97 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

you should not be punished for getting headshots. period.

You don't seem like the kind of person who would get headshots often enough for this to be a problem.

Also, with or without splash, headshots are still going to kill the mech faster than body shots unless you hit the rear of a light mech or something.

[Jackal Noble]

InfinityBall, on 17 August 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

Wow. that's some powerful stupid. No, splash damage should no work that way. the damage is not magically running after parts of the mech. It's splashing which means it spreads in all directions. If one of those directions is one where there is no part of the mech, it should do no damage. Pretty simple and should be blindingly obvious

question - is the iteration of splash damage merely a facet of this game?
http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

*crickets

Nope. Looks like 15 damage on hit.


Pretty simple and should be blindingly obvious.

Also, an LRM analogy to PPC. Really? lmao

Edited by JackalBeast, 17 August 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

CERPPCs arnt very good either unless you use the Warhawk-C. Again the Warhawk-C is the problem.

Sure, they are never used on any other mechs...except HBK-IIC-As, poptart Summoners, or SVN-Cs........oh wait, maybe it isn't just the Warhawk. The Warhawk C just happens to have the quirks that allow it to be competitive for damage output at more than just extreme range but cERPPCs have been a bigger staple of comp than even Gauss for a while now.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 August 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

CERPPCs arnt very good either unless you use the Warhawk-C. Again the Warhawk-C is the problem.

I didn't say anything about a "problem". Saying IS PPCs are better is false though.

[Khobai]

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You don't seem like the kind of person who would get headshots often enough for this to be a problem.

huh? i only get headshots. because thats how I roll. why should I get punished for being so good?

but my point about shooting lights in their legs also holds true. why should people be punished because they shoot lights in their legs?

damage vanishing into thin air is a bad mechanic. period.

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Also, with or without splash, headshots are still going to kill the mech faster than body shots unless you hit the rear of a light mech or something.

but my damage score will be lower because of vanishing damage

damage should not vanish into thin air. its a stupid mechanic.

If you pay X heat for Y damage, you should always get Y damage

Its a matter of paying the cost and not receiving the goods.

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Sure, they are never used on any other mechs...except HBK-IIC-As, poptart Summoners, or SVN-Cs........oh wait, maybe it isn't just the Warhawk.

Sure they get used on other mechs but theyre not overpowered on those other mechs. Because theyre balanced by the absurd heat they generate. The warhawk can fire CERPPCs almost nonstop though because of its cerppc heat reduction quirk. It largely removes heat as the limiting factor.

Edited by Khobai, 17 August 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Sure they get used on other mechs but theyre not overpowered on those other mechs. Because theyre balanced by the absurd heat they generate. The warhawk can fire CERPPCs almost nonstop though because of its cerppc heat reduction quirk.

The heat isn't so bad without quirks when you have ~30 DHS.

IS mechs are lucky to have what, 18 or 19 DHS with 4 PPCs? Lol.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Sure they get used on other mechs but theyre not overpowered on those other mechs. Because theyre balanced by the absurd heat they generate. The warhawk can fire CERPPCs almost nonstop though because of its cerppc heat reduction quirk. It largely removes heat as the limiting factor.

Even without the heat reduction quirk, cERPPCs are better. If it weren't for the Warhawk it would be a SVN-C before it was ever a BLR-2C with iERPPCs. Why? Because the heat generated by iERPPCs is still too much despite how accurate you can be with them. In fact, most iPPCs are still too hot for what they do (including the HPPC and SNPPC).

I mean what iERPPC poptarts do you see running around competing with the Summoner and HBK-IIC-A cuz I don't see any of them doing that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 August 2017 - 12:34 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

So in effect, what is being asked for is an advance on the compromise that is in the game currently. I can honestly agree with the logic in concept, on the basis that splash damage gets to magically behaves in the manner that does.


In game the C-ERPPC with the splash mechanic is in place, is pretty balanced even in the current clime. But the splash damage really should be revised so that it does incorporate the full 15 damage on hit.

The idea that a formed projectile from a particle cannon dissipates into thin air based on where it hits even tho it is a successful it, meanwhile every other projectile based weapon in game gets to count for it's full damage.....except the C-ERPPC

Kind of a fallacy....
It's not like it could be due to coding limitations on splash damage behavior could it?

[Khobai]

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IS mechs are lucky to have what, 18 or 19 DHS with 4 PPCs? Lol.

but that has nothing to do with CERPPCs

that has to do with heatsink imbalance

its a seperate issue entirely and a major one. because all clan weapons benefit from clan heatsinks being better, not just CERPPCs.

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Even without the heat reduction quirk, cERPPCs are better.

but if heatsinks were balanced they wouldnt be better

so its not really CERPPCs.... so much as the fact CDHS are way better. and on the warhawk-C that problem is further compounded by its heat reduction quirk.

CDHS are another one of the major imbalances between IS and clan tech. just like CXL is.

CERPPC arnt the problem, theyre not that good on their own, Clans having better dissipation is the problem.


IS DHS take up 3 crit slots so they should be better than CDHS that only take up 2 crit slots.

I personally would give CDHS slightly better dissipation but give ISDHS much better capacity.

for example:
CDHS = 1.6 dissipation, 1.5 capacity
ISDHS = 1.5 dissipation, 1.8 capacity

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I mean what iERPPC poptarts do you see running around competing with the Summoner and HBK-IIC-A cuz I don't see any of them doing that.

again its a heatsink imbalance not a ppc imbalance

its harder for IS mechs to run ppcs builds because they cant shed off heat as wel

Edited by Khobai, 17 August 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 August 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sure, they are never used on any other mechs...except HBK-IIC-As, poptart Summoners, or SVN-Cs........oh wait, maybe it isn't just the Warhawk. The Warhawk C just happens to have the quirks that allow it to be competitive for damage output at more than just extreme range but cERPPCs have been a bigger staple of comp than even Gauss for a while now.

True... but the quadhawk just isn't the same ever since the change to cooldown and heat management. Still see them a bit, but just doesn't feel the same.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 17 August 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

True... but the quadhawk just isn't the same ever since the change to cooldown and heat management. Still see them a bit, but just doesn't feel the same.

What? They are still easily one of the best assaults in the game right now.....

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

but if heatsinks were balanced they wouldnt be better

If that were the case neither of the ERPPCs would be great but the cERPPC would still probably win out because the extra damage is still more important than being able to hit ERLL mechs a bit more reliably. iERPPCs should be around 12.5 heat at most and even then I feel like that might be a smidge too high considering you can't even combine them with Gauss anymore.

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

so its not really Clan energy weapons.... so much as the fact CDHS are way better

FTFY

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 August 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[Khobai]

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If that were the case neither of the ERPPCs would be great but the cERPPC would still probably win out because the extra damage

you mean the extra damage that vanishes half the time? lol

splash damage is absolute garbage. IS players know it thats why they insisted heavy PPCs not do splash damage.

nobody wants their ppcs doing splash damage. splash damage is a !@#$ing joke.


but we do need better balanced heatsinks. clan heatsinks should dissipate better (1.6/1.5) and IS heatsinks should have much higher capacity (1.5/1.8)

because clan weapons run hotter so they need the higher dissipation. and IS weapons do less damage so they need the higher capacity to fire more weapons at once.

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iERPPCs should be around 12.5 heat at most

no. they should not be 12.5 heat. then thered definitely be no reason to use other PPCs like snubnose ppcs or regular ppcs. because ERPPCs would run so cool they would be outright better for the +50% range and +60% velocity. 13.5 heat is exactly where they need to be. theyre only slightly worse than CERPPCs.

again the major problem behind the IS and C PPC performance disparity is the heatsink imbalance.

you need to fix the real problem not bandaid it by making weapons run cooler than they should because IS heatsinks arnt as good as they should be. fix IS heatsinks instead.

ISDHS need to be better overall than CDHS because 3 crit slots vs 2 critslots

Edited by Khobai, 17 August 2017 - 01:03 PM.

[Rhent]

The splash damage is highly useful when fighting players with basic skills. Why? You have opened up the torsos on your opponent and he is using his arms for shielding. You first you CERPPC's into the arm and get 10 damage to his torso causing it to shatter.

[Khobai]

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The splash damage is highly useful when fighting players with basic skills. Why? You have opened up the torsos on your opponent and he is using his arms for shielding. You first you CERPPC's into the arm and get 10 damage to his torso causing it to shatter.

you can shoot most mechs in the ST or CT even when theyre torso twisted away from you just by knowing where to shoot. so thats not really an advantage unique to CERPPCs.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I agree, paying the heat cost should guarantee the maximum damage.

No more LBX spread!
No more multi-shot UACs!
No more SRM spread!
No more LRM spread!
No more MRM spread!
No more laser burn!
No more velocity!
No more aiming!
No more shots that can miss!

...

Am I doing it right?

[Jackal Noble]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

The heat isn't so bad without quirks when you have ~30 DHS.

IS mechs are lucky to have what, 18 or 19 DHS with 4 PPCs? Lol.

Apples to Apples but 33 was the most I could squeeze in her.

DHS-STRIKE

Wow, even with 33 DHS, and only 4 ER mediums and 2 PPCs on an assault stuffed with DHS, that is still strangely warm at 46% heat efficiency.

Edited by JackalBeast, 17 August 2017 - 12:56 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

What? They are still easily one of the best assaults in the game right now.....

Don't get me wrong.. I love my Warhawks something serious, and my C doesn't feel the same after the change to ppcs. Granted I'm a fan of the velo increase, but that IS ER-PPC is sweet now out of the box on even un-quirked mechs.

[Khobai]

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I agree, paying the heat cost should guarantee the maximum damage.

No more LBX spread!
No more multi-shot UACs!
No more SRM spread!
No more LRM spread!
No more MRM spread!
No more laser burn!
No more velocity!
No more aiming!
No more shots that can miss!

Yeah but CERPPCs arnt supposed to be a spread weapon. It doesnt roll on the missile hits table like missile weapons or LBX. CERPPCs are supposed to do full damage when they hit. And even if the damage splashes it should still do full damage.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

Yeah but CERPPCs arnt supposed to be a spread weapon. It doesnt roll on the missile hits table like missile weapons or LBX. CERPPCs are supposed to do full damage when they hit. And even if the damage splashes it should still do full damage.

Do laser weapons roll on the missile hit table? Do UACs?

[Khobai]

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Do laser weapons roll on the missile hit table? Do UACs?

UACs do yes.