44 replies to this topic

[Composite Armour]

A good, 100% flat, dense city map with long, narrow streets and tall buildings is what we need.

[Dr Hobo]

Maps that don't feel like lanes but have cover.

A destroyed city,a star port,a destructible industrial park,a housing district.

A heavily wooded forest etc.

[Methanoid]

Dr Hobo, on 10 August 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

Maps that don't feel like lanes but have cover.

A destroyed city,a star port,a destructible industrial park,a housing district.

A heavily wooded forest etc.

and all using a gfx engine thats actually modernised to give the maps a better feel, a lot of maps feel static/bland like they were made with the halflife1 engine and our current ageing cryengine3 from 2009 does not do the game justice.

[ocular tb]

MrMadguy, on 10 August 2017 - 04:08 AM, said:

...How can we have new maps, if we barely play existing ones?

Simple solution is to just go back to random map rotation. Anecdotal evidence here, but a lot of times when the map vote comes up it's Frozen City, Polar Highlands, Alpine Peaks, and something else. I can tolerate any of them but Polar and Frozen usually end up winning and so they end up getting played too often I think. Back before map voting was a thing, maps got fairly even play time. As it is, some barely come up for the vote and when they do they almost always lose and so they don't see much play time. New maps would either see a lot of play time or almost none. To alleviate this problem, I think random selection with no vote is the way to go.

Ajantise, on 09 August 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

There are a lot of games that take 5-7 minutes for the teams just to find each other and then all mechs are on 1/20 part of the map to the end. That is not good i think. No maneuver at all.

The only map I can see that happening on would be Polar Highlands since it's so big and has relatively low terrain so it's not easy to see the enemy team. But even then I think the teams tend to find each other within 4 minutes or so. Now, can it take longer than that for the match to actually get interesting and move away from long range shooting? Sure, I see that sometimes-especially on Frozen City. But as it is, most of the maps have decent visibility, high enough terrain features for scouting, and are small enough that it's hard not to see the enemy team.


What I'd like to see them do is add back in the 6 original maps (both Frozen Cities, both Forest Colonies, Caustic Valley, and Terra Therma). I didn't include the original River City since it's almost the same as it was but with more outlying areas. They could add those back in as a bonus if they wanted. That would be 6 maps that could be options that we don't currently have. They played differently than the new ones and I think having those back in would please a lot of players (myself especially). And going back to random rotation of course with the ability to select which mode to play would be nice as well.

Edited by ocular tb, 10 August 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Methanoid]

Random map rotation for me would =

any hot map = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.
any gamemode other than assault, domination, skirmish = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.

such is the hate for various maps and utterly useless gamemodes and thats just the bearable Quick Play, obviously i 100% avoid FP and CP, thats how much loved a HUGE chunk of MWO is like for a casual like me, all my friends/family who tried this didnt even stick around for more than a day or so because of the frustration/hate for huge chunks of the maps/gamemodes (whereas they enjoyed MW4 vanilla, battledrome, hawken and a few others, so its not a "hate mechs" thing.)...

[Dr Hobo]

Methanoid, on 10 August 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

Random map rotation for me would =

any hot map = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.
any gamemode other than assault, domination, skirmish = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.

such is the hate for various maps and utterly useless gamemodes and thats just the bearable Quick Play, obviously i 100% avoid FP and CP, thats how much loved a HUGE chunk of MWO is like for a casual like me, all my friends/family who tried this didnt even stick around for more than a day or so because of the frustration/hate for huge chunks of the maps/gamemodes (whereas they enjoyed MW4 vanilla, battledrome, hawken and a few others, so its not a "hate mechs" thing.)...

So stop building stupidly hot mechs? Trigger control? Try different chassis?

I don't mean to be an ***,but downing your team a man repeatedly should just get you reported and stuck in the mechbay.

I'd be cool with voting on modes,but not maps. I'm tired of playing Polar,Alpine and Frozen Garbage.

[Paigan]

Ajantise, on 09 August 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

1. Cut new maps in half. Nobody uses the size. Its just a performance load, and it does not bring anything good.
Voting proves that. Every time there is a small map, it wins.

[...]

The current maps' size is not used because there is no mode that requires the player to use the size.
All modes basically boil down to meet in the middle (or some key location) and skirmish there.
(yes, even conquest)

If there was a mode that requires the teams to actually travel to certain different points each match (say a random selection of 10 points out of 30 predefined), then one of the current maps would feel like 10 small maps.

I'd rather have a few large maps that are unique and versatile instead of having a large number of basically just differently skinned skirmish arenas.
The current maps are that, but the modes just fail to utilize it.

Edited by Paigan, 10 August 2017 - 06:41 AM.

[Methanoid]

Dr Hobo, on 10 August 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

So stop building stupidly hot mechs? Trigger control? Try different chassis?

I don't mean to be an ***,but downing your team a man repeatedly should just get you reported and stuck in the mechbay.

I'd be cool with voting on modes,but not maps. I'm tired of playing Polar,Alpine and Frozen Garbage.

doesnt matter if i take all heat skill nodes and fit craptons of heat sinks, my clan mechs all end up garbage on any hot map, spend most of the match doing nothing but waiting for cooldown just to donate token damage.

I dont currently bail on maps, im saying if i had a 100% chance of never having a chance of picking a liked map i'd deffo bail in a heartbeat, theres no fun whatsoever in loads of maps/gamemmodes and being forced into them would deffo make me just walk.

Edited by Methanoid, 10 August 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[Paigan]

Methanoid, on 10 August 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

Random map rotation for me would =

any hot map = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.
any gamemode other than assault, domination, skirmish = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.

such is the hate for various maps and utterly useless gamemodes and thats just the bearable Quick Play, obviously i 100% avoid FP and CP, thats how much loved a HUGE chunk of MWO is like for a casual like me, all my friends/family who tried this didnt even stick around for more than a day or so because of the frustration/hate for huge chunks of the maps/gamemodes (whereas they enjoyed MW4 vanilla, battledrome, hawken and a few others, so its not a "hate mechs" thing.)...

And that is exactely why we need disconnect penalties.
You are not alone in the world.
This is not a single player game.
You are not some almighty god to whose moods everyone else subjects to.
If everyone else would do the same thing to you and disconnect on maps/modes that you like, what would you do?


Also:
Ever tried Alt+F4?
Can you imagine how your "CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4" makes you look?

And another also:
I play mostly laser vomit clan Mechs and I love hot maps, because it gives me an advantage over people who cannot control their heat as well. Heat is an integral tactical element in this game. Just like speed, armor, damage or range.
I you run too hot, it's your fault. Either in building the Mech and/or in controlling it.
L2P.

Edited by Paigan, 10 August 2017 - 06:49 AM.

[Methanoid]

Paigan, on 10 August 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

The current maps' size is not used because there is no mode that requires the player to use the size.
All modes basically boil down to meet in the middle (or some key location) and skirmish there.
(yes, even conquest)

If there was a mode that requires the teams to actually travel to certain different points each match (say a random selection of 10 points out of 30 predefined), then one of the current maps would feel like 10 small maps.

I'd rather have a few large maps that are unique and versatile instead of having a large number of basically just differently skinned skirmish arenas.
The current maps are that, but the modes just fail to utilize it.

the fact they just reuse existing maps makes the differing gamemodes all a joke, you need maps tailored to each gamemode not just randomly slap down a few capture points/etc in some symmetrically spaced areas and make do with that, this isnt unreal tournament'99 where you can make domination maps and ctf maps with virtually no changes and it all magically works out.

Here, Skirmish = fine, assault = fine because lets be real, its just skirmish, same with domination. Conquest and incursion needs remade maps where the capture points all actually have well made approach points, cover, etc and escort just needs to be deleted because its useless and confusing, even new maps wont save it.

[Methanoid]

Paigan, on 10 August 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

If everyone else would do the same thing to you and disconnect on maps/modes that you like, what would you do?

id understand why and hope the devs would get a clue and figure out why a huge chunk of their game puts off many players.

[Coolant]

just make more maps, and yes, I'm ok with them being arena. However we don't need less enemies on the battlefield. It's 12v12 just like it was in the vast majority of servers in MW4:Mercs.

[Dr Hobo]

Methanoid, on 10 August 2017 - 06:42 AM, said:

doesnt matter if i take all heat skill nodes and fit craptons of heat sinks, my clan mechs all end up garbage on any hot map, spend most of the match doing nothing but waiting for cooldown just to donate token damage.

I dont currently bail on maps, im saying if i had a 100% chance of never having a chance of picking a liked map i'd deffo bail in a heartbeat, theres no fun whatsoever in loads of maps/gamemmodes and being forced into them would deffo make me just walk.

I run a Cougar with ERML,HML,ATMs and I have no issues on hot maps. I run a dakkawhale on hot maps. I run a dakka crab on hot maps. I've run the Partyback on hot maps. My warrant is set up with 5MPL and 2HLL and I've run that on Tourmaline(one of the hottest maps) I've also run clans in the hottest maps in the game,what is it..Vitric Forge? Or something like that and I still don't shut down.

Learn to play on that one m8,don't alpha strike so much,set up your groups properly and alternate fire when you need to.

Methanoid, on 10 August 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

id understand why and hope the devs would get a clue and figure out why a huge chunk of their game puts off many players.

Strike spam,unintiuitve skill tree and quirks,poor maps,poor mechanics(aiming is one of them) and ghost heat that only gets a little blurb?

[Methanoid]

Dr Hobo, on 10 August 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Strike spam,unintiuitve skill tree and quirks,poor maps,poor mechanics(aiming is one of them) and ghost heat that only gets a little blurb?

unfortunatly when we all mention those things all we get back is minor tweaks of little use and more mech saturation, the bigger much needed thing is more maps, preferably actually built around specific gamemodes (conquest frozen city should differ appropriatly to skirmish frozen city not just having some lazy markers thrown in on the same map) and quite possible a gfx engine update. Also something team related that isnt a mess of confusion to replace FP/CP.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

3 POLAR HIGHLANDS IN A ROW.

That's not the map selection's fault. It's the people voting for Polar.

By comparison, last time I ended up with five Mining games in a row. Blame the people voting, PGI gives you 4 options each time and it's not like they were Polar, Polar, Polar, and Polar.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

any hot map = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.
any gamemode other than assault, domination, skirmish = CTRL+ALT+DEL / End Task b4 the match even started.

So basically, you're a chump who ditches your team the second the map selection doesn't agree with you, even if it might be because someone on the other team farmed that x12 multiplier on their vote just to troll you?

"Git gud" doesn't even begin to describe what you need, other than a vacation for breaking the TOS if you're doing that now.

[Methanoid]

Brain Cancer, on 10 August 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

So basically, you're a chump who ditches your team the second the map selection doesn't agree with you, even if it might be because someone on the other team farmed that x12 multiplier on their vote just to troll you?

"Git gud" doesn't even begin to describe what you need, other than a vacation for breaking the TOS if you're doing that now.

yeah because you cant read at all and blatantly decided to clip off the very start of my post which clearly states "Random map rotation for me would =", i clearly said there and 1 of my follow up posts that i dont do it now and would only do it when theres utterly no chance to vote for somethign i want, being forced to play several maps/gamemodes i find unenjoyable would result in me doing that, but yeah, believe whatever u want.

[Brain Cancer]

Fair enough. I just figured that if you can't handle a random hot map, a voted hot map would cause even more salt.

[BumbleBee]

I've found myself playing less and less since since map voting was brought in as I'm sick of playing the same 4-5 maps, and cheese builds have increased exponentially due to it as well, further sapping the fun out of the game

[MrMadguy]

ocular tb, on 10 August 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

Simple solution is to just go back to random map rotation. Anecdotal evidence here, but a lot of times when the map vote comes up it's Frozen City, Polar Highlands, Alpine Peaks, and something else. I can tolerate any of them but Polar and Frozen usually end up winning and so they end up getting played too often I think. Back before map voting was a thing, maps got fairly even play time. As it is, some barely come up for the vote and when they do they almost always lose and so they don't see much play time. New maps would either see a lot of play time or almost none. To alleviate this problem, I think random selection with no vote is the way to go.

Myth #1 - RNG will allow us to have diverse map rotation. No. Problem is with maps, offered for voting. If better maps, like Canyon, HPG, Mining, Turmaline would be offered - they would be picked. And with RNG rotation we will have the same Polar, River, Forest, Frozen, Polar, River, Forest, Frozen, etc. Bad thing - we won't be able to avoid terrible maps and pick at least "the best of the worst", i.e. something like Turmaline, Crimson and Plexus.

Paigan, on 10 August 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

The current maps' size is not used because there is no mode that requires the player to use the size.
All modes basically boil down to meet in the middle (or some key location) and skirmish there.
(yes, even conquest)

If there was a mode that requires the teams to actually travel to certain different points each match (say a random selection of 10 points out of 30 predefined), then one of the current maps would feel like 10 small maps.

I'd rather have a few large maps that are unique and versatile instead of having a large number of basically just differently skinned skirmish arenas.
The current maps are that, but the modes just fail to utilize it.

Myth #2 - problem is with game modes, not with map design. No. Do you understand, why players tend to move directly towards center of map? Because not all 'Mech are Lights and can move with 170kph speed and if map is way too big, then it takes too much time to actually stop playing WalkWarrior Online and finally start playing the game itself. There are Assaults and Heavies, that JUST PHYSICALLY CAN'T PLAY HIDE'N'SEEK AND CAPWARRIOR ONLINE WITH OTHER TEAM. Proper map size will eliminate this problem, as players will have alternative routes to use, that won't take 100500x more time and therefore won't cause fall offs from match for players, who will decide to use this routes.

Brain Cancer, on 10 August 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

That's not the map selection's fault. It's the people voting for Polar.

By comparison, last time I ended up with five Mining games in a row. Blame the people voting, PGI gives you 4 options each time and it's not like they were Polar, Polar, Polar, and Polar.

Myth #3 - players pick bad maps at their own will. No, that's because some good maps, like Canyon, HPG and Mining, are completely removed from rotation. If PGI would offer equally good maps for voting - players would start choosing maps according to "Let's play something new!" principle, as intended, not "Crap, only 1 map of 4 is actually playable - I don't have any other choice, than pick it" or "I'm vote troll and as bad maps pop way too often - I have nice ability to stack big enough multiplier to constantly bring them. MUUUUHAHA!".

Edited by MrMadguy, 11 August 2017 - 12:07 AM.