16 replies to this topic

[GreyMatter51]

I have been gaming on my Sager 8390-S laptop for a few years now and feel that it is time to upgrade my old PC to take advantage of the better cooling (been having issues with the laptop video cards overheating and shutting down).

Here is the current setup on the PC:
AMD 965BE
8GB RAM
ATI 6970
ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3
Cooler Master Silent Pro M700 Power Supply (worried about using this in the build since this build is almost 8 years old at this point and the power supply has many hours of use)

The other components I will use in the new build but these are the parts that I feel I need to replace.

With the case that I have (AMD version of the CoolerMaster HAF 932), I would like to stay with AMD for the processor and video card, so I have been looking at the Ryzen 7 1700 processor to base the build off of. My problems currently are sifting through the information on the motherboards since (from what I gather) there were some problems initially when the AM4 boards first came out. The other part that I am having difficulties sorting through are the video cards.

My budget is max $1200 but would like to keep it around $1000 if possible. I do have a dual monitor setup that I use but only game on 1 monitor. Eventually I may get a triple monitor setup but I am currently running at 1920x1080. I primarily game so I would not mind being able to run games such as MWO on max setting and do realize as newer games come out that eventually I will need to start stepping settings down to compensate.

I would like this build to be good/decent for about 4-5 years if possible (or be able to make minor upgrades to prolong the system). One last note, I have never really overclocked any of my PC's in the past so not sure if that is something that I need to look in to.

Please let me know if I have missed any information and I will try to fill it in.

Thanks

[Bill Lumbar]

I am running a Ryzen 1700 right now. Stable at 4ghz, and loving it. I have a custom water loop though, and a EK blocked MSI 1070 Sea hawk. I am running the AMD G.Skill 3200 mhz ram. If you have a decent 750+ Power supply, I would say go for a Ryzen 1700 with a strong GPU and don't look back. You can find my build in other threads, I made my own wall mount case, and used hard lines this time around vs. Soft.

Or.... You could save up a little more cash and get the Threadripper and a X399 board.... Asrock professional is very nice, I have the X370 one. I am tempted to drop the cash on a new Threadripper and see what this 1070 can do.

[NARC BAIT]

my PC is noticeably converting less energy into heat on a 1600X than I had with my old 8350 ... there are some weird goings on about still ... some boards/manufacturers are much slower to provide support than others .... I'd recommend the AMD's to people willing to go a bit further to setup and blah ... make sure you get ram that does at least 3200mhz ... and if you can get AMD profiles that can save you some messing about ...

ive got the ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO IV, its not a board I would recommend to people who don't want to learn a lot ... but you hear much less complaints from the people who brought the higher end boards ....

[Bill Lumbar]

Asrock has been putting out updates left and right for my x370 professional motherboard. I am glad I went with it, was gonna get the Tachi, but it was always sold out when I built my rig. I got tired of waiting.... money well spent.

[NARC BAIT]

one of the main reasons I started looking at the asus board was that I could fit an AM3 CPU block to it, and I was planning to use my AM3 closed water loop .... of course, my computer didn't like me thinking about replacing it, and that cooler promptly died, after nearly 5 years of solid usage ... and I looked at other boards, and thought about spending $ on different things, but just kept coming back to the board that had most of the benchmarking records on it ...

I don't think the threadripper is going to help MWO at all ... but time will tell ... AMD are creating a new 'game mode' for it, where it will essentially hide one of the CPU dies and turn it into just being a ryzen, that at best only has super fast access to half the RAM .... and then theres the RAM stuff ... intel had issues when they first brought online 8 channel memory stuff, and AMD are still working on sorting out their ram issues for ryzen, let alone dualryzen ...

even if I had the spare money to, I would skip the first generation of X399 boards ... its very reminiscent of when AMD hedged their bets that games would properly go multicore and they would end up in front ... but it didn't happen ...

[xWiredx]

If you want to stick with AMD, that Ryzen 7 1700X is probably the best way to go. I'd Google any potential boards you like very heavily to make sure there are no showstopping quirks, or if there are if they have already been addressed with new BIOS updates. Then, after you've carefully selected your board, I'd only get RAM that is specifically listed as supported with that board. The 'golden' number to hit with DDR4 is 3000, so if you can get it to 3200 you'll be really happy.

There will be an 8-core Threadripper apparently, too, that may be more tantalizing, but it probably would blow out the budget for a nicer GPU (important if you play other games). Not sure how much info is out about it yet, and not sure if there will be much to sway a decision in its favor over the 1700X.

Realistically, I don't think anything beyond a GTX 1060 is required for MWO, but you will want a card that has at least 4GB of VRAM (so look at 6GB-8GB models of GPUs).

[Methanoid]

Most gaming rigs these days are good enough even on the low end, just remember that on the MWO side of things, its using an archaic 2009 cryengine that mostly uses CPU and barely touches your GFX card in comparison, so if your going to hit a bottleneck anywhere on MWO, ittl be the CPU side of things.

[Bill Lumbar]

xWiredx, on 24 August 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

If you want to stick with AMD, that Ryzen 7 1700X is probably the best way to go. I'd Google any potential boards you like very heavily to make sure there are no showstopping quirks, or if there are if they have already been addressed with new BIOS updates. Then, after you've carefully selected your board, I'd only get RAM that is specifically listed as supported with that board. The 'golden' number to hit with DDR4 is 3000, so if you can get it to 3200 you'll be really happy.

There will be an 8-core Threadripper apparently, too, that may be more tantalizing, but it probably would blow out the budget for a nicer GPU (important if you play other games). Not sure how much info is out about it yet, and not sure if there will be much to sway a decision in its favor over the 1700X.

Realistically, I don't think anything beyond a GTX 1060 is required for MWO, but you will want a card that has at least 4GB of VRAM (so look at 6GB-8GB models of GPUs).

Honestly, I would skip the 1700X and just go with 1700, I am very happy with mine

But everything else is spot on Wired. I am sorry about not putting up some numbers or testing with my rig yet..... I have been extremely busy! I am rebuilding my 2005 Altima 3.5 Se-R engine right now.... blown head gasket man. I haven't even played this game in like a month.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 24 August 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[NARC BAIT]

xWiredx, on 24 August 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Then, after you've carefully selected your board, I'd only get RAM that is specifically listed as supported with that board. The 'golden' number to hit with DDR4 is 3000, so if you can get it to 3200 you'll be really happy.

yeah, that's what everyone says, but no one knows where this number actually comes from ... I've been searching for a 'speed limit' for infinity fabric, and I couldnt find it anywhere in any tech docs ... and I don't think the golden number is the 'whole truth', I think its been based more around convenience/laziness and achievability for the masses ... on my earlier BIOS I could stabilize 3733 MHz, but with a 50% hit to memory read throughput, whereas on the 'current' one, I can only stabilize 3600mhz, but in saying that, with the right tweaking, I'm running my own batch of timings at the moment, in reality its between my XMP profile for 2933mhz and the motherboards auto profile for 2400mhz .... these tuned values are fast, higher read/write/copy *and* lower latency, but its not quite at the absolute floor *yet* .... I think infinity fabric could run at 2000mhz, I can find no hard reason why it couldn't, and I think if I had brought the 4266mhz kit, I might have gotten 4000mhz stable ... I'm yet to try shifting the 'memory hole', on the updated BIOS at stupid speeds ... anyway ...

xWiredx, on 24 August 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Realistically, I don't think anything beyond a GTX 1060 is required for MWO, but you will want a card that has at least 4GB of VRAM (so look at 6GB-8GB models of GPUs).

if your looking at buying parts for a long term 4K upgrade path, the 1060 falls short, not so massively short that its beyond reach, but my 1060 bottlenecks my OC 1600X, in synthetic benchmarks ... MWO is code gimped ... I've seen my GPU memory usage get over 5 gb lately in some instances ... with BS detail and/or high detail effects going on ...

[Lizardman from Hollywood]

For a ryzen build at 1000 dollars and no hassle i would run a 1600X on a b350. Buy an evga bronze psu for 50 bucks. 130 for ddr4 3000mz ram (dont be fooled tests with new drivers prove that the diff between 2666 ram and 3200 ram on ryzen chips is like 2%) with deal hunting that leaves you about 500 dollars out of your thousand for a gtx 1080. Skipping a pizza or 2 will push you over that hump tho. Reuse your old storage devices. Another 30 bucks will get you a hyper 212 and will give you plenty of cooling to runnyour chip unoverclocked and still let it turbo up to 4.1 on the main core.

The problem with the 1700 is the slow stock speeds, lemme tell you a stock 1700 plays mwo like crap.

Edited by Sephrus Shanadar, 24 August 2017 - 07:36 PM.

[xWiredx]

NARC BAIT, on 24 August 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

yeah, that's what everyone says, but no one knows where this number actually comes from ... I've been searching for a 'speed limit' for infinity fabric, and I couldnt find it anywhere in any tech docs ... and I don't think the golden number is the 'whole truth', I think its been based more around convenience/laziness and achievability for the masses ... on my earlier BIOS I could stabilize 3733 MHz, but with a 50% hit to memory read throughput, whereas on the 'current' one, I can only stabilize 3600mhz, but in saying that, with the right tweaking, I'm running my own batch of timings at the moment, in reality its between my XMP profile for 2933mhz and the motherboards auto profile for 2400mhz .... these tuned values are fast, higher read/write/copy *and* lower latency, but its not quite at the absolute floor *yet* .... I think infinity fabric could run at 2000mhz, I can find no hard reason why it couldn't, and I think if I had brought the 4266mhz kit, I might have gotten 4000mhz stable ... I'm yet to try shifting the 'memory hole', on the updated BIOS at stupid speeds ... anyway ...

if your looking at buying parts for a long term 4K upgrade path, the 1060 falls short, not so massively short that its beyond reach, but my 1060 bottlenecks my OC 1600X, in synthetic benchmarks ... MWO is code gimped ... I've seen my GPU memory usage get over 5 gb lately in some instances ... with BS detail and/or high detail effects going on ...

The 'golden rule' for DDR4 was established well before Ryzen. Us X99 folks have had it for years now. Anything below DDR4-3000 is essentially where you move beyond somewhere between "slower" and "at parity" with DDR3 because of the higher latencies involved. So to really move past a point where you wouldn't be losing tenths of a frame per second compared to "older" builds (remembering that even Skylake allowed for the highest-end DDR3) you need to get above that line, thus DDR4-3200+ is where people want to be.

For 4K I completely agree that a slightly beefier GPU would be highly preferred. Being that we have no UI scaling in the year 2017 for MWO (seriously, its been 'a thing' for decades... wtf), I refuse to look at MWO beyond 2K and you have to realize that the vast majority of MWO players are using 1080p or lower (and many of them are using potatoes to play). You 4K players are a different breed of human that must really like squinting at the display to read things. I have excellent vision but 4K on a 27" screen and no UI scaling is still an abomination.

[Bill Lumbar]

@Wired,


Yep..... I made a choice to go 1440P with my BenQ 32" a year and a half ago. It seems perfect to me, just not buying into 4K for 90% of the games I play. It is just too much, and even though I could now push it with my new build, I just don't want to.

My old wall mount with wood frame and granite, I74790K build. Kinda too heavy to lift on and off the wall when I needed to upgrade or clean.



Here are some pics of my new build, had to drop Photo bucket.... lol. I built this one out of aluminum and carbon fiber wrapped it, much lighter.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 25 August 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[xWiredx]

Bill Lumbar, on 25 August 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

@Wired,

Yep..... I made a choice to go 1440P with my BenQ 32" a year and a half ago. It seems perfect to me, just not buying into 4K for 90% of the games I play. It is just too much, and even though I could now push it with my new build, I just don't want to.

My old wall mount with wood frame and granite, I74790K build. Kinda too heavy to lift on and off the wall when I needed to upgrade or clean.

Here are some pics of my new build, had to drop Photo bucket.... lol. I built this one out of aluminum and carbon fiber wrapped it, much lighter.

Basically, build what Bill built. You'll be happy. Damn that looks sexy.

[GreyMatter51]

Wow that looks very nice. I have no where near the skills, equipment, or money to make something like that. Plus the cats would probably be all over it

[NARC BAIT]

xWiredx, on 25 August 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

thus DDR4-3200+ is where people want to be.

awesome, thanks for helping me to get that background, that I missed, way back when DDR4 became a thing, and I was still sitting by my FX with a fire extinguisher ... I haven't gotten my 4000mhz kit to behave 'good' over 3733mhz ... and seen very good results at 3600 MHz, but at the moment, I'm running at 3200 MHz with a profile from around 2666 MHz .... yielding the throughput from 3600mhz and saving 1/8 on overall latency ...

xWiredx, on 25 August 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

For 4K I completely agree that a slightly beefier GPU would be highly preferred. Being that we have no UI scaling in the year 2017 for MWO (seriously, its been 'a thing' for decades... wtf)

display scaling is totally an option if you use 'full window' mode, you can scale a higher resolution than you have, which increases workload, or for instance on a 4K monitor, you can scale to between 2K and 4K and enjoy some extra pixels, @ 2K a pixel is a bit to big, but anywhere past 1.5x 1080p looks good, that's 2880x1620 ... a few percent increase over 2K ....

earlier today I was messing around with some aspect ratio stuff for someone with a triple monitor setup, and noticed some unexpected behaviours when I scaled the game into 16:10 ratios instead of the usual 16:9 which improved when I selected a 16:10 (2560x1600) normal resolution .... but it wasn't really surprising to see weird behaviour from the flash elements when you mess things around enough ...

Edited by NARC BAIT, 25 August 2017 - 11:18 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

GreyMatter51, on 25 August 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

Wow that looks very nice. I have no where near the skills, equipment, or money to make something like that. Plus the cats would probably be all over it

Ha ha.... My Son has a kitten, and it would be gone if it could reach this build and "play" with it. That is the advantage of having it wall mounted 6' in the air, not happening.

As for the equipment to do this, yeah, I have a lot of power tools, but I still found myself having to blow around an extra $400 dollars on two new routers, the right bits to cut the 1/4" Aluminum for the main back plate. I had all the bits to cut the granite due to my old job as a lead installer for 5 years, and that is why the granite wall mount got built first vs. the Aluminum one.

Skills needed are just basic construction skills and metal working. I understand its not for everyone, but there are companies that make wall mount cases like the P5 and P3. The main focus is getting your rig built though within your price range. The Ryzen 1700 non X version and 16gb of the G.Skill 3200mhz amd certified ram, a AsRock X370 Tachi or the professional board I have and a 1070 8gb should still be within your price range. It would be a very nice build, and I think you will not have any issues with it. You will be pushing the upper side of your price range, but it is doable. I would not drop down to a 350 board, or the 1600 series if I could afford not to, but that is just me.

[Bill Lumbar]

NARC BAIT, on 25 August 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

awesome, thanks for helping me to get that background, that I missed, way back when DDR4 became a thing, and I was still sitting by my FX with a fire extinguisher ... I haven't gotten my 4000mhz kit to behave 'good' over 3733mhz ... and seen very good results at 3600 MHz, but at the moment, I'm running at 3200 MHz with a profile from around 2666 MHz .... yielding the throughput from 3600mhz and saving 1/8 on overall latency ...

display scaling is totally an option if you use 'full window' mode, you can scale a higher resolution than you have, which increases workload, or for instance on a 4K monitor, you can scale to between 2K and 4K and enjoy some extra pixels, @ 2K a pixel is a bit to big, but anywhere past 1.5x 1080p looks good, that's 2880x1620 ... a few percent increase over 2K ....

earlier today I was messing around with some aspect ratio stuff for someone with a triple monitor setup, and noticed some unexpected behaviours when I scaled the game into 16:10 ratios instead of the usual 16:9 which improved when I selected a 16:10 (2560x1600) normal resolution .... but it wasn't really surprising to see weird behaviour from the flash elements when you mess things around enough ...

I thought about going with faster ram, but honestly, i was worried it wouldn't work right with Ryzen..... I chickened out, bought the bullet and bought the higher dollar Ryzen ram. Don't Judge me