181 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

And somehow being beat up is supposed to mean "lights should be able to kill you with little no effort"?

I can have an open torso and go up against assault mechs because I know I can use some skill to help mitigate the damage to that area. I see a light with MGs and I know I'm losing that torso and probably about to die.

That just doesn't seem balanced.

If you weren't beat up, would you still be scared of that same Light?

A 'mech that is only a credible threat to a damaged 'mech, is a 'mech that is useless before that point.

[Ruar]

Jay Leon Hart, on 23 August 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

If you weren't beat up, would you still be scared of that same Light?

A 'mech that is only a credible threat to a damaged 'mech, is a 'mech that is useless before that point.

It really depends on how that light is equipped, similar to any other mech.

If I didn't have an open torso than that light would get the same attention as any other mech I deem a threat. Sometimes more because hit reg makes it tough to bring down a light as easily as something else.

[Cato Zilks]

tker 669, on 23 August 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

I will try to make this simple so that you can follow.

Issue isn't the huge damage...it is the auto critting. Crits are waaay too high currently. Seeing people running in and facehugging because they know in seconds the opponent will have no more weapons.

It is ridiculous. Crits need to be lowered.

lol, ok douche!
MG's are designed to crit out weapons after armor is opened up. That is their one job.

8mg's have given the mist lynx a purpose and made them dangerous if unattended... but they still fall apart if you hit them with any force and they still need to get through your armor. Plus, the mist lynx is slow af for its class.

Edited by Cato Zilks, 23 August 2017 - 11:37 AM.

[Ruar]

Cato Zilks, on 23 August 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

lol, ok douche!
MG's are designed to crit out weapons after armor is opened up. That is their one job.

8mg's have given the mist lynx a purpose and made them dangerous if unattended... but they still fall apart if you hit them with any force and they still need to get through your armor.

Sounds like it's time for a changeup. Before MGs could be boated then it wasn't a big deal with the higher crit rate. Now that you can boat enough to hit 10dps plus crit bonus it's gone too far.

Having a 0 heat weapon with 8-10 DPS as long as the ammo holds out sounds pretty unique and worth using sometimes. Perhaps not on 80% of the chassis in play at a given time though. Usually when a weapon gets that much use it's because it's too good.

[chucklesMuch]

lol


Nope!


Neither are OP.... I think you are confusing fun with OP.... let's not nerf the fun lights.

Edit:
Ps... fun and fragIle lights, very little disassembly required...

Edited by chucklesMuch, 23 August 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

When you say 80% of chassis, are you referring to 80% of MLX? There aren't a whole lot of things the MLX can do well and, of those things, only the 8xB + 4xE is unique to the chassis.

[Admiral-Dan]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

And somehow being beat up is supposed to mean "lights should be able to kill you with little no effort"?

The purpose of armor is to protect you. No armor, no protection. Facing an enemy which can one-shot you is maybe not much effort but a high risk.

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

I can have an open torso and go up against assault mechs because I know I can use some skill to help mitigate the damage to that area. I see a light with MGs and I know I'm losing that torso and probably about to die.

A fresh MLX can be one-shot from most Mechs. So killing a heavily damaged Mechs doesn´t sounds unreasonable.

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

That just doesn't seem balanced.

That a Mech can kill you after you have lost more amor then he probably ever had seems unbalanced?

[Admiral-Dan]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

Before MGs could be boated then it wasn't a big deal with the higher crit rate

Blackjacks can boat 6 MG and Shadow Cats can boat 7 MG for a long time now. So 7 where OK and 8 are suddenly problematic?

[Ruar]

AlphaEtOmega, on 23 August 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Blackjacks can boat 6 MG and Shadow Cats can boat 7 MG for a long time now. So 7 where OK and 8 are suddenly problematic?

BJ and SHC are both large, relatively slow mechs. MLX is neither of those things. That's why it's suddenly problematic.

Oh, and they increased MG range with the LMG and boosted MG crit chance with the LMG.

[Davegt27]

I was sort of missing the nerf this broken that threads

we can now add a new category

you mean there are new weapons that actually work

lol

[Cato Zilks]

No, they get played because MG's are crazy fun and you know that they annoy people on the other team. While the DPS may be at ~10, it is very little damage at any given moment. Many lights will hit you with ~30 damage in .5 seconds with SPL's. MG's are hardly OP by comparison.

[Ruar]

Cato Zilks, on 23 August 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

No, they get played because MG's are crazy fun and you know that they annoy people on the other team. While the DPS may be at ~10, it is very little damage at any given moment. Many lights will hit you with ~30 damage in .5 seconds with SPL's. MG's are hardly OP by comparison.

Well, if it's just because MGs are fun then there's no reason not to dial down the crit chance since it's bothering so many other people. After all that won't change how fun they are to use or anything.

[Cato Zilks]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

BJ and SHC are both large, relatively slow mechs. MLX is neither of those things. That's why it's suddenly problematic.

Oh, and they increased MG range with the LMG and boosted MG crit chance with the LMG.

MLX is really slow. It is a 25 ton mech that goes < 130kph. Good builds for IS lights of that class all go 145+

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

And somehow being beat up is supposed to mean "lights should be able to kill you with little no effort"?

I can have an open torso and go up against assault mechs because I know I can use some skill to help mitigate the damage to that area. I see a light with MGs and I know I'm losing that torso and probably about to die.

That just doesn't seem balanced.

Being beat up means anything can kill you with little effort. Usually a single well aimed alpha will do you in if you're down to structure. Machine guns, even in the case of the 8 MG Mist Lynx still do less damage than a laser alpha would. Both are hitscan but the lasers have longer range and don't auto spread like MGs do.

Its much easier to spread the incoming damage from MGs, especially the pitiful 5.6 DPS of 8 LMGs, than it is to spread 76 damage over 1.5 seconds from some guy boating heavy lasers. It would take over 13 seconds for the machine gun boat to put out the same damage the laser guy did in 1.5.

What are you on about with this whole "there's no counter to MGs" thing?

[Ruar]

Dakota1000, on 23 August 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

Being beat up means anything can kill you with little effort. Usually a single well aimed alpha will do you in if you're down to structure. Machine guns, even in the case of the 8 MG Mist Lynx still do less damage than a laser alpha would. Both are hitscan but the lasers have longer range and don't auto spread like MGs do.

Its much easier to spread the incoming damage from MGs, especially the pitiful 5.6 DPS of 8 LMGs, than it is to spread 76 damage over 1.5 seconds from some guy boating heavy lasers. It would take over 13 seconds for the machine gun boat to put out the same damage the laser guy did in 1.5.

What are you on about with this whole "there's no counter to MGs" thing?

Yeah, that's not what I see in game. I guess your mileage varies.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Yeah, that's not what I see in game. I guess your mileage varies.

Pretty much, for the most part all I see from the Mist Lynxes is that they go and try to do something and get an arm blasted off then another and they just run around with 2 small lasers if whoever was shooting them didn't just decide to leg them before they get into range. Even once they are in range they are pretty much useless against someone who brought arm mounted weapons, or anyone fast enough to keep their front towards them, or anyone who stuck with the team well enough that their back is defended. It seems the only thing they have going for them is being vultures who can defeat horribly crippled mechs that have fallen behind or gotten separated from the team.

[Admiral-Dan]

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Oh, and they increased MG range with the LMG and boosted MG crit chance with the LMG.

The LMG range and crit chance was boosted with the Civil War patch. There was no whining about MGs after that patch, that whining started with the MLX-G.

Ruar, on 23 August 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

BJ and SHC are both large, relatively slow mechs. MLX is neither of those things. That's why it's suddenly problematic.

SHC has MASC which makes her even faster than a MLX. I think you are right the problem is that the MLX is more fragile but smaller then a SHC. So the real problem is that people are able to hit SHCs but can’t hit MLXs. That makes it to a problem of aiming skill and not of the Weapon.

[Ruar]

AlphaEtOmega, on 23 August 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

The LMG range and crit chance was boosted with the Civil War patch. There was no whining about MGs after that patch, that whining started with the MLX-G.


SHC has MASC which makes her even faster than a MLX. I think you are right the problem is that the MLX is more fragile but smaller then a SHC. So the real problem is that people are able to hit SHCs but can’t hit MLXs. That makes it to a problem of aiming skill and not of the Weapon.

Whatever makes you feel like your putting up some kind of valid argument man.

[Judah Malganis]

Quote

Pretty much, for the most part all I see from the Mist Lynxes is that they go and try to do something and get an arm blasted off then another and they just run around with 2 small lasers if whoever was shooting them didn't just decide to leg them before they get into range. Even once they are in range they are pretty much useless against someone who brought arm mounted weapons, or anyone fast enough to keep their front towards them, or anyone who stuck with the team well enough that their back is defended. It seems the only thing they have going for them is being vultures who can defeat horribly crippled mechs that have fallen behind or gotten separated from the team.

Yup. It's able to strip out a heavy/assault rear in 6-7 seconds from someone who doesn't move but if they turn, it suddenly becomes a 15-18 seconds of awkward dancing and if they have friends nearby that are willing to defend them you basically have to run away with them probably blowing off your arm on accident anyways since it's such a huge target.

I wonder how many of these complaints are coming from players who are accustomed to shaving tons of armor off their legs and rears so they can squeeze in a bigger gun or extra ammo and are now finding that to be a liability. There's supposed to be a tradeoff there, but they're not used to feelings its pinch.

[Mole]

My only problem with this strange new MG meta is that one of these damn things can stare ay my back for half a second and crit out every god damn weapon on my 'mech before I can react whether I know they are there or not. I was in my Griffin last night and was practically fresh except for my arms which I had been shielding with. Stupid little Mist Lynx gets behind me with 8 LMGs at 200m and sprays off my back, and I suddenly lost two medium lasers, my AMS, 4 SRM4s, and EVEN MY JUMP JETS. I didn't even KNOW jump jets were critable but after that happened nothing happened anymore when I hit my jumpjet button. I spent the rest of the match trying to be a weaponless meat shield for my team because there was simply nothing else for me to do.

Edited by Mole, 23 August 2017 - 12:52 PM.