75 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Been thinking a bit on how to capture the concept of omnimechs, since MWO's mechlab allows so much customization it gets lost.

1) make the set bonuses 6/8 instead of 8/8 so you can swap upto two omnipods and still get full quirks.

2) replace 1-2 existing hardpoints on every omnimech variant with omnihardpoints that can equip any weapon type.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 09 August 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

how is making omnimechs worse than battlemechs balanced?

Hey! Hey! Hey! Allegedly, it was done in the name of balance! So go ask PGI the question, not me!

<Wasn't the sarcasm obvious/thick enough? >

Edited by Mystere, 09 August 2017 - 04:07 PM.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 09 August 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

To be fair, the concept of 8-pod quirks isn't bad on its own. The issue is that PGI sometimes uses those as the only quirks that a mech gets.

I think the system would be better if PGI used modular per-pod quirks for the majority of a mech's balancing (balance the mech based on the assumption that people will customize it), and then add a few set of 8 quirks to crappy stock variants for flavor sake.

That needs to be applied to battlemechs as well--such as PPC quirks on Warhammer's arm energy mounts only. Hardpoint based quirk is probably the most accurate method, IMO.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 09 August 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

omnimechs have locked equipment and now theyre punished by losing all their quirks for swapping omnipods which was their only advantage over battlemechs.

meanwhile battlemechs have completely unlocked equipment and get to keep all their quirks even on variants that have ideal hardpoint configs.

wow amaze balance... it makes NO sense to punish omnimechs for doing what they were built to do: swap omnipods.

As I said before, the set of 8 quirks are only there to prop up the stock build--to give the mech its personality, so to speak. They are separate from the quirks that help the mech to perform even post customization. Convoluted, but that is how it is.

[Nightbird]

Forget set of 8 quirks, just add more quirks to the under-used pods.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I just want the Executioner to finally get something going for it.

After the small pulse laser nerfs I really haven't found anything that can really bring it back up to par. I've done dual ERPPC in the high mounts, but its just a heavier Summoner with some small pulse lasers for up close but it loses the mobility that makes the Summoner good at its job. I've tried out the laser vomit builds, but an Ebon Jaguar does it much better.

It doesn't even have any quirks on it. The only mounts that can hold a UAC20 are lower than the hip, and the high mounted torso ballistic that can hold a gauss rifle has no space other than that, so your ammo has to go into the opposite side torso or an arm for it to get blown off early.

[Mawai]

Quick question for those with Timberwolves ... I don't have one myself. Which IS mechs of 75 tons or less are clearly better than a Timberwolf? (Not situationally better but strictly better in general). The Timberwolf used to be pretty much the best mech in the game ... is it now a bad mech or are folks mostly just lamenting that it is no longer the best?

[El Bandito]

Mawai, on 09 August 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

Quick question for those with Timberwolves ... I don't have one myself. Which IS mechs of 75 tons or less are clearly better than a Timberwolf? (Not situationally better but strictly better in general). The Timberwolf used to be pretty much the best mech in the game ... is it now a bad mech or are folks mostly just lamenting that it is no longer the best?

There is no 75 ton IS mech strictly better than the Timbie. Marauder can out-tank it, as long as no one is shooting its legs. Orion can out brawl it, and Black Kniggit, well... Black Kniggit is mediocre--even with its abundance of quirks.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2017 - 05:06 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Dakota1000, on 09 August 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

I just want the Executioner to finally get something going for it.

The Executioner and every other humanoid mech would be improved if PGI would put in code to allow each arm to temporarily be raised from its nut scratching locale. If not, why have arms at all? Then give it is own set of cross hairs, whether torso lock is enabled or not.

And Andii, there were no omnipods. The components themselves were modular by design (thank you grandpa Mongoose), so yes ASRM from a Clan med would fit into a Clan assault. And the pre-sets also meant the computer program and those presets, to account for a variety of things.

As for the 8/8, it makes sense from PGI viewpoint, to give each BASE configuration its own flavor, and hopefully it is for flavor and not used for continuing balancing means as it has been done in the past.

But then isXL still dies to the loss of one side torso....

[Pjwned]

More news that makes it less and less likely that quirks will ever be reduced to an appropriate level, i.e pretty much zero.

How exciting, I love it when we get this big spiel about how quirks are so busted and they need to be more or less removed but then it doesn't happen, or if it ever does happen then it will be over such a long period of time that it might as well be never.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mawai, on 09 August 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

Quick question for those with Timberwolves ... I don't have one myself. Which IS mechs of 75 tons or less are clearly better than a Timberwolf? (Not situationally better but strictly better in general). The Timberwolf used to be pretty much the best mech in the game ... is it now a bad mech or are folks mostly just lamenting that it is no longer the best?

The IS 75 tonners out brawl it. The Black Knight, Marauder, and Orion tend to have low mounts and act as brawlers, the Marauder 3R being a potential exception with high mounted ballistics. You have to drop down to 70 tonners for the Warhammer for a proper counter to the Timber Wolf.

In general, its hard to beat a Timber Wolf in a general purpose sense because the Timber Wolf is an omnimech with combinations that allow it to do practically anything. The Timber Wolf does pretty much anything reasonably well, but isn't really the best at any of those things and often gets beat by specialized mechs on IS or Clan side. Timber Wolf was the best mech in the game mostly due to lack of competition, now that more mechs are out with even more specialized roles, the Timber Wolf has been beat at everything where previously only the non PPC nip Summoner was the only other Clan heavy and the IS was filled with Cataphracts, Dragons, Thunderbolts, Jagermechs, Quickdraws and Catapults in the heavy category, most of which were sub optimal even compared to each other with the Jagermech standing out as the best ballistic platform but also a fragile glass cannon, and the Thunderbolt being a decent line mech only after a quirk pass, and the Catapult still being massively oversized.

The up coming IS 75 tonner Thanatos is looking to take top slot for best IS heavy, as they all have ECM, jump jets, are 75 tonners, and have reasonably high mounted torso weapons along with a good array of hardpoints, not to mention a 400 rated engine cap on most variants.

[Y E O N N E]

Dakota1000, on 09 August 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

The up coming IS 75 tonner Thanatos is looking to take top slot for best IS heavy, as they all have ECM, jump jets, are 75 tonners, and have reasonably high mounted torso weapons along with a good array of hardpoints, not to mention a 400 rated engine cap on most variants.

...all of that with the worst possible geometry to put on a 'Mech.

It's going to have a hard time gaining a critical mass of damage with its hardpoints, it'll get out-gunned by lighter 'Mechs like the GHR, WHM, and RGH.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

I'm not sure why people are complaining. Maybe it's not the buff you wanted, but it's a buff nontheless.

It gives greater flexibility in the sense that it give incentive to build around the stock omnipods rather than just carbon copy builds from one variant to the next with no insight put into anything else.

[FupDup]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 09 August 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

I'm not sure why people are complaining. Maybe it's not the buff you wanted, but it's a buff nontheless.

It gives greater flexibility in the sense that it give incentive to build around the stock omnipods rather than just carbon copy builds from one variant to the next with no insight put into anything else.

You're assuming that PGI will be purely adding with no subtracting elsewhere involved.

Another issue is that some gundams are poopy even when mixing pods.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

FupDup, on 09 August 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

You're assuming that PGI will be purely adding with no subtracting elsewhere involved.

Another issue is that some gundams are poopy even when mixing pods.

Nah, not on the EBJ and EXE at least. The heroes and additional variants don't show any nerfs to their agility.

HBR might get some, but my own perception is that it isn't quite that strong. We'll see when we get the preview.

Those are the only wave 2+3 mechs without 8-set quirks.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 August 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

...all of that with the worst possible geometry to put on a 'Mech.

It's going to have a hard time gaining a critical mass of damage with its hardpoints, it'll get out-gunned by lighter 'Mechs like the GHR, WHM, and RGH.

Its geometry might not end up too bad. The legs are rather tall on it and its torso is semi long rather than tall or wide, sorta cube-ish. The arms look like they'd soak up decent amounts of fire but not get blown off super easy. But this is all based on the concept art, and we know that it might not translate well into the ingame model.

We'll have to wait and see, but based solely on its potential with the ECM and hardpoints its looking to be pretty good except when it comes to boating lots of light lasers. If anything it'll at least be the best ECM heavy in the IS arsenal since the only two currently are the hero archer and an old cataphract.

I just have a thing for poptarts and ECM mechs, so the thing's a dream to me. I can see it now, jumping up and being able to poptart with a couple HPPCs and ECM along with either backup weapons or a whole load of cooling. It'll essentially be my current favorite Summoner dual ERPPC build but all the damage in one place and ECM for a loss of a little speed.

[Battlemaster56]

Snowbluff, on 09 August 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

I don't want that wolfcraft ****! This is Sea Fox territory! Everything is!

Listen, I've been digging through some old historical stuff. Found myself the history of Hollywood. THey used to iterate on their product EVERY YEAR. Do you know how much room their is to develop this stuff. There are 352 Fast and the Furious movies in the archive. It's not like we can't do it. The first Diamond Shark Madcat Mk. II was developed in only a year in the half. There is an opportunity we have here, especially if sales are hurting because no one has faith in the XXL product line. Ferro-Fibrous is the way of the future, and we need it to MOVE.

We can keep rehashing the Timberwolf but their many mechs can be made also I don't see many notable Reborn Sea Fox mechs other than Mk iv wolf. But we can settle our difference like true clan warriors.

[Y E O N N E]

Dakota1000, on 09 August 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Its geometry might not end up too bad. The legs are rather tall on it and its torso is semi long rather than tall or wide, sorta cube-ish. The arms look like they'd soak up decent amounts of fire but not get blown off super easy. But this is all based on the concept art, and we know that it might not translate well into the ingame model.

Cube is second only to an exaggerated cruciform as the the worst possible cross-section to have. Every component is super easy to pick out and none of them block any of them, making even an LFE something of a detriment. The arms only shield the sides if you are trying to shoot it from obliquely from the rear, else there is a huge gap to take advantage of.

It will be decent at the long-range game, and get shredded at mid and short ranges unless it gets enhancement to to its durability.

Quote

I just have a thing for poptarts and ECM mechs, so the thing's a dream to me. I can see it now, jumping up and being able to poptart with a couple HPPCs and ECM along with either backup weapons or a whole load of cooling. It'll essentially be my current favorite Summoner dual ERPPC build but all the damage in one place and ECM for a loss of a little speed.

We'll see. I generally prefer my pop-tarts to be more lithe than this. And with higher mounts.

[CancersCincar]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 August 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

Moar MLX quirks plz.

Thx.

Seconded.

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 09 August 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

Nah, not on the EBJ and EXE at least. The heroes and additional variants don't show any nerfs to their agility.

HBR might get some, but my own perception is that it isn't quite that strong. We'll see when we get the preview.

Those are the only wave 2+3 mechs without 8-set quirks.

Well, what about the Mist Lynx, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle and (to a lesser extent) the Shadow Cat? I mean, you must at least believe that the Gargoyle is pretty uninspiring.

Edited by CancersCincar, 09 August 2017 - 08:01 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

CancersCincar, on 09 August 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

Well, what about the Mist Lynx, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle and (to a lesser extent) the Shadow Cat? I mean, you must at least believe that the Gargoyle is pretty uninspiring.

Hard to say. Chris said that they'll both be revisiting quirks, and adding quirks to the wave 2+3 mechs that don't have them.

At the very least, it seems like the EBJ and EXE will only be gaining.