33 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

as this topic have come up many times,
but in this Topic i wanted to talk about Defense Quirks,
rather than Just a Make C-XL = SI-XL,

lets assume based on your Engine you get a slight Structure Buff,
this would be a Item Added Quirk much like what we see with Targeting Computers,


=STD Engine(IS & Clan)=
(+12CT Structure Quirk)

=IS-XL Engine=
(+6LT Structure Quirk)
(+6RT Structure Quirk)

CASE=
(+6ST Structure Quirk(Based on which ST its Placed in)


Now the purpose of these Quirks would be to Aid mechs taking this Equipment,
to which to give more insentive to use these Equipment over other options,
and to help bridge the Engine Gap(IS-XL vs C-XL)

a Mech with STD Engine + 2CASE,
(+12CT Structure Quirk)
(+6LT Structure Quirk(LeftCASE)
(+6RT Structure Quirk(RightCASE)

a Mech with IS-XL Engine + 2CASE,
(+12LT Structure Quirk(IS-XL + LeftCASE)
(+12RT Structure Quirk(IS-XL + RightCASE)

a Mech with LFE Engine + 2CASE,
(+6LT Structure Quirk(LeftCASE)
(+6RT Structure Quirk(RightCASE)


now these above Numbers wouldnt be final,
and would be increased assuming that they didnt do enough,
but this would impart a benefit to IS-XL & STD Engines without changing Lore,

=(Poll)=

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 15 August 2017 - 08:31 AM.

[Athom83]

Rather, how about the idea that ALL equipment/weapons/etc give their HP value (or some at least) to the structure?

[Andi Nagasia]

Athom83, on 14 August 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Rather, how about the idea that ALL equipment/weapons/etc give their HP value (or some at least) to the structure?

have a Topic in Feature Suggestion on just this, but some problems were brought up with it,
also that wouldnt really help the 3 pieces of equipment ive listed here(STD Engines, IS-XLs, & CASE)

[Athom83]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 August 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

have a Topic in Feature Suggestion on just this, but some problems were brought up with it,
also that wouldnt really help the 3 pieces of equipment ive listed here(STD Engines, IS-XLs, & CASE)

Engines re included in equipment. Standards give all of its health to the CT. XLs (and LFEs) have the same health, but its also spread out between 3 components (CT, RT, LT). Case is a very dense component, so it could give all of its health (what is it currenlty, 10?) to the component its in (except clan mechs that have case built in).

[SirNotlag]

I feel if Case negated ammo explosion damage rather then stopping it from spreading it might be a decent enough buff to it. Adding equipment health to structure would be an interesting idea in my mind all mechs become tougher but how hard would that be to balance? you have to consider the defensive aspect of all the weapons as well, would an AC20 add a noticable difference in hp compared to an AC 10 and would a mech that has small lasers in every component have greater survivability compared to a mech with just one big gun in its arm?

[Nema Nabojiv]

A serious question - did PGI ever made a decision based any of those polls in Feature Suggestion forum?

Except new mechs of course.

[Athom83]

Nema Nabojiv, on 14 August 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

A serious question - did PGI ever made a decision based any of those polls in Feature Suggestion forum?

Except new mechs of course.

They have quite a few times. Not all of them, nor a whole lot. But there were a few features that came from said forum.

[Andi Nagasia]

Nema Nabojiv, on 14 August 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

A serious question - did PGI ever made a decision based any of those polls in Feature Suggestion forum?

Except new mechs of course.

they have a couple times,

some are still out, to be added but dont have a ETA(such as AS7 Glowing Eyes)
others have been said to be something that they would like to do if they can find the time(Solaris)
some are said to not be able to be done with the current System limitations(Ammo Switching)
and Finally some have just been put back on the table recently(Knockdowns)

[BTGbullseye]

Standards don't need any durability buffs, they're already the most durable things in the game.

XL engines I fully support having a bonus, but I'd say make it +6 for lights, +9 for mediums, +12 for heavies, and +18 for assaults. Another possibility would be to make the loss of a side equivalent to losing a leg instead of instant death. (you've already lost half your mech, and now a slowdown makes you weaker, but you can still do a bit of damage on your way out instead of keeling over)

CASE is already good enough as-is for what it is, it shouldn't add pointless structure. (structure is meaningless if the ammo explodes) I would support a tonnage decrease to 0.25t, or the ability to add it to a mech without using any crit slots. (like the artemis switch, just with it only adding 1t to the mech weight, no slots taken, and the side torsos both being protected) I don't support both of those at the same time though.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 14 August 2017 - 01:56 PM.

[Khobai]

ISXL should survive side torso destruction with full penalties

LFE should have no penalties for ST loss and give a +3/+4/+5/+6 structure bonus to each side torso

STD should give a +12/+16/+20/+24 CT structure bonus (maybe more)

for light/medium/heavy/assault respectively


then ISXL is the same as CXL which is how it needs to be for actual game balance. IS vs Clans will never be balanced without this change. Thats a fact.

Edited by Khobai, 15 August 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

BTGbullseye, on 14 August 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Standards don't need any durability buffs, they're already the most durable things in the game.

but this is at Hefty Cost of Weight, and most of the time its better to take a LFE(IS) or XL(Clan),
as being faster and having more weapons is better akin to living longer and doing more for your team,
also as you more likely to lose your CT then both your side Torsos, to that extra duribility doesnt matter as much,

BTGbullseye, on 14 August 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

XL engines I fully support having a bonus, but I'd say make it +6 for lights, +9 for mediums, +12 for heavies, and +18 for assaults. Another possibility would be to make the loss of a side equivalent to losing a leg instead of instant death. (you've already lost half your mech, and now a slowdown makes you weaker, but you can still do a bit of damage on your way out instead of keeling over)

on acount of just making ST loss = leg loss then it would be just like C-XL, which PGI is reluctant to do,
which is why i suggested bonus Structure Quirks with the STD and IS-XL engines, as its a diffrent type of buff,

BTGbullseye, on 14 August 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

CASE is already good enough as-is for what it is, it shouldn't add pointless structure. (structure is meaningless if the ammo explodes) I would support a tonnage decrease to 0.25t, or the ability to add it to a mech without using any crit slots. (like the artemis switch, just with it only adding 1t to the mech weight, no slots taken, and the side torsos both being protected) I don't support both of those at the same time though.

PGI is reluctant to ever change the Tonnage or the Space a peice of Equipment takes up,
that said currently CASE is mostly useless, ive never seen a need to use it on any of my IS builds,
that extra Ton could be better used as a DHS, TC1, or even a Ton of Ammo,

which is why i suggested this Buff to help its viability,
and in so doing help Mechs that take it, and perhaps get more mechs to take it,

[Khobai]

Quote

rather than Just a Make C-XL = SI-XL,

CXL = ISXL is the only way to properly fix IS vs Clan balance

[Andi Nagasia]

Khobai, on 14 August 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

CXL = ISXL is the only way to properly fix IS vs Clan balance

though personally i wouldnt be against this, im not sure about it,
if it happened i would support removing the Penalties for LFE(still dont know why they have them)

[Khobai]

im sure about it

CXL is one of the major unbalancing factors between clan mechs and IS mechs

clan mechs get firepower, survivability, and speed because of CXL

where IS mechs have to choose two of the above

[King Kahuna]

I like your idea. It would at least help the situation. Right now so many standard and XL engines are looking for a home. Wont you do your part to reduce the homeless engine population.

[El Bandito]

Giving CASE structure bonus will only result in people misusing it for durability on even ammoless mechs. Instead let IS CASE reduce either explosion damage, or reduce chance of getting critted. Those are far better options.

[BTGbullseye]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 August 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

on acount of just making ST loss = leg loss then it would be just like C-XL

I get ST loss on my MCII all the time, and I don't get dropped to leg-loss speeds... (ST loss drops to ~75% speed, and leg loss drops to ~50%) I've had it do the same with the Hunchback IIC, Cougar, Adder, Hellbringer, and Myst Lynx. Leg loss always drops speed a LOT more than ST loss on Clan mechs. (note: I do not skill into the leg loss mobility skills, as I find them to be mostly worthless)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 15 August 2017 - 12:26 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

I kind of like the case boosting idea in particular, but are you aware that currently you can equip both of the 2 case slots into a singular ST for IS mechs? It isn't a huge deal and could be a bug in itself, but it could be "abused" through the idea in ways, or maybe it shouldn't matter, considering you kind of lose a potential "crit padding" slot, maybe, and it does max out at that second one.

It could be interesting to see other equipment work like that too, targeting computers and baps etc not actually having health values, but values that add to the structural health of the component they are attached to.

[HGAK47]

I dont think I have ever fit C.A.S.E ever. Ive removed it from mechs many times but never have I fitted it. Any reason more to take C.A.S.E would be nice.

Oh also does this mean the MASC on my Spirit Bear will stop being blown up quite so fast too? ;-) (Its always the side with the masc that dies first, I stick my ballistic side out and still somehow the MASC side dies.. but I digress)

[Kalo Shin]

I legitimately hope the IS never gets buffs to their XL's. Anyone saying that the clans overpower the IS don't actually play the game or at the very least only pilot IS mechs and don't actually understand the downsides of who they are fighting.

Edited by Kalo Shin, 15 August 2017 - 02:29 AM.