58 replies to this topic

[Battlemaster56]

Kiran Yagami, on 12 August 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

No, neither of them are. Especially now that we have LFE. The Battlemaster was never "safe" with XL, it was just better than not having enough guns. Now you can have your cake and eat it too, just like a clanner, so why would you ever go back to side torso death?

So what you suggest for a new mech other than just calling every mech bad cause IS XL, and LFE not all that great at best it's meh you not gaining that much benefit in the speed or space department.

So what you mech you suggest???

[Lord0fHats]

I'll build a laser templar and begin every game by shouting in all chat "PRAISE THE SUN."

You all know you want to do it too

[CK16]

Battlemaster56, on 12 August 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

So what you suggest for a new mech other than just calling every mech bad cause IS XL, and LFE not all that great at best it's meh you not gaining that much benefit in the speed or space department.

So what you mech you suggest???

Not even worth asking them. To salty of an Innersphere pilot. Can't think outside a small box and see potential. Always Clans fault ect. Battlemaster with XL does just fine, only narrow minds can't make it work.

Yes, a bit direct but can't blame the mech or tech for faulty piloting.

Edited by CK16, 12 August 2017 - 12:38 PM.

[Valkyrie73]

I would definitely buy it

[Battlemaster56]

CK16, on 12 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

Not even worth asking them. To salty of an Innersphere pilot. Can't think outside a small box and see potential. Always Clans fault ect. Battlemaster with XL does just fine, only narrow minds can't make it work.

Yes, a bit direct but can't blame the mech or tech for faulty piloting.

It's interesting to see what they got at times. Good thing I'm open to many ideas and willing to test them out.

And the last part is real true, even for me when trying out mech playstyles that don't work for me at times.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kiran Yagami, on 12 August 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

No, neither of them are. Especially now that we have LFE. The Battlemaster was never "safe" with XL, it was just better than not having enough guns. Now you can have your cake and eat it too, just like a clanner, so why would you ever go back to side torso death?

BNC-3M keeps its XL in my book. It has a big CT. Only reason the other ones take LFE is for the extra slot.

[Internal Obedience XIII-omega]

Lord0fHats, on 12 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

I'll build a laser templar and begin every game by shouting in all chat "PRAISE THE SUN."

You all know you want to do it too

I'd be shouting "Praise Blake!"

[Jay Leon Hart]

Internal Obedience XIII-omega, on 12 August 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'd be shouting "Praise Blake!"

[Bombast]

Internal Obedience XIII-omega, on 12 August 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'd be shouting "Praise Blake!"

[Y E O N N E]

CK16, on 12 August 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

Answer me this? Is a Battlemaster safe to take a XL engine in? Is a Banshee safe? That right there will give a good answer to how one would predict the Templar.

No, not with the size of the Gauss-vomit alphas floating around.

Always run LFE now.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 August 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

No, not with the size of the Gauss-vomit alphas floating around.

Always run LFE now.

It depends on the geometry. Templar's is terrible. Its a barn door and its flat, so you have to twist to essentially 90 full degrees to conceal a side torso. The Sunder, like the Banshee, Black Knight, and even non humanoid mechs like the SNV, can block a weak ST with the CT, which helps A LOT for spreading damage.

[El Bandito]

CK16, on 12 August 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Then why is it so popular to see them running with XL's all over the place? Yes it is a thing and even recommend on meta mechs soooo...If it is so bad why is it acceptable by meta standards?

1. Metamechs website is heavily outdated. They haven't done anything since Supernova dropped, so they did not factor in LFE. I suggest you to drop by Mercstar wiki for more updated builds. http://www.mercstar....ory:Mech_Builds

2. XL on Battlemaster is only good now if you are running the 6xERLL sniper build. Any closer and you are much better off using LFE. BLR-2C has hefty strcuture quirks so it can somewhat getaway with using XL.

Which is why I will be running the XL fixed Templar as a sniper, mostly, unless PGI gives it durability quirks.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 August 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 12 August 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

1. Metamechs website is heavily outdated. They haven't done anything since Supernova dropped, so they did not factor in LFE. I suggest you to drop by Mercstar wiki for more updated builds. http://www.mercstar....ory:Mech_Builds

2. XL on Battlemaster is only good now if you are running the 6xERLL sniper build. Any closer and you are much better off using LFE. BLR-2C has hefty strcuture quirks so it can somewhat getaway with using XL.

Which is why I will be running the XL fixed Templar as a sniper, mostly, unless PGI gives it durability quirks.

You should be running a Sunder because the Templar would be ****.

[CK16]

El Bandito, on 12 August 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

1. Metamechs website is heavily outdated. They haven't done anything since Supernova dropped, so they did not factor in LFE. I suggest you to drop by Mercstar wiki for more updated builds. http://www.mercstar....ory:Mech_Builds

2. XL on Battlemaster is only good now if you are running the 6xERLL sniper build. Any closer and you are much better off using LFE. BLR-2C has hefty strcuture quirks so it can somewhat getaway with using XL.

Which is why I will be running the XL fixed Templar as a sniper, mostly, unless PGI gives it durability quirks.

Which by its nature would be acceptable. A lot of builds seemed to focus on the decent agility and mid to long range builds. I could see a Gauss with ER-LL/LPL combos being popular with the mech. Laser Vomit sure. Missiles eh it could be an ok LRM boat...but well yea...LRM's -.- Heck looking at its crit space I do not think it could do AC/UAC20's even to consider brawling...

[Gas Guzzler]

CK16, on 12 August 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Which by its nature would be acceptable. A lot of builds seemed to focus on the decent agility and mid to long range builds. I could see a Gauss with ER-LL/LPL combos being popular with the mech. Laser Vomit sure. Missiles eh it could be an ok LRM boat...but well yea...LRM's -.- Heck looking at its crit space I do not think it could do AC/UAC20's even to consider brawling...

Can you explain? It can't mount a Gauss in the shoulder, and the arms are knuckledraggers, so I don't see any good Gauss laser combos here. Besides, Gauss plus 3 LPL is only 45 damage. That's nothing.

This mech would be awful.

Sunder and Hauptmann are definitely better picks.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 August 2017 - 05:23 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Can you explain? It can't mount a Gauss in the shoulder, and the arms are knuckledraggers, so I don't see any good Gauss laser combos here. Besides, Gauss plus 3 LPL is only 45 damage. That's nothing.

This mech would be awful.

Sunder and Hauptmann are definitely better picks.

This debate between IS omnimechs is between the people that really want them in game, since I could care less about IS omni's in general. However, the more I look at the TRO Sunder I see alot of problems with it.



If I am looking at this properly, is that cockpit located at it's center torso? I know unless this thing doesn't get mega quirks in game, it's going to be a disaster with it's hit boxes. Also one other thing I wanted to point out is that SRM rack above the cockpit. Is that CASE protected? No offense Gas, but unless Alex alters it's design, PGI showers it with quirks, and fixes IS XL engine durability I see this thing being DOA.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

It depends on the geometry. Templar's is terrible. Its a barn door and its flat, so you have to twist to essentially 90 full degrees to conceal a side torso. The Sunder, like the Banshee, Black Knight, and even non humanoid mechs like the SNV, can block a weak ST with the CT, which helps A LOT for spreading damage.

And then you take a parting shot to one side of those broader-than-you-give-them-credit-for torsos and you're stuck on your back foot for the remainder of the match. I've done it to opposing BNC and BLRs, I know you have, and we both know it's gg ez.

If you can keep map control and keep the enemy so pressured that they can't even really trade, XL on something like a BLR or BNC is workable. But you need a lot of confidence, skill, and a non-trivial amount of luck to do that consistently pull that off without your opposition being chumps.

The Sunder has better boxes than the Templar, but it would still have problems simply because it will not be fast enough at twisting to really spread the damage received from a Gauss-Vomit blast. It would still need some hefty armor quirks.

Arnold The Governator, on 12 August 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

This debate between IS omnimechs is between the people that really want them in game, since I could care less about IS omni's in general. However, the more I look at the TRO Sunder I see alot of problems with it.

TBQH, I only really want the Raptor, and that one is okay since Lights run XL anyway and that one has enough offensive capacity to offset its lower-than-average run speed.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 August 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

TBQH, I only really want the Raptor, and that one is okay since Lights run XL anyway and that one has enough offensive capacity to offset its lower-than-average run speed.

At least you chose an IS Omnimech that isn't locked by single heat sinks, lol. Doesn't look too bad from the load outs as a light either.

[Gas Guzzler]

Arnold The Governator, on 12 August 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

This debate between IS omnimechs is between the people that really want them in game, since I could care less about IS omni's in general. However, the more I look at the TRO Sunder I see alot of problems with it.



If I am looking at this properly, is that cockpit located at it's center torso? I know unless this thing doesn't get mega quirks in game, it's going to be a disaster with it's hit boxes. Also one other thing I wanted to point out is that SRM rack above the cockpit. Is that CASE protected? No offense Gas, but unless Alex alters it's design, PGI showers it with quirks, and fixes IS XL engine durability I see this thing being DOA.

What does CASE have to do with anything? Lol... way to point out something that means nothing. The SRM rack will be removed anyway. With no rationale behind the "hitbox disaster", I fail to see how you saying that makes it so. Frankly, I don't believe you.

The Sunder is hands down better than the Templar due to better geometry and higher hardpoints across the board.

Yeonne Greene, on 12 August 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

And then you take a parting shot to one side of those broader-than-you-give-them-credit-for torsos and you're stuck on your back foot for the remainder of the match. I've done it to opposing BNC and BLRs, I know you have, and we both know it's gg ez.

If you can keep map control and keep the enemy so pressured that they can't even really trade, XL on something like a BLR or BNC is workable. But you need a lot of confidence, skill, and a non-trivial amount of luck to do that consistently pull that off without your opposition being chumps.

The Sunder has better boxes than the Templar, but it would still have problems simply because it will not be fast enough at twisting to really spread the damage received from a Gauss-Vomit blast. It would still need some hefty armor quirks.

Weren't you the one who advocated using an XL on a Marauder?

I very rarely get side torso'd in Banshees, and usually when I do, I'd be dead in short order anyway. Same with Black Knights and Grasshoppers. Obviously it depends on how they do the hitboxes, but looking at geometry favors the Sunder in this match up. It also helps that your weapons are higher and not all the way down by your hips like on the Templar.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

What does CASE have to do with anything? Lol... way to point out something that means nothing. The SRM rack will be removed anyway. With no rationale behind the "hitbox disaster", I fail to see how you saying that makes it so. Frankly, I don't believe you.

The Sunder is hands down better than the Templar due to better geometry and higher hardpoints across the board.

CASE would protect it from internal ammo explosions which I could see being a very big issue since the missile rack is mounted right above it's cockpit. Since no variants of the Sunder have CASE in such a vulnerable area, I guess that would be a good selling point for a hero variant of this mech. With 16 and a half tons of armor plus a CASE variant hero it might be decent.

However, if we are talking about a mech that has slightly less armor than an Atlas with better hard points, then I guarantee PGI will do something in the nerf department to cripple it if we got it in game. I have a feeling that it's going to be a giant walking CT since PGI is paranoid of over performing IS mechs for some reason. I'm not trying to defend the Templar, but I am pointing out some very fatal flaws that I see with the Sunder's design and how the mech might translate over to MW:O.