ton, or 18Shots per ton?

personally i feel the way we have it now works best, as it makes more sense,
weapons are always ammo by how many bullets they have, never by how many shots,
(see above FPS with 3ShpotBurst weapon(BF or COD M93R is another good example)

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Well, I guess it COULD ALSO show the number of trigger pulls for different weapons on the ammo info table in the mechlab, but in the match it should stay as it is.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 18 September 2017 - 07:06 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 September 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

It's far easier to tell at a glance how many shots you have left with a weapon if the ammo display simply told you, instead of having to divide that number by 2, 3, or 4.

Except it's the same situation if it tells you how many shots you have for 1 weapon, but have 2, 3 or 4 equipped. So why waste resources when nothing really changes, except for builds which don't boat weapons?

[Athom83]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 18 September 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

Well, I guess it COULD ALSO show the number of trigger pulls for different weapons on the ammo info table in the mechlab, but in the match it should stay as it is.

Rather; show in the mechlab how many bullets will fire from weapons per trigger pull. (IS UAC/20 = 3, Clan UAC/20 = 4, etc)

[Kaeb Odellas]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 September 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

but then how to you calculate for weapons like LRMs, SRMs, SSRMs, ATMs, MRMs, and eventually HAGs?
if you have a mix of 5 & 10s would they shot 32Shots per ton, or 18Shots per ton?

personally i feel the way we have it now works best, as it makes more sense,
weapons are always ammo by how many bullets they have, never by how many shots,
(see above FPS with 3ShpotBurst weapon(BF or COD M93R is another good example)

Missiles remain as they are since # of tubes changes the rate at which missiles are consumed. Autocannons, however, always consume ammo at the same rate, unless they start letting UACs jam mid-burst, which could be interesting.

I'm not sure how HAGs work. Do different sized guns all use the same ammo?

Jay Leon Hart, on 18 September 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Except it's the same situation if it tells you how many shots you have for 1 weapon, but have 2, 3 or 4 equipped. So why waste resources when nothing really changes, except for builds which don't boat weapons?

It doesn't eliminate the mental math required when using multiple guns, but it does reduce it. For the 6 UAC5 Direwolf, for example, you'd only have to divide your ammo by 6, instead of 12. For an individual UAC20 or C-UAC10, you wouldn't have to do any math at all.

Resource-wise, it wouldn't be a particularly complicated change to make. The code would actually be marginally more efficient to run, as it only has to decrement ammo once per gun's firing cycle, not twice, thrice, or 4 times as it currently does.