258 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

They are detrimental to the team on almost every single map and unless you are dropping with several friends don't bring them. Period. They cost too much weight compared to clan counterparts and clanners will dodge them at range every single time.

Just. Stop.

Even an AC2 boat is better than that **** when you're dropping solo.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 02 February 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Key here is he said "unless you are dropping with friends"

Organized group lrms on the right man where spotters/tags/narc/bap are all in play can be highly effective if the lurms focus fire and work with the team in general.

When i see posts like this i typically assume the OP is referring the solo guys that hang in the back, targeting low priority targets, screaming for locks and bring no backup weapons and then crow about their high amount of (meaningless) damage.

Lrms have a place in certain maps/modes, devastating when you use force multipliers, near useless if you don't.

Edited by MovinTarget, 08 January 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[The Basilisk]

-- IS LRMs bring half the dmg than Clan LRMs, period.
-- LRMs require high ammounts of communication and coordination, more than other weapons.
-- LRMs are highly dependant on intel
-- LRMs are highly dependant on terrain.
-- etc. etc. etc....

> A PPC or Gauss depends on what you are able to see on your monitor and how well you are able to track and shoot.

So who wants to trade two highly controllable factors versus four + factors you can't do anything about in FP pug.

-->>> DO NOT BRING LRMS TO FP PUG GAMES

[KODIAK-AU]

The Basilisk, on 08 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

-- IS LRMs bring half the dmg than Clan LRMs, period.
-- LRMs require high ammounts of communication and coordination, more than other weapons.
-- LRMs are highly dependant on intel
-- LRMs are highly dependant on terrain.
-- etc. etc. etc....

> A PPC or Gauss depends on what you are able to see on your monitor and how well you are able to track and shoot.

So who wants to trade two highly controllable factors versus four + factors you can't do anything about in FP pug.

-->>> DO NOT BRING LRMS TO FP PUG GAMES

You do know that IS lrm's are preferred over Clan lrm's?

IS lrm's fire in clumps while Clan lrm's fire in a stream and easier to be shot down with ams.

And correct me if I'm wrong but the missile damage is exact the same on Clan and IS lrm's, so please elaborate how IS lrm's bring half the damage of Clan lrm's

[MovinTarget]

IrvoDactyl, on 08 January 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

You do know that IS lrm's are preferred over Clan lrm's?

IS lrm's fire in clumps while Clan lrm's fire in a stream and easier to be shot down with ams.

And correct me if I'm wrong but the missile damage is exact the same on Clan and IS lrm's, so please elaborate how IS lrm's bring half the damage of Clan lrm's

Yeah that was the one part of his assertion I didn't follow... IS lrms are pretty close to "all or nothing" and do same dmg per missle.

The one advantage with clan lrms is that as they stream, they don't spread as much so they can theoretically get more hits on the ct than a clump of IS LRMS

[Lanancuras]

The advantage is that Clan LRMs are significantly lighter. If you were however to compare a single LRM 20 to a C-LRM 20 with just ammo and nothing else the IS one is superior (in this game at least), but since the Clan LRMs weigh much less it makes up for it.

That being said, I do not recommend bringing LRMs in FW at all as a solo dropper, and even in well-coordinated groups other weapons are still superior imo.

[MovinTarget]

Lanancuras, on 08 January 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

The advantage is that Clan LRMs are significantly lighter. If you were however to compare a single LRM 20 to a C-LRM 20 with just ammo and nothing else the IS one is superior (in this game at least), but since the Clan LRMs weigh much less it makes up for it.

That being said, I do not recommend bringing LRMs in FW at all as a solo dropper, and even in well-coordinated groups other weapons are still superior imo.

Other weapons are superior, i agree, but i have also seen people with the right team mindset to play lrms as part of the group...

[Starbomber109]

His message was directed at solo players, and I agree. Lrms in a 100% MM team, with no groups, are kinda a detriment. For a lot of reasons, the biggest one is you are relying on 'pug armor' to put out all of your damage. Meaning, you're typically not going to be on the same wave as your team. If lets say 4 people bring LRMs, that's 4 less mechs the enemy has to worry about in a firing line. The clans will trade 12 Mechs vs 8 and win every time, while your LRMs lose effectiveness as they take cover and utilize radar derp.

I think the biggest reason not to use LRMs on the IS side, is you pretty much NEED a tag to be effective against clans. Clan drop decks are full of ECM because of the Hellbringer (and scorch is also really popular, an ECM assault mech at 85 tons) With so much ECM, you either need a dedicated electronic support mech, or you need to bring your own TAG. Bringing your own tag presents it's own problems as you pretty much have to directly look at the enemy for long enough to get locks. You'll be exposed for way longer than you would be if you were using any other weapon system.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

I'm just a Gauss boat I'm innocent!
On the other subject I say IS should bring more AMS since every time I end up in CW they whine about clanner lurms.

[KODIAK-AU]

Starbomber109, on 08 January 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

His message was directed at solo players, and I agree. Lrms in a 100% MM team, with no groups, are kinda a detriment. For a lot of reasons, the biggest one is you are relying on 'pug armor' to put out all of your damage. Meaning, you're typically not going to be on the same wave as your team. If lets say 4 people bring LRMs, that's 4 less mechs the enemy has to worry about in a firing line. The clans will trade 12 Mechs vs 8 and win every time, while your LRMs lose effectiveness as they take cover and utilize radar derp.

I think the biggest reason not to use LRMs on the IS side, is you pretty much NEED a tag to be effective against clans. Clan drop decks are full of ECM because of the Hellbringer (and scorch is also really popular, an ECM assault mech at 85 tons) With so much ECM, you either need a dedicated electronic support mech, or you need to bring your own TAG. Bringing your own tag presents it's own problems as you pretty much have to directly look at the enemy for long enough to get locks. You'll be exposed for way longer than you would be if you were using any other weapon system.

I agree with you all that LRM's are a bad weapon system and I would rather people bring more effective mechs.

I just wanted to find out how he thinks that IS lrm's do half as much damage as Clan lrm's. we were not talking about tonnage and slot difference but about damage difference.

I still do not get it

[Starbomber109]

I only let people bring LRMs nowadays if they bring their own tag laser

As to the half damage bit...he might be thinking of inside the 190 m range marker. At that close range, IS lrm's don't even arm, and bounce harmlessly off of whatever obstacle they hit. Trees, buildings, enemy mechs....allied mechs. Clan LRMs leave the tubes armed and ready to explode, but this presents two problems. There's very reduced damage at close ranges. There's also splash damage. Yes, it exsists, though usually you don't notice it unless you happen to be colliding with a mad dog. When he panics and unloads all his chained LRM5 launchers, he'll take a small amount of splash damage.

Clan LRM's have that psychological effect though. If you get targeted and rained on, you feel this barrage of missiles raining on you. It's intimidating. In some cases it can blind you (even through thermal). However, AMS does a better job countering clan LRMs than you might think. Also radar deprivation helps you avoid damage.

Maybe he was thinking of damage per ton? (Clan LRMs do weigh less than IS ones...but not by so much that it'd give them a 2x advantage)

[Murphy7]

My interpretation was more tonnage for ammo, thus more damage with the Clan LRMs.

LRM 10 and 2 tons ammo IS - 7 tons

LRM 10 and 4.5 tons ammo Clan - 7 tons, more damage capacity for the clanner in that regard.

I am likely wrong.

[Amsro]

The people who you are talking to aren't likely on the forums either.

[Bjorn Coston]

I only just recently came to the Inner Sphere after being Clans since they were introduced. Immediately upon dropping with the IS I noticed that there was an unhealthy emphasis on the effectiveness of LRMs. Me personally I am entirely against them. When you have 2-3 LRM boats that means you have 2-3 mechs not sharing armor at the front line and unless you can maintain steady coverage and a decent LRM umbrella, your front line gets rolled up while you stay safe 600+ meters behind your comrade's burning corpses.

I have seen LRM's be effective with coordinated drops against PUGs i.e. a Narc Light backed up by at the most 2 LRM boats. Yet again however, that strategy can be easily countered by coordinated units and only works to hinder the team.

[Edward Hazen]

The Basilisk, on 08 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

-- IS LRMs bring half the dmg than Clan LRMs, period.

Not true, tested this in a private match with my unitmate multiple times and it took fewer LRM volleys from his 2xLRM20 + Artemis Archer to take out my full-armor Marauder IIc than it did for his 4xLRM20+Artemis Night Gyr (and no he did not overheat). We tested both group fire and chainfire and each time both of our Mechs remained stationary and 700 meters apart.

Edited by S0ulReapr, 10 January 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

they are still the most effective way to make people cry, for all kinds of reasons

[MovinTarget]

SHRedo, on 10 January 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

they are still the most effective way to make people cry, for all kinds of reasons

Edited by MovinTarget, 10 January 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[Invictus359]

If you IS players and, yes, even units, continue to bring LRMS, you will continue to lose to the more organized Clan units period. You can use them against unorganized or less experienced players and groups but the counters are too easy and you will lose almost every match against units and players who know the counter measures. The simplest of which is to close range and brawl. Just tonight we ran up against multiple groups and individuals running LRMS and won every match because we simply charge in and brawl. If you use your tonnage advantage, structure advantage, heat advantage and coordinate a brawl you are much more likely to get a win and have more fun doing it. Brawling is fun win, lose or draw and gives you the best chance to win anyway. Just a thought from a Merc currently in the Clans (don't care about lore so don't bother with the "Clans shouldn't have mercs" thing lol, just here to have fun.). Good luck all and see you on the battlefield!

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Bjorn Bekker, on 10 January 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

your front line gets rolled up while you stay safe 600+ meters behind your comrade's burning corpses.

Well I find that a problem, LRM players staying far behind, the minimum range of those LRM's are 185, it's enough to roll with the main group.
Sure they are still behind the group obviously but since they are closer at least their travel time is cut down significantly.
I personally don't have a problem with LRM's but I do have a problem with those people staying behind and then when they become light food, they blame others for it...

[kesmai]

Making lrms work, no matter what game mode, can be as much if not even more work than other weapons.
Op should talk about: Leeching, backhiding mindless scrubs, that won't do shite either even if they bring tier 1 direct fire mechs to any match.
And when you have managed to get gut in your lurmechies, rest assure that you are blown to pieces by players that know what to do when facing lurmers.
Lurms can work well, but they are prone to backfire on you like an exploding gauss (well not literally), better do not rely on them as a mainstay.