27 replies to this topic

[Yumoshiri]

Air strikes, artillery.

These two consumables are in a shape where they are overperforming.
A consumable, generating no heat, but if well placed, can cripple half the enemy team.

What is the issue?
Everyone brings them, to the point they cripple a match to which has the better airstrike spammers.
Often enough there is not enough time to run away from them. Especially the slow slights suffer tremendous from their onslaught. Right now, they are crippling the leader board event, because 2 air strikes will guaranteed offer you more kmdd's than a bunch of backup lasers would.

Few different ideas
Air strikes/ artie only for MC. If you want to cripple a game, then pay for it.
increase the time before air strike arrives.
Increase the team cooldown to use air strikes

But a blunt damage reduction wouldn't be bad either.

[El Bandito]

I consider anyone who does not bring two strikes per mech to GQ and CW to be liability to the team. That's how good they are. Had a 1000 damage QP game in my BJ-1X today, and I am pretty sure 500 damage of it was caused by my air strikes only. Managed to hit several mechs per strike from the sides.

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

Few different ideas
Air strikes/ artie only for MC. If you want to cripple a game, then pay for it.

No, that would be pure P2W. Right now, it is in-game currency P2W.

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

increase the time before air strike arrives.

I prefer audio warning that a strike is imminent so that the enemy will scatter from their deathballs, and your teammates will know that one of their own had placed a strike. Without audio warning too many times people expose themselves to try to to place a strike and then realize that their teammate has placed it just before them.

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

Increase the team cooldown to use air strikes

Increased team cooldown and individual cooldown. Better yet, cap strikes at one strike per mech.

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

But a blunt damage reduction wouldn't be bad either.

Nah, any lower and it will become ignoreable--which defeats its purpose.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 August 2017 - 04:36 AM.

[Zergling]

El Bandito, on 06 August 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

No, that would be pure P2W. Right now, it is in-game currency P2W.

There are still strong P2W elements to it, even with in-game currency as it is now, because paying players have more in-game currency available than non-paying players, due to premium time and cbill bonus mechs.

Edited by Zergling, 06 August 2017 - 04:54 AM.

[TopZ0313]

I'm all for them - it punishes the deathball tactic. In real life, I'd never consider using air/arty against a single target, same story here. Sooner or later the player base will move away from the deathball in favor of a better tactic. Really not that hard to counter - have disperson between mechs, watch for the smoke, and know where cover is.

Edited by TopZ0313, 06 August 2017 - 05:00 AM.

[SOL Ranger]

El Bandito, on 06 August 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

*snip*

Nah, any lower and it will become ignoreable--which defeats its purpose.

In general I agree with your points, but this is a more complex issue, it already has a very sketchy "purpose" and that is largely only monetisation and easy damage for CBills. It offers very little in terms of something actually meaningful for the game other than exactly that CBills to damage conversion. Even if you just get one of them they are still CBills to damage conversion just the same because most people have no time to get out of the way.

A strike should be very ineffective against a single enemy especially one on the move or prepared to move even if that enemy is a slower assault mech, but in contrast very effective against clogged up deathballs and other very tight predictable formations like strong camping positions, not only in terms of damage but getting the enemies to disperse and let go of that formation whatever it is by forcing them to disperse or take heavy damage. As in strikes should have a distinct functional role like UAV's rather than just another weapon you always have to carry around for damage.

Right now strikes are very effective against anyone that is even a little bit slower or distracted and that's just not fun at all, even they should be able to mitigate the effects and avoid a strike, so a warning is certainly warranted. However it requires more than that because the damage drops much too fast and too quickly to reasonably avoid, you won't even be able to turn your mech to run off when you see a flare in front of you in something slower.

I believe it needs this:

• Shows warning "Strike incoming" to anyone within the strike area
  
• A strike drops after 10 seconds.
  
• Numerous smaller flares are positioned around the area so that the strike area is clearly visible.
  
• Does its damage over 10 seconds.

This makes the weapon actually a team dispersing area denial weapon rather than free CBills to damage conversion as is now or even with just a warning.

The issue with global cooldowns and skill tree can be discussed after that, maybe those changes won't even be necessary after this because then it is more a utility than outright optimal gameplay and a team can already carry 12 of them, which should be ample for even CW.

Edited by SOL Ranger, 06 August 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[HGAK47]

I very much have a love/hate relationship with these things. Its funny I dont ever recall people using them as much as they do now. Hell I used to actively avoid them in favour of UAV and coolshots. Heh..no more.

Edited by HGAK47, 06 August 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[Mystere]

W. T. F.

Another one? Wasn't posting in one of the other threads good enough?

Damn these things:



It's still summer up here!

Edited by Mystere, 06 August 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[MagicIndex]

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

Air strikes, artillery.

These two consumables are in a shape where they are overperforming.
A consumable, generating no heat, but if well placed, can cripple half the enemy team.

What is the issue?
Everyone brings them, to the point they cripple a match to which has the better airstrike spammers.
Often enough there is not enough time to run away from them. Especially the slow slights suffer tremendous from their onslaught. Right now, they are crippling the leader board event, because 2 air strikes will guaranteed offer you more kmdd's than a bunch of backup lasers would.

Few different ideas
Air strikes/ artie only for MC. If you want to cripple a game, then pay for it.
increase the time before air strike arrives.
Increase the team cooldown to use air strikes

But a blunt damage reduction wouldn't be bad either.

Just... No.

Man, did you ever played WarThunder tanks? If no, try.. if yes, don't bring your wagon of salt here.

[Yumoshiri]

MagicIndex, on 06 August 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Just... No.

Man, did you ever played WarThunder tanks? If no, try.. if yes, don't bring your wagon of salt here.

bravo on bringing up such an intelligent argument.

it is inevitable the airstrike will see a nerf due to them overperforming and crippling the game, leaderboards and whatnot. i here discuss some ways to address that, while keeping it functional. What do you bring? Tears of fear for coming nerf? Shush away.

i think limiting the air strikes/arty to one is also a good idea. this way, the skill nodes will become less valuable, and less people will prefer them over coolshot or uav.

P.s. most of my mechs have 2 airstrikes too, and with me, many more - if not most. it's the symptom of a disease in this game.

Edited by Yumoshiri, 06 August 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[Mystere]

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

i think limiting the air strikes/arty to one is also a good idea. this way, the skill nodes will become less valuable, and less people will prefer them over coolshot or uav.

See, this is my problem with this attitude/point of view. Why should a specific set of skills be any less valuable than others?

With that kind of attitude, why do we not just junk the entire skill tree? No skill tree, no problem.

And yes, I am dead serious.

And while we're at it, why not just go the full Monty and just have exactly 1 Mech, 1 Weapon, 1 very flat map with 0 terrain structures, and only a 1 vs. 1 game mode. There, perfect balance achieved.

...

On second thought, that is still not enough. People will start complaining that they are being matched against people who can kill them ...

I got it! Let us just immediately shut this game down and force everyone to wait for MW5 -- the single-player game.

,,,

Oh crap! I forgot. People will start complaining that the AI is too difficult.






TLDR: At least half of this so-called disease can be traced back to the very whiny player base! <shrugs>


Have a ******* wonderful day.

Edited by Mystere, 06 August 2017 - 09:50 AM.

[MagicIndex]

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

bravo on bringing up such an intelligent argument.

it is inevitable the airstrike will see a nerf due to them overperforming and crippling the game, leaderboards and whatnot. i here discuss some ways to address that, while keeping it functional. What do you bring? Tears of fear for coming nerf? Shush away.

i think limiting the air strikes/arty to one is also a good idea. this way, the skill nodes will become less valuable, and less people will prefer them over coolshot or uav.

P.s. most of my mechs have 2 airstrikes too, and with me, many more - if not most. it's the symptom of a disease in this game.

Man, before make such a statements... just try WT where you got something falling from the skies on ya every single seccond, and then compare TACTICAL AID here. You'll be amazed how these Arty-Air Strikes are balanced in MWO comparing to WT.
And another thing... I don't use any of those and for a whole month was only once hit by AirStrike. And I'm a Tier-5 player. Kek.

There is claerly nothing to tear salt about... we ain't have packs of Do-217 and Thunderbolts droping on ya, we don't have a WoWS Toredo-Beat's so what the problem? Get caught by TA while sitting and sniping? Move than.

Edited by MagicIndex, 06 August 2017 - 09:59 AM.

[PurplePuke]

It's just more dumbing down of the game that you're asking for. I don't see them being nearly as powerful or effective as the 'thread starters' see them.

Why?

Dunno. But they're a nice addition to the game. They're not OP at all. Quite the opposite. People expect too much from them, if anything.

[Brain Cancer]

TopZ0313, on 06 August 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

I'm all for them - it punishes the deathball tactic. In real life, I'd never consider using air/arty against a single target, same story here. Sooner or later the player base will move away from the deathball in favor of a better tactic. Really not that hard to counter - have disperson between mechs, watch for the smoke, and know where cover is.

More often than not, I'm seeing it spammed on single/double targets rather than deathballs.

Heck, I was on Crimson today and I had no less than six airstrikes fired at me. Most missed, but...

Did I mention I was the only guy on top at the time? They must REALLY hate missile launchers or something.

[Jman5]

What I'd like to see are the strikes doing less damage to smaller mechs. I get hit by a strike in an assault and it's merely annoying. I get hit by a strike in my light and I'm nearly dead.

[Shifty McSwift]

Jman5, on 06 August 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

What I'd like to see are the strikes doing less damage to smaller mechs. I get hit by a strike in an assault and it's merely annoying. I get hit by a strike in my light and I'm nearly dead.

If possible mete out the damage percentage based on how fast the mech hit was moving at the time when hit, this way if the huge AOE of a strike unintentionally hits a light who was just breezing through the area at 160kph, he is minimally affected, whereas the actual target, a camping assault moving 0 kph, takes full damage.

[Elfcat]

I am just starting to carry these things. It seems like a cool feature particularly for a mech designed with stealh armor and a lot of engine, as it's the only way to do some damage. I assume there are no kill or KMDDs for an airstrike or arty striek which happens to hit the jackpot, but maybe I'm wrong, no idea if it even shows up on the Damage Done count.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

1. Please don't necro old threads, make a new one if you want to talk about the topic.
2. You will get kills and KMDD's if appropriate with artillery or air strikes, they will even be credited to you if your mech is destroyed before the strike hits.
3. The damage your artillery or air strikes do is fully credited towards your match results, as long as it happens before your mech is destroyed (as opposed to 2.)

[Fish Baby]

Yumoshiri, on 06 August 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

it is inevitable the airstrike will see a nerf due to them overperforming and crippling the game, leaderboards and whatnot.

When's the last time anything was nerfed or buffed in this game? How many employees are even left? Game's on life support.

[VonBruinwald]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 06 August 2020 - 11:36 PM, said:

1. Please don't necro old threads, make a new one if you want to talk about the topic.

Nothing wrong with necromancy.

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[OneTeamPlayer]

VonBruinwald, on 07 August 2020 - 12:41 AM, said:

Nothing wrong with necromancy.

Moderators routinely lock necromancied threads. =P

One has a specific Turn Undead image for that express purpose