10 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

I feel that this mode has potential to be more interesting than it currently is, as with most/all other modes it just boils down to who deathballs the best, and that's not very fun.

But with some adjustments this gamemode may provide a somewhat different experience, just as Conquest can sometimes do.

First, a key thing is to reward actually winning by fulfilling the objective, it can't be that you get nearly no rewards when you actually win the way it's described that you're supposed to. This applies to all game modes.

Anyway, one alternative to change up the gameplay would be make the bases more vulnerable.
As it is now, the bases takes too long to kill, even if you take 2-3 mechs and rush the enemy base you might not be able to take out the base before the enemy has killed the rest of your team and then kill you. Basically, if you go after the objective as described, your team will likely lose, that can't be intended. In most cases, going to the base is just a tiresome end to the match after you've already won by killing off the enemy.
However, if the bases were less difficult to kill it would be necessary to defend your own base, perhaps by leaving a few mechs behind while the rest go out to meet the enemy, or by spreading out to over a larger area to make it difficult for enemies to slip by to your base while you move towards theirs.

Another, preferable, change would be to make the game mode asymmetrical in that one team defend their base and one team attacks, it's actually quite strange that both teams are supposed to attack and or defend at the same time.

PGI, couldn't you let us try some different set up of the modes once in a while?

[Khobai]

The simplest way to fix incursion would be to make the dropship the only way to damage enemy buildings.

jamming would protect your buildings from being attacked by the enemy dropship. and radar sweep would counter enemy jamming and allow your dropship to attack through enemy jamming.

so the whole gamemode would revolve around using power pellets to call in your dropship, protect yourself from the enemy dropship, and nullify the enemys protection against your own dropship.

that forces both teams to fight over the power pellets because whichever team is the first to either call down the dropship the required number of times or wipe out the entire enemy team will win.

that way incursion is no longer just about base rushing, and instead focused more on collecting power pellets and preventing the enemy from getting them. it forces action to take place around the power pellet dispensers.

Edited by Khobai, 04 August 2017 - 12:41 PM.

[Yellonet]

Khobai, on 04 August 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

The simplest way to fix incursion would be to make the dropship the only way to damage enemy buildings.

that forces both teams to fight over the power pellets because whichever team is the first to either call down the dropship the required number of times or wipe out the entire enemy team will win.

that way incursion is no longer just about base rushing, and instead focused more on collecting power pellets and preventing the enemy from getting them.

Yeah, why not. I just want something else than deathball mode 1, 2 and 3.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

It is pretty much always necessarily to defend the base. Except for Crimson Strait, somene usually eventually attacks the base, but it's a light attack.

I often hang around with my long range assult little in front of the base, where I can shoot the enemies as well as keep an eye on the base.

Same thing you can do with a fast mech, the moment the base is under attack, you go. Others won't disengage fast enough.

My W/L rate is best on incursion, and worst in escort. The latter I don't fully get, I try to play the mode and the flags and such, but I fail so often.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 04 August 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Coolant]

I actually don't really like any game mode except Skirmish, but I'm warming up more and more to Domination. But, I would be ok with only Skirmish. Maybe a real King of the Hill rather than Domination. However, 95% of all games played in MW4:Mercs were Skirmish and mainly respawn. I'd be ok with that with different scoring like Team Battle (point multiplier depending on tonnage). Main thing is we just need more maps.

We need more maps than game modes imo.

[Grayseven]

I don't know about fixing it, but it would be really nice if Incursion mode only popped on large maps...

[Savage Wolf]

Coolant, on 04 August 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

I actually don't really like any game mode except Skirmish, but I'm warming up more and more to Domination. But, I would be ok with only Skirmish. Maybe a real King of the Hill rather than Domination. However, 95% of all games played in MW4:Mercs were Skirmish and mainly respawn. I'd be ok with that with different scoring like Team Battle (point multiplier depending on tonnage). Main thing is we just need more maps.

We need more maps than game modes imo.

Well of course if you love skirmish I can understand why you're not worried about game modes. You're already golden. There are already several game modes for you. So good for you. And yeah, then this probably isn't important for you.

However, we are some who like other game modes and in that department the game is more lacking than maps. Mostly by incompetence on PGI's part, not for lack of trying. Maps are mostly good when they are actually done. And more maps are also welcome. Luckily map designers don't make game modes or vice versa so not really an issue, we can have both.

Khobai's suggestion actually sounds pretty good, although, like all objective based game modes, is probably even better with respawns and sadly that's locked away in FP. But would probably still be an improvement over the current incursion mode, even in QP. Although it would mostly still just be skirmish but that's just QP at fault.

[- World Eater -]

Like several posters mentioned before, it would be a better mode if one team is attacking and the other defending. In it's current state, it's mostly a shitshow. And dare I say escort is a better mode at the moment because there's some semblance of organization, IMO.

[Tatula]

Problem with basing the mode around the power packs is that there is not guarantee a team has fast lights. If the mighty MM decides that one team gets 3 Lucusts and one team gets 3 Adders, then team Locust can grab all 3 batteries before Team Adder can get half way to the storage areas. That by itself gives Team Locust an advantage.

I agree that the reward to base killing should be better.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Don't have MUCH problem with incursion, but I feel it could be made much, much better.

Batteries are a cool idea, except that they don't last long enough to matter. Even for lights you have to leave your team for about 3 minutes or more (go grab, drop at base, get back into the fight) to have a 2 minute bonus. It's just not worth it except for that 1st radar to see where the reds are, and even then mostly because you have a head start against the heavies and assaults that need more time than you to get to the front line, so only about half the time is wasted if you do it in 140kph+ mech. After the teams meet, going for bats is nothing short of hurting your own team 95% of the time.

Bats should last at least 3 minutes, even 5 would not be an overkill if they would recharge slow enough (so that those recharege points would matter).

On top of that, the dropship should actually defend your base. This is the main problem of this mode. The game in itself promotes being offensive nearly all the time, thus all matches evolve into a murderfest somewhere around the middle. Even in Escort Defense the best way to win is to destroy your enemies before they have a chance to find the VIP. For this very reason, Incursion should be made to promote the defense a lot to be actually different.
Think about it - in this single mode you would actually have an advantage in defending with properly long bat life for jammer and defending dropship. Wouldn't that be a breeze of fresh air? Of course, you cannot win without damaging the enemy base, so you have to attack at one point somehow, so sending few lights or fast snipers to damage the enemy base and run while defending would be a valid tactics. Things would boil down to who can better sneak up on the enemy and tick their base to force them to attack.
And yes, in that one mode lights would actually have a role and be very important for victory. I think we can have 1 mode that does that, can we?

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 04 August 2017 - 04:31 PM.

[Fleeb the Mad]

I'm afraid we've actually been here before and it didn't end well.

In the early days assault game modes had a very short base timer. Short enough that one light mech slipping past the line could take the base if the team pushed too far forward. The base could be captured in less time than it took for most mechs to return from mid-map.

Yes, a timer short enough that a team had to be proactive about watching all lanes of approach in the event a light slipped past. Each team was required to have some ability to spot or respond to a base cap rush, because if one mech could take the base from a strung-out team, two or three would take it before they could respond at all.

Perfect, right?

Players raged. Damn those cowards for exploiting such a mechanic to win! So PGI added the turrets and extended the capture timer, to make largely impossible for a lone scout to steal a win and very difficult for a small rush to gap the flag before the opposing team could turn around. That transformed the matches back into a worse form of skirmish, with large parts of the map denied because of LRM turrets that could also spot targets.

Thankfully that went away, but the longer capture timer did not. Thus we have assault as it is now, where a lone mech can capture the base, but with the timer as it is they can only win as the result of massive negligence on the part of the defending team. It takes a force of 3-4 mechs to capture a base before an entire enemy team can turn itself around and wipe them out.

That's also where incursion is right now. It takes a concerted effort to knock out the objective, though in my first incursion games it was quite easy for one mech to destroy the base. Even when people responded to it. Losing the base to one mech that slipped past makes people feel so cheated, particularly if they can't do anything about it before it's over.

So I'd propose a different solution. Scatter the Incursion defense objectives over the map instead of piling them all together in one base deep behind the lines. Keep the power sources where they are. It's a scenario that would promote fluid battles while penalizing camping and the time honored deathball, just because a deathball can only be in one place at a time. That would give the mode one of the best features of Conquest - spreading people out early in the match, leading to more smaller engagements.