41 replies to this topic

[Dread Render]

why stop at 8v8?
I would not mind 6v6 or even 4v4.
Would add allot of interesting scenarios to game play.

Edited by Dread Render, 22 August 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[SOL Ranger]

Khobai, on 22 August 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

its not really a bandaid since 8v8 fixes way more problems than queue times

1) increases TTK back to where it should be
2) helps make long range meta less dominant since no more 12 mech firing lines
3) light and medium mechs are less obsolete in 8v8
4) individual skill gets blotted out less

8v8 is just plain better

1. It doesn't, TTK will remain the same or even shorter because of high kill value and heavy kill focus to the landslide breaking point, lower sustainability requirements will push alpha heavy builds, SQP never had any practical focus fire use, at least not by more than 4-6 players. so there is no difference at best.

2. It doesn't, why would it. Higher omnipresent risk averse behaviour and higher kill value will push the long range meta viability and it might be even more popular than now, if you can manage to get a kill or two before the enemy even gets into range or has the time to kill yours then you are at an immense advantage already. Also there have never been 12 man long range firing lines let alone any firing lines nor very often more than 4-6 men focus firing in solo quick play. But I can assure you will see near 8 man formations and firing lines as more regular or even standard in 8v8 because it will be devastatingly effective to get quick kills as they can much more easily apply full movement and focus against an enemy in the current geometry, geometry that simply could not host 12 players very well without spreading it too much or causing LOS issues within the team itself.

3. "Less obsolete", that is hyperbole. Lights and mediums are not obsolete in 12v12 SQP, it just requires some more patience and wit to make it work as well as heavies. But I agree that the less enemies on field the better fast and agile mechs will perform in general, I just question the relevance of your argument. Should we make it 4v4 or even 1v1 because lights in general benefit from that too? There are design criteria to be considered beyond what we ourselves prefer in terms of maximum performance in the most optimal context possible, should we make maps with only tunnels and caves because someone happens to like assault brawls? If lights and mediums need adjustments then they should be adjusted accordingly, we should not limit the whole game context and remove fun and popular game modes just to do that.

4. Individual skill does not get "blotted out", your effort and skill is still 100% guaranteed and recorded even if it was 100v100, you just have a smaller part to play of the whole team and your contribution can only extend so far, it doesn't take away anything. Since when did a team become a problem description anyway? For that matter Solaris is coming soon, so you can carry 100% in 1v1 as much as you want in the ultimate game mode design you could possibly think of I reckon. Other people feel differently and I belive there is room for both warfare and arena fighting in a casual manner, let people pick what they like themselves, you get Solaris, let us keep 12v12 SQP for our casual kicks as the only possible game mode for it.

8v8 is simply more dysfunctional for a solo casual game mode and it is also the polar opposite direction of what I want to see in MWO purely subjectively.

PGI needs to stop this 8v8 SQP regression of MWO, after implementing Solaris they should focus on how to make grander 12v12+ warfare oriented casual game modes, focused on fun war elements and persistent combat, maybe even making it as a non-trivial part of FW influence but as an easily accessible casual component thereof.

[Archer Magnus]

I don't understand technically how someone can start a game and not be connected. I really don't.

If that could be fixed, shouldn't waiting times be under 30 seconds?

[Brain Cancer]

Honestly, the "ready stage" is a transitory period to give people a chance to chat before match start and let late connectors still get in.

I don't see a need to change that part.

Quote

You mean the improvement that because games in 8v8 SQP

Which is none of what you mentioned, honestly. It reduces the amount of fits the MM goes through to get it's 24 people, as 16 is easier to find and assign. Pure and simple. Some flaws in the game it'll mitigate but not remove, but things like map spawn locations are none of those.

[Dimento Graven]

wintersborn, on 21 August 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

I am sure you all know this but I figured I would let you know why I can never get any friends to play this game.


On average it takes 3 minutes of waiting before playing for 6 minutes.

How about removing the ready up "feature" and reducing the load times? Maybe even make re spawns for public queues, that would also reduce the domino death effect that makes almost every game a zerg/stomp/roll etc.

Yep, here's how it is now:

Start the portal.
Click Play.
Wait for MWO to startup.
Unnecessary splash screen
Press space.
Unnecessary splash screen
Press space.
Unnecessary splash screen
Press space.
Finally log into game.
Wait for Hangar to come up (and depending on how many 'mechs you own, the longer this will probably take).
Sales screen splash (I won't say it's unnecessary, and maybe I haven't checked the settings and this can be defaulted to off?).
Minimize it.

AT THIS POINT, you can drop into quick play, so click it.

Depending on time of day, servers selected, 'mech selected, you'll have a 5 second to 5 minute wait searching for a match.

A match is finally found, 8 seconds (maybe it's different don't exactly remember and don't pay too close attention at this point) of map and mode voting.

Cycle to loading screen - another 30 to 90 second wait.
Cycle to connecting screen - Upwards of 1.5 minutes depending on the ability of the 23 others to connect.
Cycle to drop ship
And FINALLY... You're dropped and can actually play the game.

It definitely feels clunky compared to other team based shooters...

[wintersborn]

Not that I think that PGI can handle it but I would like to see More vs More (24vs24 etc.)

More Pew Pew time and less Domino effect stomps.

Hell in slow mechs you can spend half your time in game just trying to get to the first shot.

[Relishcakes]

wintersborn, on 21 August 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

I am sure you all know this but I figured I would let you know why I can never get any friends to play this game.


On average it takes 3 minutes of waiting before playing for 6 minutes.

How about removing the ready up "feature" and reducing the load times? Maybe even make re spawns for public queues, that would also reduce the domino death effect that makes almost every game a zerg/stomp/roll etc.

playing on lights and mediums gets me about 30 seconds of wait. I dunno what you do...maybe don't JUST play assaults?

[Jun Watarase]

Relishcakes, on 22 August 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

playing on lights and mediums gets me about 30 seconds of wait. I dunno what you do...maybe don't JUST play assaults?

Protip : hes talking about queue time sand loading times, not walking times.

[Marcomies]

I have no problem with occasional several minute long waiting times. I take them over compromised matchmaking (like mismatched tonnage, mech classes or player-tiers) any time. Lowering loading times and adding an option to start searching for next match directly from the battle-end screen would reduce the amount of wasted time.

I like 12v12 match size and really don't want it to be lowered. The murderball is a bit too ultimate strategy but I don't see why it wouldn't be any less so in 8v8 matches or even 2v2 for that matter. The only way to make muderball not the only valid strategy is via game modes, much like conquest is already doing to some degree.

[Angel of Annihilation]

ocular tb, on 21 August 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

Ready button doesn't do anything unless everybody hits it and if everybody hits it, everybody is already connected and the timer automatically goes down to 10 seconds anyway so the button doesn't need to be there anymore. The countdown I think is fine how it is. It gives everyone a minute or so to connect and if everyone connects early the counter drops to 10.

Now as far as other things to make it quicker, how about random maps and having mode selection option like we had before? That would at least reduce the wait a little bit. 8v8 might help too since it doesn't have to look for as many people.

I agree. Remove the map voting. Not only does it drastically limit the variety of maps we get to play on but lets face it, it means even more wait time before a match while everyone is voting for the map they want to play.

[Bigbacon]

Still too much waiting..
Waiting to map vote, waiting for long load times, waiting at the ready screen, waiting for drop ship animations.

You wait WAY longer foreverything but the initial MM..

8v8 wont fix anything.....it will make everything worse.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Stonefalcon, on 21 August 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

8v8 will go a long way to helping the waiting times.

I dont necessarily agree with this. Only needing 16 people instead of 24 is not going to make the matchmaking any faster unless you meet the matchmaking criteria.
Once you get to the game screen the time to wait is only dependent on each and every client contacting the game server to say they are ready to go. I have noticed some players are always last by a long way to be connected. Either they have crap hardware or crap internet which slows everyone down.

When I take assualts it takes longer to get into a game, even from Australia I dont feel it takes that long. If I take a medium I seem to get a game very quickly. Also Im happy to play on any of the servers, some will only play on there local regions server, this will mean that they will have to wait longer for a game to form.

So overall what are the matchmaking servers doing to setup a game, I would love for the Dev's to actually post this?

• region
  
• overall side weight limit
  
• pilot tier rating

not sure if there are more.

[Relishcakes]

Jun Watarase, on 22 August 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

Protip : hes talking about queue time sand loading times, not walking times.

I wasn't talking about walking times either, the highest density of players is the assaults and heavies. That's why they have a longer queue time...the MM tries to balance the teams weight wise.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Simple answer really to this question

Have 8v8 and 12v12 as selectable drop options like the regions.

If you like one more than the other you can "WAIT" for the one you want.

[Methanoid]

Stonefalcon, on 21 August 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

8v8 will go a long way to helping the waiting times.

ive never waited more than a minute for a QP game, if anything FP/CP need 8v8, they are the underperforming gametypes that people wait ages for, PGI have their idea back to front.

A Really Old Clan Dude, on 22 August 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Simple answer really to this question

Have 8v8 and 12v12 as selectable drop options like the regions.

If you like one more than the other you can "WAIT" for the one you want.

and it will also remove peoples guesswork from the equation of which is going to be more popular, just enable both, check back after a few months and see which has been the most popular/populated over that time.

This removes 100% the guesswork and theory craft that many come up with, abandon guesswork, adopt factual numbers.

[wintersborn]

I am in CA, tier 3 and play lights mainly but a few assaults for the lols.
It doesn't seem to matter if I play a light or not, it may be a few seconds off at peak time but still....... Half the time in game is not Pew Pew'ing.

Did they ever do re spawns?

[Athom83]

I find a match within 15-20 seconds here in T2.

Stonefalcon, on 21 August 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

8v8 will go a long way to helping the waiting times.

I'd rather wait 5 minutes for a proper 12v12.

[MadRover]

El Bandito, on 22 August 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Bandaid is easy and fast to implement as stop-gap measure. PGI can put on a bandaid while they find a way to address the issue. Besides, with MWO so resource intensive as is, 8v8 will help more players to actually play this game with good FPS in the first place.

Then explain to me how to fix the issue because it is PGI's own fault for this foolishness. The only way for PGI to fix the issue is to bring more people in I.E advertise advertise advertise and having a solid game to advertise with. With the drive people away mission that PGI appears to be doing, it's a band aid fix to a problem that PGI could and should have avoided and can't be fixed with band aids. Either PGI fixes the game, or they will continue to lose more and more players. End of story.

[vibrant]

Clownwarlord, on 22 August 2017 - 03:23 AM, said:

8 v 8 will help resolve the issue of long wait times but there is one issue with going to 8 v 8 and that is the maps then will be TOO BIG!. Anyone remember when both teams would bypass each other on the way to enemy camp? I do, and then you would get people calling each other ******* and cowards as the cap race would take place.

I don't see how the maps will be too big. We all know the 1-2 spots where every match plays out on each map. Where all players will continue to go. It will be the same as before. There's still 2/3s of the mechs on the field, you're not going to suddenly miss a group of mechs because there's a few less.

[Bigbacon]

Nema Nabojiv, on 22 August 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

Most of 8v8 supporters actually did played 8v8 before and agree it was better than 12v12.

And the game was almost completely different back then. The current game 8v8 wont be this glorious amazing thing.
But if 8v8 happens you can bet your *** ill be light meching to my own drum to see the tears flow

In the end they will cater to the few crybaby tryhards and whatever ngng says they want .

Edited by Bigbacon, 25 August 2017 - 04:15 PM.