92 replies to this topic

[Lucifaust]

I've always been a heavy ballistics user, and I've tried just about everything. I can say with a degree of certainty that lbx in general is underpowered. It's a shame because they seem different and would be nice to have some other types of viable ballistics. Well, I always did my utmost best to make them work, but like others have said, they only shine against exposed components, but since the whole game is essentially armor stripping, lbx would only be any use late game. The nature of mwo battle favors early advantage. If one team gains a kill advantage in a match, likely, the extra standing mech will tip the scales even further in their favor. So yes, enemy team will have a lot of exposed mechs to fire at with your LBX, but you'll lose anyway.

Why? Instead of packing uac5's to punch through armor at decent range, you loaded dual lbx 5 like a tard to pitter-patter away impotently as your team dies around you.

Maybe they are working as intended. If so, I'm not impressed. Maybe they aren't, and I'm pointing out an already evident problem. All in all, I'd like to see a boost to IS/clan LBX in some way. Thoughts?

Edited by Lucifaust, 11 August 2017 - 04:50 PM.

[Khobai]

The only real way to fix LBX is to give it ammo switching.

Because thats the only way you can justify an 11 crit LB20X. if it can fire an AC20 slug at greater range and for less heat than an AC20 while also having the option to switch to cluster rounds.

[Lucifaust]

Khobai, on 07 August 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

The only real way to fix LBX is to give it ammo switching.

Because thats the only way you can justify an 11 crit LB20X. if it can fire an AC20 slug at greater range and for less heat than an AC20 while also having the option to switch to cluster rounds.

I think if it could do that, I'd always take the LBX in every situation I could vs the ac20.

I just would like LBX to be viable, not superior to other ballistics. Because right now, nobody who knows better runs lbx. Maybe damage buff per pellet, or less pellets, or even greater velocity, or range, or less crit slots. There are a lot of ways to raise lbx from gimmick status to a level of solid competence. I just wish devs would lend an ear on this.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think if it could do that, I'd always take the LBX in every situation I could vs the ac20.

Its supposed to be a direct upgrade to the AC20

although if you didnt want to make the AC20 obsolete, you could reverse the stats on the LB20X and AC20: give the AC20 the longer range and lower heat.

[Lucifaust]

Khobai, on 07 August 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Its supposed to be a direct upgrade to the AC20

although if you didnt want to make the AC20 obsolete, you could reverse the stats on the LB20X and AC20: give the AC20 the longer range and lower heat.

That would make sense, since the ac20 would only be engineered to fire the one type of round. The lbx could fire both, but wouldn't fire the slug as well as the actual ac20. ^Good idea imo.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

What I don't get is why they have to insist on 'crit seeking' LBXes. When a mech is opened, it's very rare that crits come into play for very long before the entire component goes poof.

Why can't they just do a damage falloff on LBXes? Start it at 1.4 damage per pellet at 0m (14 damage for LBX10, or 28 for LBX20, etc) ramping down to 1.0 damage per pellet at one-third of max range, and then flat from there (as the spread takes care of damage falloff from that point on, given its current spread pattern). That would give it an extremely powerful short-range punch, while letting the standard ACs, ultras or RACs work better at mid-long.

[El Bandito]

Since PGI can't do select ammo, I will keep saying that LBX pellet damage should be increased while its max range reduced.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 August 2017 - 10:39 PM.

[Nerokar]

Yea, I like my Scorch with dual LBX20. But beside of some few mechs and builds where LBX works, this weapon is outclassed by UACs and even by some ACs.

My favoite solution for this problem would be (completely utopian) an implemetation of kinetic energy. If enough enegry is translated to a mech in a short timespan from one direction it would fall to the ground... and need to stand up again.

Lasers would get no kinetic energy, LRMs, MRMs, UACs and ACs low to medium ammount of it and LBX and SRMs would translate a huge ammount to their victims... This would make LBX a fearsome weapon AND it would buff the brawl...

But I know, it will not happen, because the implementation is realy difficult. Physics for standing mechs, running mechs, for different impact angles have to be calculated. Every single mech ingame need new set of animations... And all the new balancing issues would be huge...

[Karl Streiger]

I must admit i really like the idea to have this damage drop off - seriously I it didn't happen often that i fire a targets >500m out with LBX. So the tripple range is effectively irrelevant.
But to have high damage at the start and a drop of sounds solid - although it would make the LB10X and the LB20X useable and the LB2X or LB5X would become irrelevant too.

Although what if the LB2X and LB5X would behave like slow reloading slug throwers? The C-AC or the isAC would still have shorter range but shoot faster

[Spheroid]

@Bandito: We already have that, its called boated SRMs which accomplish the same result at less weight.

[DaMuchi]

So why do uac and ac outclass lbx? The primary reason, other than double tapping with uacs, is that lbx quickly loses relevance because of spread. This is most prevalent in lbx 20. But lbx has no bullet drop and has a very fast projectile, making it easy to hit distant targets. So we have a silly problem here, it's easy to hit a distant target but the damage is so spread out that it doesn't even matter. So the window to properly utilize the lbx is much smaller than its counterparts. Imo, reducing spread and velocity will bring the weapon will increase the size of this window and therefore make it relevant.

[HGAK47]

Well I enjoy the LB 20-X AC on the Spirit bear. I have tried switching that out for pretty much every thing else but the 20 single "blob" of damage is nice. Dont get me wrong if I could drop in a Clan Heavy Gauss? or single shot AC20 then that would be preferable but until then....

Spheroid, on 07 August 2017 - 11:19 PM, said:

@Bandito: We already have that, its called boated SRMs which accomplish the same result at less weight.

I would imagine heat and rate of fire would differ though right?

[Tincan Nightmare]

They could change it from a shotgun firing a cloud of projectiles, to a single shot weapon where the round explodes on impact. Have it do most of the damage to the location the round hits, then spread damage to adjacent areas, basically a ballistic CERPPC. One of the benefits LBX series AC's had in TT was greater range over standard AC's, for either standard or cluster ammo, but you don't see that benefit in MWO because it's spread style of firing means that you are hardly scratching a target at range due to dispersion of the pellets. Making it fire a solid slug that detonates on impact would allow it to get maximum benefit of it's range advantage, making it just as useful at long ranges as up close brawls. IS single slug AC's would still apply more direct damage to a location, but they could give a boost to the LBX series guns cooldown, allowing them a greater rate of fire to compensate for some of its damage being applied to surrounding locations from where the hit occured, and retaining the bonus to crit damage.

[Karl Streiger]

Tincan Nightmare, on 08 August 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

They could change it from a shotgun firing a cloud of projectiles, to a single shot weapon where the round explodes on impact. Have it do most of the damage to the location the round hits, then spread damage to adjacent areas, basically a ballistic CERPPC. One of the benefits LBX series AC's had in TT was greater range over standard AC's, for either standard or cluster ammo, but you don't see that benefit in MWO because it's spread style of firing means that you are hardly scratching a target at range due to dispersion of the pellets. Making it fire a solid slug that detonates on impact would allow it to get maximum benefit of it's range advantage, making it just as useful at long ranges as up close brawls. IS single slug AC's would still apply more direct damage to a location, but they could give a boost to the LBX series guns cooldown, allowing them a greater rate of fire to compensate for some of its damage being applied to surrounding locations from where the hit occured, and retaining the bonus to crit damage.

a single round with splash damage would be the best option simple because it reduces the server load (2 x 23 calculations for dual LB20X rather then 40 x 23) - not to mention that you can do the same for missile (2 SRM or 5 LRM = 1 missile)

[Dago Red]

I've always been for the basic people increase damage per pellet solution or my personal solution increasing rate of fire and ammo per ton to make it a superior sandblaster.

Edited by Dago Red, 09 August 2017 - 12:13 AM.

[Lucifaust]

The damage drop off makes sense. The lbx is pretty much a shotgun after all. Trying to make it work at long range will just morph it over time into a lesser ac/uac as its spread will no doubt be reduced.

The spread of the rounds is a fundamental aspect of the lbx and renders it not very effective at long range other than bathing the enemy in BB's...

LBX short range advantage should be emphasized and a damage drop off (with greater damage up close) is the best way to do this imo, other than simply buffing its stats like damage/fire rate/more ammo.

Edited by Lucifaust, 08 August 2017 - 03:40 PM.

[Athom83]

Lucifaust, on 07 August 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

I think if it could do that, I'd always take the LBX in every situation I could vs the ac20.

Except then you couldn't fit an LFE engine.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 07 August 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

Since PGI can't do select ammo, I will keep saying that LBX pellet damage should be increased while its max range reduced.

Agreed, just give them the IS-SRM Damage bonus +0.15Damage,

so each LBX Pellot would do 1.15Damage,
(LBX2=2.30Damage)(LBX5=5.75Damage)(LBX10=11.5Damage)(LBX20=23Damage)

this wouldnt make them better than UACs but would help them be viable,
one of the Pellots of an LBX5 could miss and you would still do nearly 5Damage,

[Bud Crue]

Khobai, on 07 August 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

The only real way to fix LBX is to give it ammo switching.

Because thats the only way you can justify an 11 crit LB20X. if it can fire an AC20 slug at greater range and for less heat than an AC20 while also having the option to switch to cluster rounds.

Actually, I suspect that PGI justifies the 11 crit under the rationalization that it needs to be similarly voluminous as two LBX10s (12 crits at 6 each) other wise for those stupid/crazy enough to run LBX would just run the LBX20 because, despite the listed range everyone knows that the LBX is essentially a short range weapon. In other words,why run two 10s when you can just take a single 20 with all that weight savings (22 tons vs 14).

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 August 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

Agreed, just give them the IS-SRM Damage bonus +0.15Damage,

so each LBX Pellot would do 1.15Damage,
(LBX2=2.30Damage)(LBX5=5.75Damage)(LBX10=11.5Damage)(LBX20=23Damage)

this wouldnt make them better than UACs but would help them be viable,
one of the Pellots of an LBX5 could miss and you would still do nearly 5Damage,

IMO, buffing the LBX pellet damage to at least 1.3 is necessary for people to pick LBX as much as UACs and IS ACs.