112 replies to this topic

[Mjr Disaster]

The "matchmaker" is the problem, I'm simply not good enough to play at the level it's decided i should, I end up getting stomped by an entire lance, repeatedly, so what should I do, hide? The game simply isn't fun when you PUG against an organized unit, 3 mechs working in unison is enough to turn the balance. There is no point playing, and the game is going to lose me unless it changes SOMETHING, and for the "git GUD" brigade, fine, I'm bad, I accept that, but I CANNOT avoid playing in match's where I get stomped, so how can I get any better? Basically "Teir 1" being the top does nothing to separate the very good from the merely persistent.

[mike29tw]

Zergling, on 06 August 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

The "wannabe drop caller"; he orders the team to push-push-push... right into an enemy firing line. Then he refuses to admit he did anything wrong when the team gets chewed up.

This one I hate the most.

"Push" isn't the magic I win button. You don't push when the terrain favors their position. I've seen countless time a friendly assault calls a push and wade straight up into an enemy firing line and blame his team for not following.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Coolant, on 06 August 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

OP, you are not the best player on the planet and you shouldn't be giving advice. Let people play what is fun to them...with all due respect, the mech world does not revolve around you.

Did i ever say i was the best ? Play a couple matches with me on your team i guarantee i will help you toward victory and not throw the match in idiotic fashion. That's all i'm asking is to be paired with other players that are aware of the basics.

My average season stats do not accurately define me as a player. I have 140 mechs and play them all some are better than others. I also try different builds, not always what i'm better with. There is only so much you can do in this game i try to diversify to keep it interesting.Now, when i play my best mechs with best load outs i can be pretty decent.

I'm also fortunate enough to be in a great unit that has allowed me to drop call and have had fairly good success. I'm not sure why you feel i'm not qualified to give advice when 40 unit mates feel i am. Are there better players absolutely... someone is always better.

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 07 August 2017 - 02:07 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Vellron2005, on 06 August 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

I get it that you're frustrated, and that you want to play with better players, but I'm guessing that you yourself was once a potato.. so don't be all tryhard elitist and dump on the little guys.. they have to learn, and in the current state of the game, it's exactly the mentality that is ruining the game..

Here's why:

1) You begin as potato, and then git gud
2) You dump on potatoes who did not git gud yet
3) Non-gud potatoes feel bullied and sad, and they quit the game.
4) People quitting the game produces a smaller population.
5) A smaller population means the MM MUST match tryhards with potatoes.
6) The Tryhards whine and bully more potatoes and the circle completes, running steps 3-6 over and over until there are to few people to justify the PGI's server power bill and they shut the servers down.

You get it now?

Posts like this will only produce MORE unskilled players for your tryhard metamech to stomp, and drive from the game..

Here's what you can do though:

1) Stop being a bullying tryhard.
2) Accept that people play with different styles and builds
3) Accept that player population is currently too low for the MM to work properly.
4) Instead of bulling people with posts like this, or in-game voip tryhardism, TEACH THEM. Invite them into training sessions (they are free now). Show them why certain things work and don't work. Teach them to play LRMs, snipe, and brawl effectively.
5) Approach them with a positive attitude, instead of a negative one. Explain to them in a peaceful, helpful manner, why what they are doing is counter-productive. DO NOT force your playstyle and build meta on them. Instead, help them find what works for them.

If you do at least some of the above stated, maybe the result will be a positive outlook on the game, and then maybe they invite their friends, the playerbase grows, and the MM will be able to do it's job, and you will get matched with "potatoes" less..

Also.. one important thing..

Don't call inexperienced players potatoes.. its rude..

Listen man i put in on average 2 hours every day into this hobby for almost 2 years ( I'm not a loser i swear :-P ). The first couple months sure i was a potato, my unit taught me some stuff and i moved up the ranks over time to teach others. I like to think I've helped a lot of players along the way. I understand players don't know things in the beginning but the match maker should keep those players together. The elite players should play the elite players, the average joe's like myself should play other average joe's and the rookies well they should play rookies. That's all i'm saying. I think the term potato is a lot friendlier than some stuff people call each other in the sports world.

[Tarl Cabot]

Racerxintegra2k, on 07 August 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:

..... I understand players don't know things in the beginning but the match maker should keep those players together. The elite players should play the elite players, the average joe's like myself should play other average joe's and the rookies well they should play rookies. That's all i'm saying. I think the term potato is a lot friendlier than some stuff people call each other in the sports world.

The only thing we really have control over is what each of us does in and out of the game. PGI has setup the MM system (PSR+MM) in its current form. When it first came out it was seeded from Elo information and most players posted liking it (if only we knew then what we know now...), but both the previous setup and the current setup has been flawed. Some of it is the population, the other is the current PSR is, more or less, an experience bar. Majority of the who play often enough tend to move up, some slower than others, while there are many who do not play often enough to keep sharp, etc, etc, etc.

Now, with that said, a T2 seeds the drop, picks up a few other T3/T2/T1 then at that moment the others available with the desire weight class are T4/T5. Or turn it around. T4 seeds the drops, picks up a few other T3/T4/T5 then opens up w/T2/T1. All it takes is a dropcaller to step up and herd the cats against the other side of cats that are just scattering all over the place.

Many of us have all seen what a team with direction can do vs a team with no direction, even with a herd mentality, the team that is aggressive when needed vs a timid team.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Tarl Cabot, on 07 August 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

The only thing we really have control over is what each of us does in and out of the game. PGI has setup the MM system (PSR+MM) in its current form. When it first came out it was seeded from Elo information and most players posted liking it (if only we knew then what we know now...), but both the previous setup and the current setup has been flawed. Some of it is the population, the other is the current PSR is, more or less, an experience bar. Majority of the who play often enough tend to move up, some slower than others, while there are many who do not play often enough to keep sharp, etc, etc, etc.

Now, with that said, a T2 seeds the drop, picks up a few other T3/T2/T1 then at that moment the others available with the desire weight class are T4/T5. Or turn it around. T4 seeds the drops, picks up a few other T3/T4/T5 then opens up w/T2/T1. All it takes is a dropcaller to step up and herd the cats against the other side of cats that are just scattering all over the place.

Many of us have all seen what a team with direction can do vs a team with no direction, even with a herd mentality, the team that is aggressive when needed vs a timid team.

Herding cats is more frustration that it is worth. Sure sometimes you can rally the team but most times its just toxic to even speak. The Tier system means nothing. I've seen Tier 3's that can wipe the floor with me and I've seen Tier 3's that are so bad i cringe. Hell i'm a sliver from Tier 1 and i will get absolutely wrecked by elite players that are also Tier 1. Balancing match making from our Tier system sets up a frustrating game experience for everyone. I've tried to bring a lot of my real life friends to the game but after 5 matches where they do 40 damage they quit.

[Bigbacon]

get over it and play or don't play...

Don't expect people to play to your standards or expectations.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Should make Tiers Seasonal.

Every 3 months, drop everyone's tier by lets say 3 tiers.

So T0 (aka top 10% of players) drop to T2.

Normal T1 players drop to T3. T2 players drop to T4, etc, etc.

That way people are constantly rising to T1, the better ones will rise way faster and get back to T1 asap. For the rest of the people (like me) that get to T1 by time they will be stuck at the lower Tiers longer and play with the pros way less. By the time, they get to T1, will be time for another reset.

Because honestly as a Potato, I want to play with other Potatoes and not Pro T1 players.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 07 August 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Anyways, MM is not that bad for me at least.

My Win Loss ratio is near 1. That would means that the MM is doing it's job right?

[Spr1ggan]

mike29tw, on 07 August 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

This one I hate the most.

"Push" isn't the magic I win button. You don't push when the terrain favors their position. I've seen countless time a friendly assault calls a push and wade straight up into an enemy firing line and blame his team for not following.

Well the problem with "push" is that most players seem to think it means run into the enemy and facehug them while spamming the "need assistance" button.

A push can simply be pushing the other team off of highground or advantageous terrain, thus securing it for yourself to use.

Gaden Phoenix, on 07 August 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Anyways, MM is not that bad for me at least.

My Win Loss ratio is near 1. That would means that the MM is doing it's job right?

At the same time there are many players with much lower and higher W/L ratios.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 07 August 2017 - 09:57 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Bigbacon, on 07 August 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

get over it and play or don't play...

Don't expect people to play to your standards or expectations.

Man i'd hate to live in your world. No discussion allowed. Black or white no 50 shades of grey for you. I think players being matched based on skill is a very important issue that should be addressed. I'm guessing most players take your advice and simply stop playing. That attitude doesn't really help the people that stick around.

[RussianWolf]

Racerxintegra2k, on 07 August 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

Man i'd hate to live in your world. No discussion allowed. Black or white no 50 shades of grey for you. I think players being matched based on skill is a very important issue that should be addressed. I'm guessing most players take your advice and simply stop playing. That attitude doesn't really help the people that stick around.

simply not enough people playing at any one point in time for the MM to do much else.

[Zergling]

Koniving, on 06 August 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

Also: What kind of potato am I?

Your stats suggest you are Tier 5 and still performing poorly, which means a particularly high level of starch.

Vellron2005, on 06 August 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

1) You begin as potato, and then git gud

The majority of potatoes never 'git gud'.

They are either delusional enough to think they are doing good when they aren't, or they realise they aren't doing good, but still sufficiently delusional to blame their failures on everything but themselves.
Either way, they never accept responsibility for their failure, so they never try to actually improve.

[Galenit]

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

The majority of potatoes never 'git gud'.

They are either delusional enough to think they are doing good when they aren't, or they realise they aren't doing good, but still sufficiently delusional to blame their failures on everything but themselves.
Either way, they never accept responsibility for their failure, so they never try to actually improve.

If you cant bear pick up play and its randomness...
There is a simple solution: play group or privat matches, there you can control who is in your team and if you play privat, who is your enemy.
No randomness, no vegetables, only extrem metawhoring, hardcore tryharding and other comp stuff
(If you want that?).


This small but loud minority with their tryhard and elitist attitude and all that "comp" talk are not good for the most games. They are only a very small minority, but they are able to destroy the fun of lots of people.

Because they are so loud in the forums, living in their own bubble with mostly other hardcore and comp players,
they dont even recognize that more then 80% (a few years ago i would have said more then 90%, but lots of casual players are gone.) of the playerbase dont go to the forums, dont play comp or do that metawhoring and tryharding stuff, they just want to relax and play and have fun.

Its on the devs to seperate all the comptryhards from the casual potheads.

Edited by Galenit, 07 August 2017 - 11:06 AM.

[Zergling]

Galenit, on 07 August 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

If you cant bear pick up play and its randomness...
There is a simple solution: play group or privat matches, there you can control where is in your team and if you play privat, where is your enemy.
No randomness, no vegetables, only extrem metawhoring, hardcore tryharding and other comp stuff
(If you want that?).

Competitive players would probably stop hating on the potatoes so much, if there wasn't a matchmaker in place that punished the above average players and rewarded the bads, by intentionally teaming the good players with bad teammates.

But because there is such a matchmaker working in MWO, good players will hate their bad teammates for causing losses.

Galenit, on 07 August 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

This small but loud minority with their tryhard and elitist attitude and all that "comp" talk are not good for the most games. They are only a very small minority, but they are able to destroy the fun of lots of people.


Because they are so loud in the forums, living in their on bubble with mostly other hardcore and comp players,

they dont even recognize that more then 80% (a few years ago i would have said more then 90%, but lots of casual players are gone.) of the playerbase dont go to the forums, dont play comp or do that metawhoring and tryharding stuff, they just want to relax and play and have fun.

Its on the devs to seperate all the compplayers and tryhards from the casual potheads or build a game only for them.

Player versus player games and competitive players go hand in hand, and can't be separated in any way. Otherwise you don't have a PvP game.

Edited by Zergling, 07 August 2017 - 11:14 AM.

[RussianWolf]

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Competitive players would probably stop hating on the potatoes so much, if there wasn't a matchmaker in place that punished the above average players and rewarded the bads, by intentionally teaming the good players with bad teammates.

Okay, say PGI flips the switches and you only play T1 and T2 players (not that they are all "good") and your queue time increase to 5 minutes. Will you be happy?

[Zergling]

RussianWolf, on 07 August 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Okay, say PGI flips the switches and you only play T1 and T2 players (not that they are all "good") and your queue time increase to 5 minutes. Will you be happy?

Queue times already are (frequently) 5 minutes for Tier 1 players, try again.

It'd also require a rework of the PSR Tier system, so there isn't a positive bias; it'd require strictly defined skill levels for each Tier, instead of the 'everyone above a certain level of skill will eventually hit Tier 1, if they play enough battles' as PSR works now.

And it's ultimately a pointless argument, because MWO doesn't have the playerbase for such a Tier bracketing. Games like Starcraft have that sort of playerbase, but MWO never will.

Edited by Zergling, 07 August 2017 - 11:20 AM.

[RussianWolf]

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Queue times already are (frequently) 5 minutes for Tier 1 players, try again.

fine, increase it to 10 or 15 minutes. Then what? The point is you are getting games with T3s and below because the population isn't large enough to have "competitive" games all the time and queue times that are reasonable. What is your solution?

[Galenit]

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Competitive players would probably stop hating on the potatoes so much, ...

Hating someone because he is less seriously playing a virtual computer game in his spare time then you?

If you dont understand whats wrong with that, you have a real rl problem ...

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Player versus player games and competitive players go hand in hand, and can't be separated in any way. Otherwise you don't have a PvP game.

Lots of games are able to seperate them to some degree or total,
using a working matchmaker, a comp-mode, leagues, ...

RussianWolf, on 07 August 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

fine, increase it to 10 or 15 minutes. Then what? The point is you are getting games with T3s and below because the population isn't large enough to have "competitive" games all the time and queue times that are reasonable. What is your solution?

Not possible, because tier progression in this game is only an xp-bar,
nearly no chance to go down, after some time everyone will be tier 1.

Edited by Galenit, 07 August 2017 - 11:23 AM.

[RussianWolf]

And it will only get worse if PGI fixes the Tier system since a LOT of T1s would be demoted and not included your games again.