158 replies to this topic

[Spr1ggan]

Kjudoon, on 04 August 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

And divorce it from win loss ratio, because that does not actually evaluate skill. As proven by some of the testimonies here on guys having to kill four plus mechs to make up for all the window lickers. Right now all we have is a time in service counter. That is all tiers mean. Even the worst of potatoes will eventually rise to at least tier 3 over time. Creating a subsection of rankings for Tier 1 would do nothing to solve the problem except add another layer of complexity on the Matchmaker. The idea of adding granularity, I think is actually a good one. Divided up into 20 tiers and have you able to Face Off versus the next four levels above and below, and maybe that's a good fix for it. But PGI needs to stop making excuses for trying to normalize to edge cases instead of protecting the bulk of the population and using statistics on individual performance properly.

I'd just be happy with a bronze up to diamond system with rank loss from bad performances and not playing for ages.

[QuantumButler]

The tier system expects you to be able to carry the weight that any terrible publord teammates on your side cannot, so you just have to hope the MM RNG gives your team more players who can actually aim and aren't using steering wheels or single heatsink lore builds than the other side.

Edited by QuantumButler, 04 August 2017 - 08:14 PM.

[Composite Armour]

I want to go back to tier 3.

[Kjudoon]

Composite Armour, on 04 August 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

I want to go back to tier 3.

Heck I want to go back to tier 5. Why? Because I don't face any of the people I don't really think I should be facing most of the time. They're good! I'm not. I'm may be slightly above-average and my KDP and win loss ratio, actually my win loss ratio is pretty tier 5 but my kdr is more tr3. Okay so maybe tier 4 is more appropriate. That's where I want to be. Let the pros face the pros let those of us who just one out beer league it out go do so.

[Kjudoon]

QuantumButler, on 04 August 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

The tier system expects you to be able to carry the weight that any terrible publord teammates on your side cannot, so you just have to hope the MM RNG gives your team more players who can actually aim and aren't using steering wheels or single heatsink lore builds than the other side.

The solution to some of that is Battle rating. Bring us battle rating so the mechs that people bring into battle will be modifying where they are in the queue. If you're bringing in a competitive quote unquote Tier 1 build, then you should be facing tougher opponents. Your equipment is better. On the other hand, you're running a joke build in a bad chassis, you should therefore be facing weaker opponents because your equipment is weaker in so many respects. They had this in table top and it was brilliant. Use it here and suddenly you're not facing a bunch of the latest meta bill clanners on one side while you have Lance drunk out of their gourd potatoes with joke builds cuz they're just fooling around. That's a real problem. The intent of Gamers when they login to play a match. Not everyone is there to win. Winning is a side effect of whatever accomplishment they have in their head, at least for some. Enough of a minority that matches are lost because of it and wreck the experience for others intentionally or unintentionally.

[Sorbic]

I have two accounts with one a T2 and this one T1. Most of the times there is little difference as far as lopsided games but you do end up with a little less seal clubbing in T1. I think most of peoples complaints comes from the frustration of sometimes tougher opponents and the times when there aren't a lot of people playing.

I almost never have real long waits (change weight class for those rare occasions) on T1 or 2 but there are certain times of day when I'm waiting just over a minute. Largely I just don't see a big difference.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I find most tier 1 battles pretty okay.

[Xmith]

Jman5, on 04 August 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

This is what I believe is the biggest problem with the matchmaker. You've got a huge range of skill at Tier 1, but MM treats them all equally.

Russ has argued in the past that they can't do anything about it because wait times, but I really don't agree. All it comes down to is creating a more granular system at Tier 1 and ranking them. It's not even very hard to do. Just create a table of all Tier 1 players and then rank them based on the average matchscore of their last 100 games. You could make it even better by ranking them based on their last 100 games within each weight class. So if you drop in a light you're not being treated the same as when you drop in your heavy. You still match with the same people so wait times are the same as before. It's just mitigating the team-stacking issue.

Matchscore isn't perfect, but it's good enough.

T1 players will eventually complain about having to play the same people all the time. It is bound the happen if T1 is split off from the rest of the player base. T2 and T3 players will be saying " you're too good to play with us huh. What makes you so special?"

[Weeny Machine]

Nine-Ball, on 04 August 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

The randomness of PUGs doesn't magically disappear when you reach tier 1. While you may be facing a "higher quality" opponent as opposed to a tier 5 it still doesn't factor in individual mech build strength or viability. Toss in the randomness of the map selection and sometimes those weapons on your arms are more or less useless for a domination mode polaris highlands. Or maybe your team is facing a few LRM boats with no ECM. Or maybe you do have ECM but your pilot is off doing his own thing and not providing you cover.

Point is there is a huge amount of variables outside of simple "PSR" that affect the outcome of a match. Tier 1 just punishes that much more since the quality of opponents is that much better.

You know, there is a huge difference in the potential power level of loadouts and people who spread out or position so badly that half your team dies within 2 minutes. The former leaves room for good matches, the latter is just infurating

[Signal27]

This thread makes me happy to be smack dab in the middle of Tier 3 and not playing often enough to really go up or down. Thanks guys!

[Abisha]

That's why you should never try to tier up.
How? Deliberately loss the match but with at least a few kills see!.
Also keep in mind not to play in weekends then more people are online and the system put better tier players together
Which is bad for your stats.


I try to keep in Tier by design I like farming noobs.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I believe I should be in Tier 3, Tier 2 max.

OP, if the carrier's in the match (regardless of Tiers) are using a test builds, levelling mechs or using mechs which are not killers, how can they kill?
I like to use my Purifier but most matches are a loss and I still always some how end up in the top 3 scorers despite wanting to play a support role.

[Tarl Cabot]

One issue is how PSR is setup, it is not even close to being a zero-sum PSR. Many T1-2 should not be T1-2, they have simply played enough games and done just well enough to move up, aka experience bar. And no, I shouldn't be in T1 but I am, maxed out

Then the MM, as there are many unknown variables. PGI has yet to give an example of HOW this would work with extremes. They have given a broad statement without really defining it. PGI says a T1 should never be in the same drop as a T5, nor a T5 in a T1 drop, but is that ONLY if the T1 or T5 is the seeded player? The first player seeds the starting tier. What if the seeded player is a T3? Example, a seeded T3 can have T1 or T5s but they have never confirmed nor denied if the 2nd player to be selected seeds the direction or if the seeded T3 will draw from both Tier ends.

Or, is it about the pool average? After the seeded player is selected, each additional person added to the pool changes the Tier "average".

And just because we are T1-2 does not mean we can not be the fillers instead of the other way around. Some of us are so funny...

So say a seeded T3 draws from the available T3-4 (remember, it is not just Tier, it is mech class availability) then T1 and T2 become become the fillers, or did they?

Regardless of how the MM works, it can only work with the numbers provided, the PSR which in its current configuration is poorly setup.

[Ssamout]

Abisha, on 05 August 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

That's why you should never try to tier up.
How? Deliberately loss the match but with at least a few kills see!.
Also keep in mind not to play in weekends then more people are online and the system put better tier players together
Which is bad for your stats.


I try to keep in Tier by design I like farming noobs.

Bads just wanna stay bad, complain about premades using teamwork, but still only want to fight steering wheel noobs. Could we have a crap bucket for these special snowflakes that they dont ruin the game for the rest.

[Darth Hotz]

The problem I see is, that as a tier 1 you get punished for not using a strong meta build. If you dont and you use a fun setup, level or experiment with a loadout, your team just lost one of the pillars the matchmaker is counting on to have on your side. If a second tier 1 also comes with a non meta build its pretty much an instant loss.

The solution would be to redesign the matchmaker that it would also include individual stats in each weight class. I am good in anything with +45t, below im a old mashed potatoe. So if enter a match in a light for shits and giggles, I already damaged my team, although the matchmaker counts on me to carry it.

But of course a redesigned matchmaker is a big challenge and from the past experiences I doubt that this will ever happen.

[Kjudoon]

Cough... Battle Value ... Cough

[Dao Feng]

Viktor Drake, on 03 August 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

The issue I am having it most of my matches are like this anymore and it is just frustrating. My teams are scattered all over the map or are blobbed up so bad that they are tripping over each other and dying more to friendly fire than to the enemy.

This is my experience too but for a long time. Which is why I play lights. At least with lights, you have somewhat more flexibility in ranging out by yourself than having to stick with the potato blob.

If the potatoes are showing some intelligence; being aggressive and pushing together, you can join them. But if they are just sitting in one position and waiting to be massacred when the other teams grows some balls, then I can flank and harass.

[Dao Feng]

Sorbic, on 04 August 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

I have two accounts with one a T2 and this one T1. Most of the times there is little difference as far as lopsided games but you do end up with a little less seal clubbing in T1.

I also have a T2 and T1 account but with the opposite experience.

My T2 games tend to be closer and more balanced while T1 games result in far more stomps. That's when there's sufficient T2 players and my T2 account doesn't get lumped with T1 games.

That experience is over 300+ matches at T2 and 2k+ matches at T1.

So I do think a more granular T1 match making system, during prime time when the population allows, would be better.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Darth Hotz, on 05 August 2017 - 03:04 AM, said:

The problem I see is, that as a tier 1 you get punished for not using a strong meta build. If you dont and you use a fun setup, level or experiment with a loadout, your team just lost one of the pillars the matchmaker is counting on to have on your side. If a second tier 1 also comes with a non meta build its pretty much an instant loss.

The solution would be to redesign the matchmaker that it would also include individual stats in each weight class. I am good in anything with +45t, below im a old mashed potatoe. So if enter a match in a light for shits and giggles, I already damaged my team, although the matchmaker counts on me to carry it.

But of course a redesigned matchmaker is a big challenge and from the past experiences I doubt that this will ever happen.

I've suggested in the past they look at k/d per mech or at least use that as a multiplier of the tier. They have all the stats available and yet nothing clever done with them. Seeing that almost all game modes ALWAYS boil down to killing the other mechs to win, k/d should be the prime value in the equation.

[Dao Feng]

LordBraxton, on 04 August 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Youre joking right?

I havent played much lately, but I remember Spriggan from years ago, and he knows how to play.

If you're joking, sorry. If not, gtfo.

Just check Spr1ggan and Oneda on the leader boards for season 14 and 13. One is an ace pilot who knows wtf he talking about, another mistakes his @sshole for his mouth.

Anyone with sufficient match experience who doesn't live in their own fantasy knows that a pug which is aggressive and pushes together will slaughter the pug which camps.

Edited by Dao Feng, 05 August 2017 - 05:03 AM.