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View Of A 6-Month Away Returning Player


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#1 Honiara

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 06:54 AM

FYI, this turned out to be a much longer than anticipated post... Sorry

So after having a 6 month break from MWO, I have returned after the Civil War update to hopefully find a new immersive game, unfortunately the below is actually what I have observed since by return.

Where appropriate I have made a few quick suggestions on how to fix/resolve some of the glaring issues. Please remember that these are my observations and are subject to my point of view. You can disagree with all or some of the below which is fine.

A little bit of background before I continue, this is so the readers / PGI know what these views are based on. I have played MWO since beta, with a few periods of absence. I have spent well over £1000 on this game in that time, I'm not a whale but I have spent a considerable about of money on this game. I have played in many of the top teams for RHoD and MRBC. I play both Quick Play and Faction Play. My favorite 'mech types are medium and heavy, I dislike both the light and assault 'mechs for either lack of firepower or lack of survive-ability. Therefore all but a handful of my 'mechs are within the 40 > 75 tonne weight limits. This is true of both Clan and IS. I have a total of 38 hero/special mechs with a +30% C-bill bonus.


Balance:
Balance is not bad at the moment on a tonne-for-tonne basis, of course there are some out liers both on Clan and IS, in all weight categories but overall it's not too bad. The issue is now that IS has 265 tonnes vs 240 tonnes on Clan for FW, even up the tonnage and see what happens, which according to Russ's Twitter is going to be happening at least to an extent. *Cough* 2 years of Clan OP, vs 2 weeks of IS OP *Cough*

TTK:
Time-to-kill seems to have gone up (takes longer to kill) probably due to the new skill trees allowing mechs to get an additional 20% armor and 30% structure (approximately). This in my mind is a good thing as getting insta-killed in any game is boring.

PPFLD vs Brawl:
It's nice to see that PPFLD has been significantly reduced, likely due to the PPC/Gauss heat scaling penalty. This brings with it a much more mixed up game play at least in QP and FW (I have not played any competitive since my return).

Modules:
Before my absence, I was expecting 800+ million in refunded C-bills for my modules as the developers had stated

Quote

You will receive a full C-Bill refund for all Modules present in your inventory at the time of the February patch


So I, like many other purchased several hundred million C-bills worth of modules just to find on my return I have not received a refund I have actually been granted these additional skill points. So well done PGI for strait up lying to your customers, this is not good and immediately gave me a less than exited feel to returning to your game. If these were not digital goods and in fact goods purchased with real money you would have been issuing an observed amount of refunds.

Skill Points:
This leads nicely onto Skill Points, or more specifically 'General Skill Points' that I now have 13000, what am I going to do with these? I already have 91 HSP on every mech I own, so what are GSP for? the only think I can see is that I can use the to skill up new 'mechs other than that their useless. On top of this mess, I also have 880,000 GXP what is the point in these? yes I can convert them to 'Skill Points' at the cost of C-Bills, but as I have 13,000 GSP these seem completely worthless. Then there is HSP, as with the GXP what is the point in these? Another worthless currency for a long term player. The UI is so bad at converting and explaining all these various different SP/HSP/GSP/XP/GXP/HXP, hell that's 6 soft currencies for a single game, talk about overly confusing, not even including the C-bills and MC, a whopping 8 types of currency!

Skill Tree:
While I disliked the original skill tree for it's lack of any kind of diversity, I feel the new skill tree is in the same boat. Yes there seems like their are choices at first glance, but I also find myself with the same skill points allowance on all my laser mechs, or the same skills for my ballistic mechs with very few amendments (e.g AC over UAC). Not really a choice I feel.

The ability to actually allocate points is also rather clunky, half the time actually clicking on a 'node' does not even acknowledge that I have actually clicked that node, and when re-skilling a 'mech if I accidentally go over my current XP for that 'mech I cannot save my changes and there is no way of the UI telling me which new nodes I have selected to pay for with XP, so I then have to 'Revert Changes' and start all over again.

C-Bills:
With the refund of the modules I had purchased prior to the false announcement that all my modules would be credited, I still had 200+ million worth of modules refunded to me, this has now granted me with a rather reasonable sum of c-bills. This is great I can now spend this money on civil war tech, or can I? Looking at any mech that had an XL engine, most can either be converted to a LFE, where I can sell the XL and that basically covers the cost of the LFE, or they stay as a XL (looking at your Bushwacker) yes I can purchase some ERML to replace some ML if I have the heat available, or I can change a few weapons and or FF/LFF but these later changes really don't cost that much.

'Mechs that had Standard engines can be converted to LFE (crit space allowing) but as these engines are relatively inexpensive (when you take into account the sale value of the Standard Engine). I have found my self rebuilding over 30 of my IS 'mechs and I still a considerable amount of C-bills left, more than enough to change my entire Clan 'mechs (no new engines required) and still have tens of millions to spare.

'Mech Bays:
With the new skill tree, there was at least 1 good part, this is the ability to not have to purchase 3 'mechs just to elite one, this is great, I can stop worrying about leveling up the rubbish variants (of which there are several), and just concentrate on the 1 or 2 good variants per mech chassis.

So what does this mean for 'mech bays? well it means that due to my 6 month absence I needed a few new 'mechs as stated above I now have hundreds of millions of C-bills, so I can now instantly purchase any 'mech that I want, I can instantly skill it up using GSP and load it out as I want. This is great, but it also means that I don't need 'mech bays any more, currently sitting at 124/146. So no need to buy any more of these again then?

Keep in mind that that 124 'mechs that I currently own I still have a lot of rubbish that can simply be sold realistically I could be somewhere in the region of 90/146. Wooohoot I now have 56 free 'mech bays for 56 new/additional variants.

New 'Mechs:
So as outlined above I play the Medium and Heavy lines of 'mechs, I have every tonnage covered from 40 > 75 on both factions multiple times. I have all the good variants, and every unique style mech (e.g the laser, ballistic and missile variant of each chassis). I have all the 'mechs with the high torso mounted weapons, so I ask you PGI why would I want to purchase any new chassis? They are all the same, a high mounted torso laser is the same on a Thunderbolt as it is on the newer Roughneck, so why purchase the Roughneck? So not only do I no longer need 'mech bays, I also no longer need new 'mechs.

'Mech Packs:
With the removal of the "required 3 to master rule" and every weight covered on both sides of the war, along with having hundreds of millions of C-bills, why would I now purchase any of your packs? If a 'mech looks good, it's still not going to be something different to what is already in the game, therefor I can simply wait for the C-bill release as it's the 'same old' and as I don't have to purchase 3 'mechs and need no longer need an additional 3 'mech bays the value of your over priced 'mech packs is even further reduced. Any new 'mech will likely cost about me about 9 million C-bills to purchase and a few million to equip, which is either 1 or 2 nights of game play will cover these costs.

Premium Time:
I have several months worth of banked premium time, in the past I was an avid supported of 'always play with premium time' as the C-bill return was needed. Again with hundreds of millions of C-bills and 13000 GSP why would I ever need premium time again? I have not even bothered to activate my saved time as there is literally no point. A quick calculation you have managed to save me about £7-8 per month or £84-£96 per year. This also plays into the 'mech packs statement above, not needing premium time again further decreases the preserved value of any new 'mech pack.
  • Resolution: Unknown, PGI you have taken every reason to monetize this game away from me, and this should make you sleep badly at night, as no money from players like me will defiantly hurt your bottom line. PGI you need to give me a reason to pay for your game otherwise I'm going to be a F2P player until I get bored, and as a F2P that boredom threshold will come a lot quicker than previously.
Quick Play Games Modes:
Incursion: This plays like Assault 2.0 or Skirmish 2.0, why even introduce yet another mode that plays the same? When the game mode choice in QP comes available incursion is rarely picked over skirmish/assault (which play the same in my experience).

Escort: This game mode was released a few weeks before I stopped playing, yet again it's Skirmish, this mode is literally never picked with good reason.
  • Resolution: I can't see how to fix flawed game modes on flawed maps, either redesign the modes, or fix the maps.
Faction Play Game Modes:
Invasion Attack/Defend: This must be the worst mode in any game. As a defender your odds are stacked so heavily in your favor as you have the defensible position, as well as the defense turrets (not that these do much), this makes the assaulting team have a huge disadvantage, that the only reasonable way to win as an attacker is to ignore the defenders, run strait past them and kill the generators and Omega. This is NOT enticing game play as the attackers are literally running to kill an inanimate object (p.s I can do this in the training grounds). Add to this that on many of the maps it literally takes 5 minutes plus to actually get to the opposition it's just a horrendous play style and very boring, if I could drop from these game mode in FW and choose another I would every time.
  • Resolution: I personally think this game mode should ether be completely re-designed or perhaps just scrapped entirely.
Faction Play Drop Decks:
So I have all 4 available drop decks which is fine, but does not give a very broad style of play.
  • Resolution: Why can we not have different drop weights in each match (or perhaps each attack phase) within a limit from say 220 > 265 tonnes (a total of 10 different drop weights)? along with this you would be granted your allocated number of drop decks (4 in my case) per available drop weight (in this example 40 drop decks).
  • You are then automatically given a choice of your pre-defined or auto-generated drop decks for the appropriate drop weight and forcing players to play the exact weight (no under tonnage). This would at least make each drop feel a little different than the same ballistic deck that you run on all hot maps or ERLL/ERPPC deck on large cold maps, and allows you to dust off some additional 'mechs.
  • Perhaps limiting each individual 'mech to 1 drop deck. Forcing you to own more 'mechs and 'mech bays (in this example 4 drop decks, for 10 drop weights, and 4 mechs per drop deck forces people to own up o 160 mechs per faction).
Quick Play Maps and Modes: These play a lot better, specifically the Domination and Conquest game modes (bar a few maps) this is due mostly to the fact that you have to re-enforce rather than waiting for all 12 players to die and try again. Skirmish/Assault/Incursion end up being 12v12 x4.
  • Resolution: Objective style game play will never really work without re spawns, as killing 12 'mechs is almost always superior to map objectives, kill 1st and map objective 2nd. So enable re spawns by allowing the player to constantly select any mech from their drop deck for the role that you need at the re spawn timer and have the re spawns closer to objectives as they are capped (please see Arathi Basin in WoW for how conquest works and how objective game play trumps just killing)
Art / Maps:
So no new maps, and almost every 'mech has the wrong graphics for the new CW tech, what has your art team been doing since the announcement of Civil War? Poor showing considering the amount of time it has taken you to actually advance the time line.
  • Resolution: Make an AC20 or a UAC20 just that at AC20 or UAC20 and for these weapons be identical irreverent of the 'mech they are mounted on, then have the hard-points on the 'mechs be able to accept this weapon. (e.g every large ballistic hard-point should be the same) This way new weapons can easily be added with a single graphic this would also helps with immersion as it's silly that the same PPC on 2 different mechs look so different as barrel length and bore size as directly proportional to the range and speed of the projectile. If you were to limit some hard-points to weapon sizes (as per MW4) this could also help with the same of new 'mechs as hard-point sizes would be different therefor making different 'mechs actually feel different.
  • Although this is likely to be an impossible task now, but probably something worth considering for MWO2, some modifications may be needed for missile tube counts but a limited number of geometry hard-points would help you no end.


#2 Foxfire kadrpg

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:02 AM

This was well detailed and well written. I hope it reaches the attention of PGI.

#3 JC Daxion

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

Most of what you said is shared and has been posted by others.. But still nice post non-the-less.


Yes, the skill point/GSP thing is an issue for whales. Personally, i thought PGI should of added a GSP conversion to c-bills, (one time use, for first time log in. Players that were away did not get the option to sell off modules to get more c-bills) that change was directly due to feedback from players. Again some liked it, others did not. Most people made out better, the whales, or people with 10k-20k matches not as much.

That said, i had 4k GSP, and with playing around with builds, and leveling some new mechs i'm already down to 2k GSP in a month. I still have not touched more than half my mechs. I think players that actually go back and play 100+ mechs might actually dip in further to this than they thing. Not to mention you can now insta-master any mech in the coming future which is a nice bonus.

as you get used to it, i think you will find not all laser mechs run the same. I have many tweaks i use on some mechs. Sure 2/3's are probably similar, but that is more due to preference i think than anything. I see others that run very different builds than i do. Some swear by full mobility on everything, Others just take kinetic burst. Some swear by armor, others pass. I think as you get used to it and use it on more mechs you will end up liking it more. Many that hated it have come to like it as time goes on. Others, well you know, you can't please everyone Posted Image


Escort, Some people like it, others don't.. I can't stand Domination for instance yet you like it, people have different tastes, and our opinion differences prove that. (i love conquest btw).. Escort needs a little improvement IMO, and i think with new maps, they will be designed more with that in mind. It's basically a more aggressive mode that used more parts of the map that aren't normally on some maps which is nice.

Incursion was suppose to replace assault, but instead they added it and kept the old. I don't mind much, they do play a bit different. The fighting over batteries is an interesting objective concept verse just cap rush. give it some time, you might like it.


New tech, Only civil war mechs, and the new IS hero' chassis have been updated. next patch all the new clan horoes are getting the update along with their counterparts.. It will probably take a while to get them all updated. All new mechs coming will have full graphical updates, all older mechs are in the Que, to get them so no need to wait for MWO2. Updating all those mechs is a ton of work and is going to take some time. Others have complained about not having full compatibility, but IMO all that would of meant was pushing pack new tech to the winter. That i don't think would of been a good idea. Since new tech population has been steadily higher than it has been for well over a year. A few nights have been nearing just after steam launch numbers.


2 new maps are on the way.. Not sure exactly when they are coming.

Edited by JC Daxion, 02 August 2017 - 07:32 AM.


#4 metallio

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:57 AM

...I'd kill for Arathi Basin in MWO.

#5 davoodoo

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:03 AM

View Postmetallio, on 02 August 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

...I'd kill for Arathi Basin in MWO.

id kill to stop seeing arathi basin and isle of conquest...

Edited by davoodoo, 02 August 2017 - 08:04 AM.


#6 Coolant

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:06 AM

While it appears you spent a lot of time and thought on your post, it is just too long. It makes responding to it too laborious. I was thinking of responding to each and every point like I have to some posts in the past, but realized it would take too much of my morning.

You see to be complaining about the vast amounts of Cbills and XP you now have, which is very puzzling and tbh, mind-boggling. You should be thankful that you won't have to worry when it comes time to re-spec a current skill tree build or when buying a new mech - you can have it instantly "mastered".

As far as not needing to spend money anymore, you can always buy mechs to play earlier, or MC to purchase cockpit items or camos. I don't always spend money just to get stuff but to show appreciation for the game I play the most and franchise that I have been a part of since around 1993.

#7 Dread Render

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:06 AM

View PostJC Daxion, on 02 August 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Players that were away did not get the option to sell off modules to get more c-bills)


I think you are mistaken here... I did not sell ANY of mine, they were sold automatically for me.
and be sure I checked that I got all the C-Bills ;-)

#8 Honiara

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:45 AM

View PostCoolant, on 02 August 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

While it appears you spent a lot of time and thought on your post, it is just too long. It makes responding to it too laborious. I was thinking of responding to each and every point like I have to some posts in the past, but realized it would take too much of my morning.


This is very true, I was writing the above to only realize I had written a novel before I finished, but once written there was little point in deleting it :)

View PostCoolant, on 02 August 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

You see to be complaining about the vast amounts of Cbills and XP you now have, which is very puzzling and tbh, mind-boggling. You should be thankful that you won't have to worry when it comes time to re-spec a current skill tree build or when buying a new mech - you can have it instantly "mastered".


Yep, because like everything in life, if you have to work towards something rather than it being given to you on-a-plate so to speak, you appriciate it more.

View PostCoolant, on 02 August 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

As far as not needing to spend money anymore, you can always buy mechs to play earlier, or MC to purchase cockpit items or camos. I don't always spend money just to get stuff but to show appreciation for the game I play the most and franchise that I have been a part of since around 1993.

Yes strange as it may seem, I and kind of complaining that this has now become a F2P for me, but not because it's now free, but because PGI needs payers, no payers means no game. I forgot to mention that I have also got thousands of stock pilled MC, I have camo's on all of my played 'mechs and colours.

#9 JC Daxion

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:54 AM

View PostDread Render, on 02 August 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:


I think you are mistaken here... I did not sell ANY of mine, they were sold automatically for me.
and be sure I checked that I got all the C-Bills ;-)



Only if you bought them after a certain time. (december of 2016) Any purchased before that became GPS, which some folks ended up with tons, like the OP, and C-bills could of helped. Many folks sold off many modules at 50% off and then kept some for the bonus GSP. Players that left for a while, did not have that option. A simple one time GSP conversation could help those that were gone.


View PostHoniara, on 02 August 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:


This is very true, I was writing the above to only realize I had written a novel before I finished, but once written there was little point in deleting it Posted Image



Id rather read a well thought out, and constructive novel, than many of the posts on these boards.. I tend to make long posts as i ramble on myself :P

Even if we don't agree on everything, there is always room for a constructive post, and opinions. :)

#10 MechaBattler

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:33 AM

So you have too many mechbays, C-bills, and GSP? And not enough new mechs to buy?

What enviable problems.

#11 Honiara

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:57 AM

View PostMechaBattler, on 02 August 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

So you have too many mechbays, C-bills, and GSP? And not enough new mechs to buy?

What enviable problems.


No I think you had read my post wrong, it's not 'not enough new mechs to buy' its why bother buying any 'mechs as I have variants at every tonnage to do every role.

The way PGI has handled the refund of modules has gifted me a situation that I never have to spend money again. Of course if PGI had not lied and actually refunded all my C-bills and non of the 13000 GSP, I would actually still need Premium Time as I would need the XP boost.

I don't need to spend any money ever again. so from someone who used to spend £35 / month on this game to £0 is an issue for PGI, it's not an issue for me, I know a bunch of of returning players that are in the exact same situation. who have in the past spend even more money than I have on this game.

PGI really needs to look at a new way to monetize this game because sooner or later EVERYONE will be in the situation I am in, and once people realize that a 65 tonne ballistic mech with high mounted hard-points is the same as the next 65 tonne 'mech with high mounted hard-points no one will ever need to buy new 'mechs again.

#12 MechaBattler

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:14 PM

But not everyone drops that much money consistently on this game. And not everyone plays at the same level or for the same amount of time.

Plus for new people you have to pay c-bills and XP for skills on top of upgrading and customizing your first mech. While learning the game with other newbies and smurfs in T5.

But I get your point. They need to add more goodies for whales. Custom Geometry for mechs has been thrown around a lot. Faction huds or custom huds would also be another goodie. The idea of sound packs get brought up often.

Edited by MechaBattler, 02 August 2017 - 12:36 PM.


#13 Cygone

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:24 PM

I find myself agreeing with the OP on most of these points.

I have something like 200m c-bills, 9,000 GSP and dozens of available 'Mech Bays. I take a look over the store to purchase new 'Mechs but there is just no reason for me to spend money because no new 'Mech brings anything to the table that is not in the game.

Once you own a Humanoid and a Chicken 'Mech for each weight class on each faction, any new Mech design is not something I need to buy the moment it is released.

PGI I want to PAY YOU MONEY, but honestly I can't think of anything that is actually worth buying.

C

#14 r4plez

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:25 PM

View PostFoxfire kadrpg, on 02 August 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

This was well detailed and well written. I hope it reaches the attention of PGI.


It will be hard to put this on twitter

/sarcasm

#15 Athom83

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:27 PM

The only thing I have a comment on is this;

View PostHoniara, on 02 August 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Modules:
Before my absence, I was expecting 800+ million in refunded C-bills for my modules as the developers had stated

So I, like many other purchased several hundred million C-bills worth of modules just to find on my return I have not received a refund I have actually been granted these additional skill points. So well done PGI for strait up lying to your customers, this is not good and immediately gave me a less than exited feel to returning to your game. If these were not digital goods and in fact goods purchased with real money you would have been issuing an observed amount of refunds.

Skill Points:
This leads nicely onto Skill Points, or more specifically 'General Skill Points' that I now have 13000, what am I going to do with these? I already have 91 HSP on every mech I own, so what are GSP for? the only think I can see is that I can use the to skill up new 'mechs other than that their useless. On top of this mess, I also have 880,000 GXP what is the point in these? yes I can convert them to 'Skill Points' at the cost of C-Bills, but as I have 13,000 GSP these seem completely worthless. Then there is HSP, as with the GXP what is the point in these? Another worthless currency for a long term player. The UI is so bad at converting and explaining all these various different SP/HSP/GSP/XP/GXP/HXP, hell that's 6 soft currencies for a single game, talk about overly confusing, not even including the C-bills and MC, a whopping 8 types of currency!


This was because of a massive outcry of whales. They were originally going to give a 1 for 1 refund of all C-Bills invested in modules in your inventory. However, people who never bought modules and instead spent all their C-Bills getting more mechs they never fully kit out at once cried that the refund was unfair and they couldn't fully master all of their mechs that they never use (despite that the new mastery gives more than previous). The only way PGI could get the update out in time was to introduce that clunky system and not give C-Bill refunds for "every" module, and only gave C-Bills for modules bought after a certain time. If they didn't cry as hard we wouldn't have all 6 of those different XP currencies, only XP and GXP with the SP simply referring to the nodes you bought instead of being their own "currency".

Side note; a lot of those complainers I mentioned above also didn't like the clunky system with 6 XP currencies that they themselves caused into existence... Karma isn't it?

#16 Wildstreak

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:30 PM

View PostHoniara, on 02 August 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

what has your art team been doing since the announcement of Civil War?

When not working on new Mechs, I figure they may be working on MW5.

View PostFoxfire kadrpg, on 02 August 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

This was well detailed and well written. I hope it reaches the attention of PGI.

Wrong place for that.

#17 Jay Leon Hart

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:34 PM

View PostAthom83, on 02 August 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

*snip*

You're welcome Posted Image

#18 Bigbacon

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 01:52 PM

honestly since I came back after almost a year (like 3 days before ST) I haven't spent any time playing mechs I used to love as they are all kind of trash anymore.

I spend my time playing pretty much light troll builds because its the only way I'm not getting alpha melted instantly or playing longer range kind of stuff.

bought an artic cheetah when I came back...it is pretty much almost all I play, that and IS lights packing lots of light PPCs and ECM

Edited by Bigbacon, 02 August 2017 - 01:53 PM.


#19 Escef

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 02:06 PM

View PostHoniara, on 02 August 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Incursion: This plays like Assault 2.0 or Skirmish 2.0, why even introduce yet another mode that plays the same?


IIRC, Incursion was originally intended to replace Assault, but PGI decided to have both instead. I've found Incursion to be an ok mode, and every now and again it's a nice change of pace. My only real compliant is that on Crimson Straight the team that spawns on the dock side of the mountains can easily base rush if the other team does anything other than defend the saddle. Makes the map/mode combination too predictable.





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