36 replies to this topic

[CK16]

Ok from strictly lore perspective over the FedCom Civil War what mechs were key players in this conflict? Not from what meta chassis or from Mechwarrior 4. This one is by the books.

My top ones I feel we need for this era not in game or announced yet?

-Templar
-Fafnir
-Sagittaire
-Hauptmann

All played key parts during the conflict for one side or the other. If not both.

[Athom83]

Chimera

Spoiler

Copperhead

Spoiler

Blood Asp

Spoiler

Avatar

Spoiler

And quite a few others.

[FLG 01]

Depends on how you define "key" Mech. The Sagittaire e.g. is not mentioned in any of the FCCW-novels, neither are Avatar or Chimera, and probably a lot others that will pop up in this thread.

If you go by the RATs, they are in. And so are dozens of others. I would not mind adhering to the RATs, it would be a step in the right direction. Since the FCCW is the last great conflict to be narrated in the novels in great detail I am naturally biased towards the novel point of view, but that usually goes along with the RATs.

Take the Falconer e.g.; it is a common Mech of the AFFS and the LAAF, and it shows up in the novels a lot. Actually it seems to be a kind of loyalist to-go Mech when the author requires stiff opposition as it is found opposing the heros with astonishing frequency (Alarion Jäger on Thorin, 11th Arcturan Guards and Republican Guards on Tikonov, 24th Lyran Guards on Tharkad, Remagen CMM on New Avalon, Halfway's Militia etc.).


Then there are the VIP Mechs, for example:

Victor Steiner-Davion: Daishi
Peter Steiner-Davion: Fafnir
Nondi Steiner: Hauptmann
Adam Steiner: Thunder Hawk
Ardan Sortek: Templar
Tranced Sandoval: Nightstar, Templar
Kai Allard-Liao: Centurion
Linda McDonald: King Crab
Raymund Irelon: Excalibur
Rudolf Shakov: Exterminator
Galen Cox: Devastator
Lori Carlyle: Victor
Archer Christifori: Penetrator
Michael Searcy: Dragon Fire, Pillager

[CK16]

Bump.

[Dr Mlem]

Would be nice to have Blood Asp. Chimera would be cool as well. Argus as well.

I think there are a lot of good candidate mechs regardless of perceived lore importance. A few IIC variants that would be great to have back as well. Infact obscure mechs are interesting because we've never seen them in videogames before.

[FLG 01]

CK16, on 09 August 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Bump.

Well then allow me to go ahead with the Lyran Alliance Armed Forces. I uploaded the RAT from the FM:U presenting the most common Mechs at the end of the Civil War (or just before the Jihad):






I assume the authors of the BattleTech novels were working with RATs (although probably those of the earlier FM series), so you will find a number of those Mechs in the novels. What are the most important Mechs? (Focussing on those we do not have in game, excluding Quads and melee Mechs).


Lights: light and medium Mechs are not very prominent in the FCCW-novels. My first search brought a lot of results for the Talon, but that is because the Talon is also the name of hotly contested moon and that of a Capellan general, not to mention the Jade Falcons who love the word 'talon'...

The Stiletto seems to have the greatest impact in the novels. That makes some sense as it was the new showcase light Mech presented in the FM:LA and its role in the novels may be a result of this.
Curiously absent are the classic Wasp and Stinger but that is likely a result of the original HG lawsuit.

Recommendation:

• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Stiletto

Mediums: again, medium Mechs are overshadowed. To my surprise, Cobra and Vulcan seem to be the most noticeable mediums, though this assessment may be incorrect.

Recommendations:

• http://www.sarna.net...ra_(BattleMech)
  
• http://www.sarna.net...an_(BattleMech)

Heavies: now we are talking... I realized the prominent role of the Falconer when I read the novels the first time (a short list is in my previous post), but there are others.
I was surprised about the Dragon Fire. This is piloted by some important people (though perhaps not VIPs) like Julie Hoffman, CO of the Alarion Jäger. The list of named characters in the cockpit of a Dragon Fire is actually rather long and it be found in most of the FCCW-novels:

Spoiler

• Michael Searcy, Solaris VII (main character of Illusions of Victory)
  
• Aubry Larsen, Solaris VII
  
• Billy Dragomil, 9th Ghost Regiment
  
• Gerald DuBois, Fighting Urukhai
  
• Julie Hoffman, Alarion Jäger
  
• Baroness Monique Reins, 2nd Robinson Rangers
  
• Gerst, Kathil CMM
  
• (Plus a lot of unknown characters dying in their Dragonfires; it is a quite a common sight in the novels)

Its faster and ECM equipped cousin, the Maelstrom, is also notable but not on the same level.

Then there is the Penetrator. Being the Mech of a central character, Archer Christifori, we naturally read a lot about it. However it is a common sight regardless of Christifori, found in the ranks of loyalists and allies alike.

Other notables include Cestus, Rakshasa, and Caesar.


Recommendations:

• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Falconer
  
• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dragon_Fire
  
• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Penetrator

Assaults: It is pretty easy when it comes to assaults. The Fafnir has only one appearance but that one is extremely important, as it is chosen ride of Archon Peter Steiner-Davion when liberating Tharkad. The Hauptmann comes up more often but again its significance stems from its most famous pilot, Nondi Steiner and her showdown with Peter. Quite the same is true for the Thunder Hawk and Adam Steiner, who had an equally cinematic duel with Victor Steiner-Davion, but he is featured more often than both Nondi and Peter.


Recommendations:

• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fafnir
  
• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hauptmann
  
• http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_Hawk

Lazer Doggo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Infact obscure mechs are interesting because we've never seen them in videogames before.

A good number of the Mechs listed above have never been in a video game before.

[Karl Streiger]

When scanning what I can remember from the novels - those Mechs come in mind:

• Devastator -> Kathil
  
• Berserker -> DarHes Salam, Thuban
  
• Cerberus -> Kathil
  
• Banshee -> New Syrtis
  
• Highlander -> New Syrtis
  
• Templar -> New Syrtis
  
• Gunslinger -> Kathil, Thorin
  
• Salamander -> Thorin, New Syrtis
  
• Hatamoto Chi .-> New Syrtis
  
• Zeus
  
• Falconer -> Kathil, New Syrtis
  
• Barghest -> Coventry, Tinkonov
  
• Cestus -> Kathil
  
• Argus -> New Syrtis
  
• Bushwacker -> Kathil
  
• Hunchback -> Tinkonov
  
• Enforcer
  
• Garm -> New Syrtis

Chimera or Hellspawn were afaik not mentioned

[Lord0fHats]

I suspect the Blood Asp will be coming soon. it's one of the most requested Clan Assaults, and the only thing that kept it out was no heavy lasers. There's the Turkina and Kingfisher too, but the Turkina is just a Dire Wolf with 10 less tones and the Kingfisher will be dead on arrival. Given though that the Clans just recently got two 90 ton assaults in a row though I'd be surprised if it was next up. My money is on a new light mech, or the Black Lanner (ugh).Maybe the Cerberus which would be nice... though I'd like it to be the MW4 Mercs design, which was kick ***, and not the Wolverine IIC but I'm probably dreaming a hopeless dream on that one.

I'd life to see the Templar in game. It was my favorite assault in MW4: mercs though I also liked the Fafnir. Given the Annihilator though I can't see how the Fafnir would bring much to the table, kind of an IS Turkina on that front. I won't be shocked if we see a sort of "Inner Sphere Omni" release similar to the Clan IIC Origins release with a Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault omni-mech for IS players.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 10 August 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[Metus regem]

Lord0fHats, on 10 August 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

I suspect the Blood Asp will be coming soon. it's one of the most requested Clan Assaults, and the only thing that kept it out was no heavy lasers. There's the Turkina and Kingfisher too, but the Turkina is just a Dire Wolf with 10 less tones and the Kingfisher will be dead on arrival. Given though that the Clans just recently got two 90 ton assaults in a row though I'd be surprised if it was next up. My money is on a new light mech, or the Black Lanner (ugh).Maybe the Cerberus which would be nice... though I'd like it to be the MW4 Mercs design, which was kick ***, and not the Wolverine IIC but I'm probably dreaming a hopeless dream on that one.

I'd life to see the Templar in game. It was my favorite assault in MW4: mercs though I also liked the Fafnir. Given the Annihilator though I can't see how the Fafnir would bring much to the table, kind of an IS Turkina on that front. I won't be shocked if we see a sort of "Inner Sphere Omni" release similar to the Clan IIC Origins release with a Light, Medium, Heavy, and Assault omni-mech for IS players.

Well I can tell you one thing the Fafnir could do that the Annihilator couldn't...

Spoiler

Have an engine larger than 300

[R Valentine]

Fafnir
Blood Asp
Hauptman

Any IS omni is DOA. Clan omnis are already inferior to their battlemech counterparts, and that's using clan tech. Imagine gimp IS mechs being even more gimp because they're omnis. And mechs with bad hit boxes locked to XL engines. The horror can't be conveyed in words.

[Zergling]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 August 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Clan omnis are already inferior to their battlemech counterparts, and that's using clan tech.

Yes, that poor Night Gyr is totally outclassed by that overpowered Orion IIC /eyeroll

Edited by Zergling, 10 August 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[R Valentine]

Zergling, on 10 August 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

Yes, that poor Night Gyr is totally outclassed by that overpowered Orion IIC /eyeroll

The Night Gyr is a rare exception. Meanwhile, the Mad Cat Mk. II, the Kodiak, and the MAD IIC completely overshadow all other clan assaults. The HBK IIC is king of the mediums. You cherry picked one case, which happened to be a mech with god hardpoints.

[CK16]

Huntsman and Nova would like to have a word with you!

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 10 August 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

Huntsman and Nova would like to have a word with you!

Before or after I've finished giving them UAC/20 kidney shots?

Edited by Metus regem, 10 August 2017 - 08:25 AM.

[Bombast]

I think the Enforcer III and Jagermech IIIs show up in the books. Not as main character mechs, just as 'fodder.'

I'm afraid I can't check. Half of my Battletech books got destroyed in a tree fall, and the other half are in the attic, and I nearly got heat stroke last time I went up there to recover some Dresden Files novels.

[Metus regem]

Bombast, on 10 August 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

I think the Enforcer III and Jagermech IIIs show up in the books. Not as main character mechs, just as 'fodder.'

I'm afraid I can't check. Half of my Battletech books got destroyed in a tree fall, and the other half are in the attic, and I nearly got heat stroke last time I went up there to recover some Dresden Files novels.

Sorry to hear about a tree strike....

Other than that, wait till cooler weather before going up there maybe?

[Zergling]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 August 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

The Night Gyr is a rare exception. Meanwhile, the Mad Cat Mk. II, the Kodiak, and the MAD IIC completely overshadow all other clan assaults. The HBK IIC is king of the mediums. You cherry picked one case, which happened to be a mech with god hardpoints.

Warhawk is still doing fine in assaults, Nova is doing great in mediums and the Arctic Cheetah is obviously the best Clan light.

And hell, the Night Gyr is hardly the only Clan heavy omnimech.

[R Valentine]

Zergling, on 10 August 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Warhawk is still doing fine in assaults, Nova is doing great in mediums and the Arctic Cheetah is obviously the best Clan light.

And hell, the Night Gyr is hardly the only Clan heavy omnimech.

Warhawk requires the set of 8 bonuses to make it work good, which makes it an omnimech in name only. Clan lights are lacking in both number and performance, so the Arctic Cheetah is king of the short bus. The only other real exception is the Ebon Jaguar, which is the one omni that neither has, nor needs, set of 8 bonus quirks so it actually functions like an omnimech should. The Timber Wolf has been nerfed so hard it maneuvers like an Atlas, and half the omnipods are crippled with negative quirks.

The fact of the matter is, battlemechs are still better. You can change the engine, the structure, the armor, jump jets, and allocate all of the latter 3 as you please. Omnimechs have all of these things locked, which cripples a lot of chassis. Even MASC is locked. The few clan battlemechs that aren't good, aren't good because of their mounting locations. Those are things you couldn't change if you wanted to, so it has nothing to do with the fact that they are battlemechs. If they were omnis they'd be twice as bad.

[Bombast]

Metus regem, on 10 August 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Sorry to hear about a tree strike....

Quote

Other than that, wait till cooler weather before going up there maybe?

Maybe. Still runs into the original problem and why their up there - I don't have room for them. Only thing I have down at the moment are what I'm pecking at (Dresden Files at the moment, playing catch up) and my cook books.

Makes me wish e-books were a thing 25 years ago. I still prefer real paper these days, but you can't deny the convenience.

[Zergling]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 August 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

Warhawk requires the set of 8 bonuses to make it work good, which makes it an omnimech in name only. Clan lights are lacking in both number and performance, so the Arctic Cheetah is king of the short bus. The only other real exception is the Ebon Jaguar, which is the one omni that neither has, nor needs, set of 8 bonus quirks so it actually functions like an omnimech should. The Timber Wolf has been nerfed so hard it maneuvers like an Atlas, and half the omnipods are crippled with negative quirks.

The fact of the matter is, battlemechs are still better. You can change the engine, the structure, the armor, jump jets, and allocate all of the latter 3 as you please. Omnimechs have all of these things locked, which cripples a lot of chassis. Even MASC is locked. The few clan battlemechs that aren't good, aren't good because of their mounting locations. Those are things you couldn't change if you wanted to, so it has nothing to do with the fact that they are battlemechs. If they were omnis they'd be twice as bad.

You're shifting goal-posts.

And you are also forgetting the Hellbringer, Summoner and Linebacker in the heavy category.