87 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Seen comments where some people think you just flip a switch and boom, it works.

Nope.

Here is my list of what actually MUST be done to make 8v8 work in QP Queues:

1 Shrink Maps - some existing maps are large so boundaries need to be shrunk. List includes
Alpine Peaks
Forest Colony
Frozen City (not as much but does need be done)
Grim Plexus (not as much but does need be done)
Polar Highlands
River City (not as much but does need be done)
Terra Therma

I would even say cut down all maps larger than 10x10 to that size, same size as Crimson Strait, Tourmaline Desert and Viridian Bog.

2 Redesign Content on Maps - Now that some maps are smaller, they need to redo how things work. Spawn Points, Conquest Nodes, Assault and Incursion bases, Escort Paths and Domination points. Look at non-shrunken maps too like Crimson Strait needing spawn fixes in Domination.

3 Escort Fixes - Might as well cut down Escort Paths per map to 3 maximum instead of 4-5 like now. Too many times players go one way, Escort goes another especially on bigger maps. Rarely does that work for Defender. Might as well also look at Escort fixes like either it shoots back at nearest target or replace it with a player.

While looking like 3 easy steps, this involves some work time. You just do not want half the maps being bigger than they need be.

[Monkey Lover]

#4 group q Tonnage will need adjust(should be easy)
#5 group q tonnage balance will need a lot of work. groups of 2 are going to have it much harder. (not as easy)
#6 would be balance range/brawl weapons. This will be a big change.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 21 August 2017 - 09:02 AM.

[Ruar]

Agreed even though I'm still hoping 8v8 is cancelled. I'd also add HPG to your list of maps that are too big because it would need the spawn points moved inside the crater walls instead of outside at the least.

Conquest will need a lot of work to move the points closer.

What's sad is they could resize a lot of the maps now and add them into the current rotation for 12v12. They could double the number of maps simply be resizing some boundaries and providing fighting in areas where no fighting normally occurs. I'm not saying resize and remove... I'm saying resize and add. Polar could easily be turned into four different maps.

[KursedVixen]

Escort and incursion really need removed. they are hardly played.

Balance will be Key to making 8vs8 work. And i meana Real balance not IS biased Balance.

Smaller maps will erode Clan range advantage so shorter durations for clan lasers?

Edited by KursedVixen, 21 August 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Ruar]

KursedVixen, on 21 August 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Escort and incursion really need removed. they are hardly played.

Balance will be Key to making 8vs8 work.

I wonder how much of the discussion about whether the game should be 12v12 or 8v8 would be nullified by having a competent MM and PSR. If the 12v12 matches felt competitive more often then what arguments would be left for 8v8. Well, I keep seeing people talk about FPS but if your rig is bogging down because of the difference of 8 more mechs on the field of battle then the problem is your rig.

[KursedVixen]

Did you just cut n paste what you wanted of my post or did you get it before I edited?

[Ruar]

KursedVixen, on 21 August 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

Did you just cut n paste what you wanted of my post or did you get it before I edited?

Before the edit, otherwise I would have used ellipses.

My own edit-

Clan range won't be effected by smaller maps since the maps are still bigger than max range anyway. Canyon Network is a great example of a small map that is still plenty big enough where the Clan range advantage can reap big rewards if properly used.

Edited by Ruar, 21 August 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Xmith]

I see no reason to make maps smaller. People will just have to learn new tricks(strategies).

[MechaBattler]

I don't think we need to cut the new maps down in size. Rework spawn points probably. What they could and should do is bring back the old small maps.

[KodiakGW]

To all saying maps need to be resized before it happens, here is some history.

Alpine released February 2013
https://mwomercs.com...90-19-feb-2013/

Tourmaline released March 2013
https://mwomercs.com...04-19-mar-2013/

Change from 8v8 to 12v12 -August 2013
https://mwomercs.com...35-06-aug-2013/

Now, I could be wrong, but I believe those two maps have not changed in size since they were implemented. So, we were playing on these "huge" (check the links, their words, not mine) maps for about 6 months before 12v12 came along. I seem to recall not having any issue with them. In fact, sometimes they actually ended with a win that wasn't destroying all enemy mechs...unlike now.

Personally, I'd like to see a Escort game ending with only a MLX left trying to chew through a fresh VIP with their 8LMG and 3ERSL as it slowly lumbers toward the dropship.

Edited by KodiakGW, 21 August 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Wildstreak, on 21 August 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Seen comments where some people think you just flip a switch and boom, it works.

Nope.

Here is my list of what actually MUST be done to make 8v8 work in QP Queues:

1 Shrink Maps - some existing maps are large so boundaries need to be shrunk. List includes
Alpine Peaks
Forest Colony
Frozen City (not as much but does need be done)
Grim Plexus (not as much but does need be done)
Polar Highlands
River City (not as much but does need be done)
Terra Therma

I would even say cut down all maps larger than 10x10 to that size, same size as Crimson Strait, Tourmaline Desert and Viridian Bog.

2 Redesign Content on Maps - Now that some maps are smaller, they need to redo how things work. Spawn Points, Conquest Nodes, Assault and Incursion bases, Escort Paths and Domination points. Look at non-shrunken maps too like Crimson Strait needing spawn fixes in Domination.

3 Escort Fixes - Might as well cut down Escort Paths per map to 3 maximum instead of 4-5 like now. Too many times players go one way, Escort goes another especially on bigger maps. Rarely does that work for Defender. Might as well also look at Escort fixes like either it shoots back at nearest target or replace it with a player.

While looking like 3 easy steps, this involves some work time. You just do not want half the maps being bigger than they need be.

If all these things happen then I would hate it and that means I would be 100% against 8v8. One of the compelling arguments that proponents of 8v8 has been pushing is that less players will mean that more of the map could be used to engage combat. Now, you are proposing that the maps need to be shrunk which will force all the combat right back into the small areas where it is currently fought. I am skeptical about the 8v8 advocates claims in the first place but making the maps smaller so all battles must always take place in one area is something that I oppose.

[SOL Ranger]

What needs to happen after 8v8 is implemented:

• Increase team size by 4

Then the game will work.

[Lostdragon]

8v8 worked fine on big maps before, no need to resize. I would like to see original Forest Colony come back though, much prefer it over the new one.

[Coolant]

or not do 8v8 and keep it 12v12 or even 16v16

[Ruar]

16v16 would be great.

[SmoothCriminal]

Great idea! No sooner has PGI finally finished resizing and redoing the maps (which took about 3 years) then you demand they resize them again (which will probably take another 3 years)!

Any other ideas? Perhaps removing double heat sinks and then re-introducing them?

[N0ni]

Considering the majority of the map space (of all maps currently in 12v12 QP) are not used and are focused around the same small key points, i say leave maps as they are right now going back into 8v8.

Or just leave QP as 12v12.

(Would rather keep it 12v12, don't fix something that isn't broken.)

[Alan Davion]

KursedVixen, on 21 August 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

not IS biased Balance.

Again... I reiterate my point about if you think PGI are IS biased you're off your flipping rocker.

[Pariah Devalis]

The fewer mechs on the map, the more map can get utilized effectively. Less mechs to hide means you don't need nearly as dense cover to stay hidden, and you are less likely to be discovered right away allowing movement to "unexpected" places.

[HGAK47]

Wait why do they need to be cut down? So we can all be shoehorned into brawl warrior online? What if people enjoy playing the sniper role or long range support? What about lights that like to use that space to circle around and attempt to backstab and lay sneaky airstrikes accross an advancing line?

That is probably the tip of the iceberg but forcing everyone into your view of how to play the game is going to rustle some feathers.