68 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Jun Watarase, on 03 August 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

Clans need more viable mechs.

Hellbringer only has the tonnage for laser vomit, but has no quriks to encourage running missiles/ballistics.

Mad dog needs ballistic quirks beause there is literally no point running it with ballistics now, it has low mounted arms that get blocked easily and the side torsos are extremely easy to single out and destroy.

Timber wolf needs more quirks to encourage builds other than laser vomit/missiles.

EBJ badly needs durability quirks since you can hit the CT even from the side and the top mounted guns are extremely easy to single out from any angle.

Orion IIC has the same problems that the Orion has, except argubably worse since it cant run 3x LPL without ghost heat.

Summoner is a waste of 70 tons. Woud love to have the ability to run ER PPC/LBX on it and not have it suck.

Direwolf is inferior to the kodiak in pretty much every way.

Mist lynx, ice ferret, nova, etc, are all junk with insufficient pod space and insufficient quirks to make up for it, IS mechs of the same tonnage basically **** all over them.

Needs more standard battlemechs as well, a 60 ton standard battlemech would fill in the gap nicely for example.

thats the issue with the construction rules, And i don't get the reason, before we had clan battlemechs that kinda was fine, now the "advantage" of podswappping is monor compared to any clan battlemech havign good hardpoints by nature. All it does is restrict specific mechs with disadvantages.

[Zergling]

I've been wanting the Piranha for a looooooooong time.

[Khobai]

Lily from animove, on 03 August 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

thats the issue with the construction rules, And i don't get the reason, before we had clan battlemechs that kinda was fine, now the "advantage" of podswappping is monor compared to any clan battlemech havign good hardpoints by nature. All it does is restrict specific mechs with disadvantages.

thats why omnimechs need some other advantage

I personally think omnimechs should get 1-2 omnihardpoints that they can slot any type of weapon into

that would increase the versatility of omnimechs greatly

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 03 August 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

then why give us microlasers if were not going to get a mech that can use them?

the only way microlasers work is on a mech with tons of energy hardpoints but little free tonnage.

It's not that I don't want a 'Mech that can use Micros. I do.

It's that, in this case, 13x MicroPulse* give it an insane DPS of 16.77 for 6.5 tons and only 10.53 heat/sec. Firing 6+7, you deal 35 damage per 2.6 second cycle and you can do that about 6 times before overheating....that's extremely powerful and will brutalize heavier 'Mechs when combined with a cXL 180, giving it the speed to easily duck into that short range. And there's no Light on the IS side that can duel like that, not even the LCT-3S.

Even 15x ER Micros would be nothing to sneeze at, matching the 12x MG for on-armor DPS, and you can cool them much better than the MicroPulse at only 3.75 tons for 15 of the suckers.

The Micros would end up getting unfairly nerfed because the only 'Mech they are good on is ridiculously good with them, making them even worse on everything else. Just like the cERSL, and similar to the cSPL (which did need a nerf regardless, but the current values are worthless).

People want the Piranha specifically because they know it's a cheese-wagon. They will buy it because it is a cheese-wagon. And when things get nerfed because it's a cheese-wagon, there will be much backlash and everybody suffers. If we want a 'Mech that is good with Micros as they currently are, the LCT-IIC would be a better choice with a more reasonable 9xE, which with Micro Pulse puts its performance in line with what the quirked LCT-3S can pull off and about 2 DPS better than what the quirked LCT-3M can do with SPL. It's easier to manage, balance-wise, and is a more flexible platform to boot.

TL;DR: just say no to high-end performance outliers.

*Note, I don't know the hardpoint arrangement. I'm assuming 12x in the torsos, 1x in the CT, and 2x in the arms; can't use the arms with MicroPulse, but can with ER Micro.

[Khobai]

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It's that, in this case, 13x MicroPulse* give it an insane DPS of 16.77 for 6.5 tons and only 10.53 heat/sec.

but its only got a 90m range

and its still weaker than what oldschool CSPL was capable of

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People want the Piranha specifically because they know it's a cheese-wagon

its a 20 ton mech with a 90m range and wouldnt have anywhere near the agility of a locust.

if it didnt hit hard it wouldnt have any use.

I see more of a problem with machine gun builds than micropulse builds. but like I said you can easily balance out the 12 machine guns with a ghost heat limit of 6-8 on mgs and negative rate of fire quirks. the ghost heat wouldnt be so prohibitive as to make firing 12 machine guns impractical, but it would still make them generate enough heat that you couldnt sustain the dps indefinitely.

Edited by Khobai, 03 August 2017 - 11:53 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 03 August 2017 - 11:46 PM, said:

but its only got a 90m range

and its still weaker than what oldschool CSPL was capable of


its a 20 ton mech with a 90m range

if it didnt hit hard it wouldnt have any use.

Discounting the 12x ER Micros with 12 DPS at 150 meters, are we? But that's sort of just it; when you run at 150+ kph, there's no functional difference between 200 meters and 90 meters for DPS-biased weapons. It's why all those range buffs to the standard IS small have meant absolutely nothing, because the type of 'Mech you want to use it on can always make up the distance deficit to use a more potent, shorter ranged weapon.

If we're going to poke, we're going to take 10-12x cERSL or 10x cHSL, and even that is pretty brutal, too.

[Khobai]

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when you run at 150+ kph, there's no functional difference between 200 meters and 90 meters for DPS-biased weapons.

there is a functional difference in how much you get shot at

with only 90m-150m range youre gonna get shot at A LOT

and the piranha wont have the same quirks as the locust, as a point of balance it will be less agile and have less structure quirks. it wont have ecm either.

a 20 ton mech with no real quirks, possibly even negative quirks, and only 90m-150m range is never really going to be a cheese wagon. especially if ghost heat is put on machine guns too.

at best its a tu rd wagon.

Edited by Khobai, 04 August 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 04 August 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

there is a functional difference in how much you get shot at

with only 90m-150m range youre gonna get shot at A LOT

Yes, and? That's still in the same ballpark the cSPL operates in, the ballpark the isSL and SPL operate in. My point isn't that the gun shouldn't be potent up close, of course it should. My point, here, is that on this particular 'Mech it's going to be head-and-shoulders better than any other alternative in this weight class and in this range bracket. I am not saying it's OP, I am saying it's a balance headache with a high chance to get things that don't need to be nerfed...nerfed. That is all.

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and the piranha wont have the same quirks as the locust, as a point of balance it will be less agile and have less structure quirks

Adding to the balance headache because, regardless of the weapons, the Locust only survives precisely because it has that agility, and the same will be true for the Piranha. 20 tons is an extreme weight, and the tiniest things take such 'Mechs from hero to zero. So if the Piranha doesn't have the agility or slight durability buffs (the quirks on the 1E are token at this point), then it's going to be crap even with potent short range weapons because it can't actually deploy them.

[Khobai]

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. So if the Piranha doesn't have the agility or slight durability buffs (the quirks on the 1E are token at this point), then it's going to be crap even with potent short range weapons because it can't actually deploy them.

then what are you so worried about?

if itll be crap then its fine to add it to the game

[Lily from animove]

Khobai, on 03 August 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

thats why omnimechs need some other advantage

I personally think omnimechs should get 1-2 omnihardpoints that they can slot any type of weapon into

that would increase the versatility of omnimechs greatly

it would help those omnimechs havign hardpoint issues, but will it help those going udnertonnage because of weird fixed equipment or no ES/FF?

maybe keep the Engine size as given but allow ES/FF as well as removing fiixed equipment.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 August 2017 - 01:24 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

I'm still amazed that the Piranha isn't ingame allready, given that the Fire Moth is currently out of questions. I'd guess its because it might give Clan FP players more leathal options in terms of drop deck selections.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I came in here only to laugh at the clan players saying the mechs that were always better than IS counter parts need buffs..... get gud.

[Karl Streiger]

NO

Thorn Hallis, on 04 August 2017 - 02:09 AM, said:

I'm still amazed that the Piranha isn't ingame allready, given that the Fire Moth is currently out of questions. I'd guess its because it might give Clan FP players more leathal options in terms of drop deck selections.

sure because lights with wonky hit boxes and the alpha potential of a heavy are really sparse this days

Edited by Karl Streiger, 04 August 2017 - 02:45 AM.

[Joshua Obrien]

Racerxintegra2k, on 04 August 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

I came in here only to laugh at the clan players saying the mechs that were always better than IS counter parts need buffs..... get gud.

Taking IS quirks into consideration I have to say that clan mechs are NOT better than IS mechs nor the other way around. Things right now are more balanced than they have been in a very long time.

[Khobai]

the reality is clans need the piranha too to use half the new tech they got

whats the point of new tech like microlasers if you cant use it on anything?

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 04 August 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

then what are you so worried about?

if itll be crap then its fine to add it to the game

Weak. Why add it to the game if you intend to leave it as crap?

[Khobai]

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Weak. Why add it to the game if you intend to leave it as crap?

well that didnt stop them from adding all the civil war weapons

and you know some people just play the game to have fun. not everything always has to be competitively viable as long as its fun.

its okay if the piranha isnt a top tier mech. as long as its fun to pilot.

Edited by Khobai, 04 August 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

If you are playing this game for competitiveness or e-sports or something challenging, you are playing a wrong game. The company cannot balance this game in remotely semi-competent manner and has long history of ignoring users' requests.

This game is strictly for casuals, role-players, and community purposes. Otherwise you will get only frustrations.

Seriously, try stock mechs. They are hard, but can be fun.

[Sucy Manbavaran]

Well, we can get a 20Ton LightClan. But it'll be a Energy boat, and 80% of clan Mech must use Lazors ( or ERPPC ) to be something :/

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 04 August 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

well that didnt stop them from adding all the civil war weapons

and you know some people just play the game to have fun. not everything always has to be competitively viable as long as its fun.

its okay if the piranha isnt a top tier mech. as long as its fun to pilot.

Well, I'm not asking for it to be an MRBC Div A champion. All I am saying is that if it doesn't have the agility of a barge, and it shouldn't at 20 tons because that would be unfun and suck (remember when the Locust was a dump truck in 2014?), it's going to be a performance outlier due to the sheer number of weapons it can bring at a high speed and the stats currently implemented on those weapons, and I would rather not have outliers like that in the game. Per historical precedence, they have ruined Nice Things™ for a lot of 'Mechs and are a major driver for Clan gear requiring a consistent beating.