134 replies to this topic

[Carl Vickers]

KursedVixen, on 23 August 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

because the complainers are like a bunch of politically correct imbeciles who don't think through what they're saying.


Canada? what is this canada you speak of? Do you mean capellans?

Lol, pot and kettle.

[poltergoost]

Well, I wanted to play 'massive robot wars'. Instead it looks like we'll be getting 'teeny robot arenas'

Oh well, if 8v8 is better for a smaller player base, and those like me who want big battles get bored and stop playing, then I guess it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

[DAYLEET]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

compared to 8v8 before.
my old videos had shown me that back in 8v8 days that was not so.

Leave the past where it belongs. I had the same experience as you in 2013 but it was 12v12 already. You can start a new account and play all over the place again, its a noob thing. With time people feel forced to always go the same place. Static spawn point dont help. People didnt listened back then either, that much i remember.

in 8v8 people can and will throw the match easily and much faster than in 12v12. You think with a group mentality, its not gona work in qp. It never has. Its another thing that a very small part of the player base want to force on others because they think they will have less steering-wheel underhive on their team. Think again, you will have to carry them a lot harder now.

[Bigbacon]

El Bandito, on 23 August 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Hah!

12 vs 12
More people means more pugs/discos/AFKs/people not in my tier.
More deathballing and nascaring compared to 8v8 before.
Lower chance of being surprised by the random unaccounted for enemy cause everyone huddles together in order not to be obliterated by 12 man from the opposing team.
Less fun and complex in 12v12. Every match goes relatively the same--my old videos had shown me that back in 8v8 days that was not so.
Less strategy and freedom in 12 vs 12. Old 8v8 had MORE C-Bill rewards, compared to when we just switched to 12v12.
8v8 is far more casual friendly thanks to reduced wait time, better MM and better FPS. People can actually try out the game without having to build better rig for it.

All of this is backwards

And you cannot compare old 8v8 to the current game. It is a completely different monster now.

If a comouter cant handle 24 mechs it isnt going to get better with 16.

Still not understanding the whole wait time thing. I dont feel i wait that long to get placed into a match. It is everything after that which takes forever.

Edited by Bigbacon, 23 August 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[Natred]

El bandito must have forgot the fundmental counting principle lessons in math class. Ok captain Nate will teach you how

8 vs 8 which turns into 16 people
That is 16 × 15 × 14 × 13 × 12 × 11 × 10 × 9 × 8 × 7 × 6 × 5 × 4 × 3 × 2 × 1
8 vs 8 possible outcomes approximately 20,922,789,888,000

As you can imagine this number goes up astronomically with 24 people instead of 16
24×23×22×21×20×19×18×17×16×15×14×13×12×11×10×9×8×7×6×5×4×3×2×1

12 vs 12 possible outcomes approximately 6,204,484,020,000,000,000,000
My phone started rounding the numbers exponentially wanted to type it out so you can see the difference.

Theoretical possible outcomes which equates to more diverse interesring games.

Kalasa if i shine light on a rock does some light pass through it?

There some math.. lol

Edited by Natred, 23 August 2017 - 06:10 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

DAYLEET, on 23 August 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

in 8v8 people can and will throw the match easily and much faster than in 12v12. You think with a group mentality, its not gona work in qp. It never has. Its another thing that a very small part of the player base want to force on others because they think they will have less steering-wheel underhive on their team. Think again, you will have to carry them a lot harder now.

this isnt the case, and no ones forcing anything on anyone,

1) PGI says they will look into it, and run some data and numbers,
2) PGI will set up a Time to switch to 8v8, which will last probably for 1-2 weeks,
3) its at this time PGI will gather data, this will also allow people to see how 8v8 feels to them,
4) after the Data is collected, and the Community is satisfied, PGI will run a Poll in the Client,
5) based on the Poll PGI & the Community will make the Decision to stay 12v12 or go 8v8,

this Poll wont be a Minority forcing its will on the Majority,
as this Community Poll will very much show the will of the Majority,

[Connor Davion]

Smites, on 23 August 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's weird how people were begging for PGI to go back to 8v8, and now that they might? We don't want it... why?

Many more silent players didn't ask to go to 8v8 and now we feel we must speak up or we will be forced into it by the more vocal players without saying our piece.

[Unendingmenace]

I myself would be all for Quick Play to be switched to 8v8 for a while. It works great in the comp scene.

[Connor Davion]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 August 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

this Poll wont be a Minority forcing its will on the Majority,
as this Community Poll will very much show the will of the Majority,

It still will be a minority no matter the outcome 12v12 or 8v8 because my bet is most people never visit the forums or read the news when they log in.

The only way that would work would be if the client some how forced you to answer before you could play.

Edited by Connor Davion, 23 August 2017 - 06:26 PM.

[KursedVixen]

less players less people to worry about getting behind me in lights.

[MadRover]

Connor Davion, on 23 August 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

It still will be a minority no matter the outcome 12v12 or 8v8 because my bet is most people never visit the forums or read the news when they log in.

The only way that would work would be if the client some how forced you to answer before you could play.

Not that I agree with forcing people to do anything but this sounds about right.

On a more serious note, I hope it stays 12v12. going 8v8 is a step in the wrong direction x5000

[KursedVixen]

Natred, on 23 August 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

El bandito must have forgot the fundmental counting principle lessons in math class. Ok captain Nate will teach you how

8 vs 8 which turns into 16 people
That is 16 × 15 × 14 × 13 × 12 × 11 × 10 × 9 × 8 × 7 × 6 × 5 × 4 × 3 × 2 × 1
8 vs 8 possible outcomes approximately 20,922,789,888,000

As you can imagine this number goes up astronomically with 24 people instead of 16
24×23×22×21×20×19×18×17×16×15×14×13×12×11×10×9×8×7×6×5×4×3×2×1

12 vs 12 possible outcomes approximately 6,204,484,020,000,000,000,000
My phone started rounding the numbers exponentially wanted to type it out so you can see the difference.

Theoretical possible outcomes which equates to more diverse interesring games.

Kalasa if i shine light on a rock does some light pass through it?

There some math.. lol

What's the rocks composition? color?

[Andi Nagasia]

Connor Davion, on 23 August 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

It still will be a minority no matter the outcome 12v12 or 8v8 because my bet is most people never visit the forums or read the news when they log in.

The only way that would work would be if the client some how forced you to answer before you could play.

last time their was a Clian Vote it was semi forced(should PGI make Phoenix available again? Poll)
it covered the Screen, and had the Full Question(above) and had a Vote button and Poll link,
it also had a timer on it so you couldnt cancel it until you waited 5-10 seconds,

i remember because some complained about not being able to exit the Announcement,
as they had to wait those 5-10 seconds, which took too much out of their Play time,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 23 August 2017 - 06:46 PM.

[Connor Davion]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 August 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

last time their was a Clian Vote it was semi forced(should PGI make Phoenix available again? Poll)
it covered the Screen, and had the Full Question(above) and had a Vote button and Poll link,
it also had a timer on it so you couldnt cancel it until you waited 5-10 seconds,

i remember because some complained about not being able to exit the Announcement,
as they had to wait those 5-10 seconds, which took too much out of their Play time,

Must of been during one of my breaks. If they can do this I would support a vote 100%

My only concern regarding a vote is if 51% go for 8v8 did PGI just make 49% of the player base salty? I know 100% of us on the forums are always salty about something , but I am talking about the silent ones? If so what % of those will be salty enough to move on? This game really can't afford to lose much more of the player base.

[El Bandito]

DAYLEET, on 23 August 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

in 8v8 people can and will throw the match easily and much faster than in 12v12. You think with a group mentality, its not gona work in qp. It never has. Its another thing that a very small part of the player base want to force on others because they think they will have less steering-wheel underhive on their team. Think again, you will have to carry them a lot harder now.

Nope. It is much easier to carry in 8v8 than 12v12. Me killing 4 mechs does far more contirbution in 8v8 than 12v12.

Connor Davion, on 23 August 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

It still will be a minority no matter the outcome 12v12 or 8v8 because my bet is most people never visit the forums or read the news when they log in.

The only way that would work would be if the client some how forced you to answer before you could play.

So what? It is how representation works. As long as about 1 K people vote on the issue, that's enough data to decide.

Bigbacon, on 23 August 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

All of this is backwards

And you cannot compare old 8v8 to the current game. It is a completely different monster now.

If a comouter cant handle 24 mechs it isnt going to get better with 16.

Oh yes it can. When 12v12 was implemented, a lot of people lost 10-30 FPS on their rig, compared to 8v8. Consequently we had lost players cause they simply couldn't play the game at enjoyable level anymore.

Bigbacon, on 23 August 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Still not understanding the whole wait time thing. I dont feel i wait that long to get placed into a match. It is everything after that which takes forever.

During off hours, even NA server is slow. And even during prime time, the MM is killing itself to make that wait time shorter in 12v12. 8v8 will distribute players far better, and less 3-4s will group with T1s.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 August 2017 - 07:01 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DAYLEET, on 23 August 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

What 12v12 comp? where are those?

MLMW and Mercstar's Invitationals were both 12 mans and I think MRBC at one point was 12v12 as well. It was switched away from because 8v8 was better.

DAYLEET, on 23 August 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Conquest and invasion works great in 12v12 qp.

I think you mean Incursion, not that it is any better. Conquest doesn't work because most don't know how to play it leading to more confusion than is necessary for PUGs. The whole point of objectives in a No Respawn game mode is to prevent camping, of which takes coordination that 95% of PUGs aren't willing or capable of.

DAYLEET, on 23 August 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

in 30v30 having 2 assault on side cap would not be such a liability as it is in 12v12 or downright game ending in 8v8.

Maybe covering, but not capping. People don't know how to play conquest (it is by being able to shift and cover a three cap). Sending an assault to cap would be stupid even with 30 people on the field because the game would essentially boil down to trench warfare at that point.

DAYLEET, on 23 August 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

QP is meant to have a chaotic part, sometimes it works better than other times. Not sanitized/choregraphed comp where everything is planed from each mech in the team to their laodout etc.

QP is already chaotic, not sure why you think we need more of it.

[Andi Nagasia]

Connor Davion, on 23 August 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

Must of been during one of my breaks. If they can do this I would support a vote 100%

My only concern regarding a vote is if 51% go for 8v8 did PGI just make 49% of the player base salty? I know 100% of us on the forums are always salty about something , but I am talking about the silent ones? If so what % of those will be salty enough to move on? This game really can't afford to lose much more of the player base.

i would assume PGI would need ether a 3/4th Majority(75%) or a 2/3th Majority(67%) for the vote to go threw,
any less than 66% would be up to PGI and what their Data shows and what they feel is best for MWO,

[Natred]

The majority of people i play with completely agree that 12 vs 12 is the way to go. So I had to be the voice of the people.

[Transmasculine Housemouse]

(Starts kinda rambly, TL;DR at the bottom.)

I feel like the introduction of the 8v8 comp mode was a little bit of a mixed blessing, in the sense that it gave players that wanted an actual metric compared to other players what they wanted. But it also opened up a whole 'nother avenue of validation for toxic a55holes that view this game as far more than what it is.

With this 8v8 QP item coming up so recently after that system was introduced, I can't help but feel like MWO is kinda going in the same direction as other "Major League Games" go. If I wanted to get yelled at for being bad every game I mess up a little in, I would play League of Legends, or Smite, or some other shty MOBA. The entire reason I, personally, enjoy this game is the tactical aspect of it. The actual teamwork that is involved, not just building items to break your character, not just getting kills to look good, not using your teammates just to better yourself.

When I first started playing (circa 2013), I was blown away by the level of teamwork that people displayed in ***** solo queue. People talked and shared information readily and freely. You didn't need to worry about some *******(s) having their mic(s) muted because they think they're better than you, or having to drag basic map coordinates for the entire enemy team out of your allies.

I digressed, and I apologize. All I see here is the game moving backwards, and taking on a horrifyingly competitive edge even in the casual modes. It's been slowly happening for about a year or two now, and all I can say is that the 8v8 QP mode is not the answer to your prayers. If you want more strategy, more variety, more spice in your games you need to include more moving parts in the machine. Don't vote for a reduction in team sizes, vote for an increase in game size. Vote for an increase in their spending on advertising to restore the playerbase. Make all of your ideas, even if they seem like little things, known to the devs. Sometimes, the best ideas that companies have are from their customers.

TL;DR: If I wanted to play some ******** competitive game, I wouldn't be playing MWO. I'd play LoL, Smite, Paragon, etc. Keep that out of my strategic, giant stompy robots.

[DAYLEET]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

MLMW and Mercstar's Invitationals were both 12 mans and I think MRBC at one point was 12v12 as well. It was switched away from because 8v8 was better.

I have not kept track of anything unofficial.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

I think you mean Incursion, not that it is any better. Conquest doesn't work because most don't know how to play it leading to more confusion than is necessary for PUGs. The whole point of objectives in a No Respawn game mode is to prevent camping, of which takes coordination that 95% of PUGs aren't willing or capable of.

I did mean Incursion yes. You're blaming the people but i think everything needs polishing, not just the player base. The game mode, the maps and yes i do believe that more people could make the game mode more interesting. Incursion need more work. Any game mode that at its base, requires the least effort to win, is bad.

Conquest works, iu dunno why you say it doesnt. But now that PGI allows games with 5 assault and 4 heavies per team... yeah, the game mode can seem out of place. removal of 3/3/3/3 Is another one of our great compromise of making the game worse now while bleed more people away in return of... faster drop? aint downward spiral fun!

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Maybe covering, but not capping. People don't know how to play conquest (it is by being able to shift and cover a three cap). Sending an assault to cap would be stupid even with 30 people on the field because the game would essentially boil down to trench warfare at that point.

You're blaming the people again. Which explain why you want to fix buckets. Players aint the problem. Its either the implementation of the game mode, the given maps for the game mode or you accepting that you cant control everyone at all time. Just because someone doesnt do exactly what you think he should be doing at that time, dont mean hes derping and... i KNOW! i hate seeing the team split in 3 or 4 groups but its rare, just requeue.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

QP is already chaotic, not sure why you think we need more of it.

NAh. I was just making a point of differentiating comp from pugs. Because we keep using comp mode as an example but they dont relate really. My own comp experience really was pugs v pugs so i used it as an example.

Transmasculine Housemouse, on 23 August 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

When I first started playing (circa 2013), I was blown away by the level of teamwork that people displayed in ***** solo queue. People talked and shared information readily and freely. You didn't need to worry about some *******(s) having their mic(s) muted because they think they're better than you, or having to drag basic map coordinates for the entire enemy team out of your allies.

When i joined in 2013, you could not drop with a faction icon without begin invited to a TS. If id been given a buck every single time i was invited into Marik ts... or if only voip had been implemented in beta...

Edited by DAYLEET, 23 August 2017 - 08:13 PM.