58 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JC Daxion, on 24 August 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

Firestarters are better IMO since the LFE and new tech. I've had plenty of good matches in them.

The only thing that really helped Firestarters was the both the structure quirks and the nerfing of cSPLs. iERMLs helped it a bit but not near as much as the previous mentioned items and LFEs are still pointless for lights.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 August 2017 - 08:01 AM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Jun Watarase, on 24 August 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Leveling my ACH and it is far easier than playing a heavy or assault.

-Lag shield basically makes you immune to anything that isnt on the level of OP IS pulse lasers, streaks or LRM boats. I frequently see mechs shoot me on my screen before i start reversing behind cover, and i take almost no damage whatsoever. And they started shooting when i was stationery. The amount of fire that i can take from most weapons and receive almost no damage is amazing...it is much better survivability than a heavy/assault.

The biggest problem survivabiliy wise is that I can lose an arm instantly from one LRM volley or somethig like dual gauss/HPPC, but usually people are too busy shooting heavier mechs.

-Nobody wants to shoot a light mech when an assault is beairng down on them.

-The ability to re-position at 130 kph actually lets you avoid incoming pushes at will and conduct flank attacks with impunity. Trying to retreat in a 81 kph generally results in a bunch of heavies/assualts rounding the corner and dumping LPLs into your rear if you happen to be on the frontline.

-Getting XP itself is ridiculously easy when you can drop a UAV and watch 10+ scouting and UAV related rewards stream in.

Your light match score is the lowest among all your mechs so not sure what you are talking about. Your light ms is like 240 ish as compared to your assault which is 380 ish....

Edit: I mean if your light score is close to or even better than your heavier tonnages then maybe you have a point about it being easier than a heavy or assault. But your ms reflects otherwise.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 24 August 2017 - 08:20 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

The only thing that really helped Firestarters was the both the structure quirks and the nerfing of cSPLs. iERMLs helped it a bit but not near as much as the previous mentioned items and LFEs are still pointless for lights.

I dunno.. I play them and wolfhounds with the LFE.. they run at right about 140 KPH, and can still have 3 or 4 weapons after losing a side. It's very much like playing an ACH. Have you run them with them yet? I know you are a better player than me, but still, i find them pretty fun mechs right now. I've had plenty of matches in them getting 400-500+. But yea, PUG's are PUG's.. not sure i would run one in comp

[LordNothing]

most important thing is to stay low and keep moving. avoid moving in straight lines, your mech is fast and manuverable you should always be finding the lowest path possible. avoid cresting ridges whenever possible. move stealtfully, avoid crossing in front of the line of sight of other mechs. when you engage always attack from behind and do so quickly to minimize the time you show up on seismo.

take a little time to evaluate the situation before engaging. press r a lot to find weak targets (not to feed lerm boats). check loadouts and avoid streaks or anything thats fresh, unless its something like a lerm boat and has no defense against a light. if you engage try to get a feel for the pilots skill and evade if he shows any kind of light fighting capability (had a locust attack my dire wolf yesterday. i kept landing hits. he should have broken off, instead i broke his leg off and one alpha put him down). you should always be looking for isolated mechs without becoming too isolated yourself.

providing data for your team will help them engage which gives you more weakened targets to go after. but remember many a light pilot died while scouting. always think about escape routes in case things go sour. if you are holding targets for somone remember that the team will start looking for uavs and spotters when lerms start raining. if someone spots you get out of there. camping is also very dangerous as it requires holding high ground and standing still for short periods of time. this can get you one hit in a hurry. so if you do camp poke from multiple locations and minimize the time when you stop moving. shooting on the go is always better.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 August 2017 - 08:26 AM.

[DivineTomatoes]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 24 August 2017 - 01:26 PM.
unconstructive

[JC Daxion]

UnofficialOperator, on 24 August 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Your light match score is the lowest among all your mechs so not sure what you are talking about. Your light ms is like 240 ish as compared to your assault which is 380 ish....

Well the problem is, If you just play pugs, and don't play a ton of matches, or are messing around, you can run into a huge streak of bad matches. I am not going to say i'm the best light player around by any means.. But the last week i've just been squeezing in a few matches at around 3AM my time and if i don't carry, i typically loose. Last night 5 matches in a row i was near the top score, and it was horrible. Granted i was just screwing around in my DK.. but still.

Some mechs are easier to carry, others times like lots of players it is luck of the draw you know? For all of us middle of the road, decent players, things are not always that cut and dry, you know?

[4rcs1ne]

You lost me here:

Jun Watarase, on 24 August 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

...OP IS pulse lasers, streaks or LRM boats...

Edited by Matt2496, 24 August 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[dario03]

UnofficialOperator, on 24 August 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Your light match score is the lowest among all your mechs so not sure what you are talking about. Your light ms is like 240 ish as compared to your assault which is 380 ish....

I'm surprised we got to the second page before somebody pointed that out.

And yeah, sure lights are harder to hit and can reposition more, but that doesn't quite make up for the extra armor, dps, alpha, range, heatsinks, ammo, targeting computers, that you can get on bigger mechs. You can usually get all or at least most of those on heavies and assaults, heck you can even get all that and better quirks in some cases.

Edited by dario03, 24 August 2017 - 08:34 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JC Daxion, on 24 August 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

I dunno.. I play them and wolfhounds with the LFE.. they run at right about 140 KPH, and can still have 3 or 4 weapons after losing a side. It's very much like playing an ACH.

The difference is with an XL you can be better than an ACH by just having more firepower (whether it be a larger alpha or more sustained damage).

[FupDup]

If you think hitting lights is hard, try playing against a competent Genji or Tracer in Overwatch. It's gonna to make you real thankful and nostalgic for MWO lights pretty fast.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Try playing any light that isn't a top-tier light. This means no Locust, no Arctic Cheetah, no Urbanmech, &c.

The vast majority of lights have some combination of: speed too low to effectively brawl or escape from bad situations, anemic weapon load that makes them struggle to output 250+ damage, bad scaling/hitboxes that make them easy to hit, paper-thin armor.


The Locust is a good 'mech because it's really fast, really small, and has several variants with a lot of energy hardpoints. The Arctic Cheetah is a good 'mech because it has a lot of energy/ballistic (MG) hardpoints, solid speed, decent size, lots of jumpjets, and decent armor. The Urbanmech is a good 'mech because it's got the armor of a medium or small heavy on the hitboxes of a light, good JJs, 360 degree traverse, and the capability of carrying a weapon load as good as or better than a medium. The Wolfhound is a good 'mech because it can run a pure energy load as good as or better than a 55t medium on a LFE at respectable speeds (but it still struggles to put up good numbers for people who don't know how to play it thanks to the ****** scaling). And so forth

Basically lights, as a rule, are undergunned and really easy to kill. There are perhaps three or four chassis which are big enough exceptions to perform well consistently, and three or four more which have strong niche roles that some people are good at exploiting.

If you can't kill lights effectively, you're bad. If you complain about lights but only ever bring up Locusts and Arctic Cheetahs, you're sifting through a mound of **** to hold up a pair of crumpled wet-wipes as proof that the sewer is clean.

[Alex Morgaine]

Lykaon, on 24 August 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

As far as light mechs go the Arctic Cheetah is one of the easier mechs to use.

It's a slim humanoid (notoriously difficult to hit like the Spider)

Omni mech with generous and effective hardpoints (6 E + ECM is pretty much ideal for a harasser)

Has access to ECM allowing for easier approaches and escapes.

Can participate in the MG fest currently going on with those sweet 6 B hardpoint pair of arms.

If you want "hard" pilot an I.S. Jenner or Raven and see how that goes for you.It won't be nearly as "easy" as the Cheetah.

With a 175 engine (81kph or thereabouts)

Hard hat mode engage XD

Although slow by mwo standards a std 175 gives room for 3 med+ 1lpl just have to be careful or say bye bye to an xl check and run off with half a Mech ( joyfully with weapons still) xD

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 24 August 2017 - 10:05 AM.

[STEF_]

Jun Watarase, on 24 August 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Leveling my ACH and it is far easier than playing a heavy or assault.

-Lag shield basically makes you immune to anything that isnt on the level of OP IS pulse lasers, streaks or LRM boats. I frequently see mechs shoot me on my screen before i start reversing behind cover, and i take almost no damage whatsoever. And they started shooting when i was stationery. The amount of fire that i can take from most weapons and receive almost no damage is amazing...it is much better survivability than a heavy/assault.

The biggest problem survivabiliy wise is that I can lose an arm instantly from one LRM volley or somethig like dual gauss/HPPC, but usually people are too busy shooting heavier mechs.

-Nobody wants to shoot a light mech when an assault is beairng down on them.

-The ability to re-position at 130 kph actually lets you avoid incoming pushes at will and conduct flank attacks with impunity. Trying to retreat in a 81 kph generally results in a bunch of heavies/assualts rounding the corner and dumping LPLs into your rear if you happen to be on the frontline.

-Getting XP itself is ridiculously easy when you can drop a UAV and watch 10+ scouting and UAV related rewards stream in.

Reading this, it's very hard to think you are a tier 1.....and very easy to think MM needs a fix, with zero sum psr per match.

EVERY point you wrote.... is wrong. EVERY. (from a light pilot point of view)

[STEF_]

Tarogato, on 24 August 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

It's not lagshield. It's a combination of two things:

1. aiming in this game is fundamentally hard. You can't just move your crosshair around freely like it's Counterstrike, you're bound by the agility stats of your mech and you're constantly fighting against it. Not to mention that if you're arms free then you have two crosshairs that constantly tug on each other.

2. most of the targets in this game are so slow and large that aiming in this game as a result seems generally very very easy. People start taking it for granted. So when a small nimble target shows up rarely... they can't hit it [Redacted].



Now take your Cheetah against players who actually can aim at a Cheetah and hit it... and it's a different story. Suddenly you'd rather be in a Linebacker, not a Cheetah.

your 2 points seem to contraditc.

1) aiming is not hard: lasers are point and click..... but most are not able to do it. (and for "aiming" I mean not shooting at general direction, nor at big CT of any mech) FOr aming I mean "knowing WHERE to shoot" and managing to do it.

2) Light mechs are very easy to bring down..... they have LESS armor of all mechs.


BUT thanks to point 1, there is pleanty of potatoes saying lights are OP, or, as J.Watarase, saying lights are easy mode.

Edited by draiocht, 24 August 2017 - 01:40 PM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 August 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

1) aiming is not hard: lasers are point and click..... but most are not able to do it. (and for "aiming" I mean not shooting at general direction, nor at big CT of any mech) FOr aming I mean "knowing WHERE to shoot" and managing to do it.

Lasers are a bit more unreliable in dealing with lights due to animations causing parts of your beam to miss and because lag seems to impact them more.

[Jun Watarase]

Matt2496, on 24 August 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

You lost me here:

I meant that I take pretty much no damage unless vs IS pulse lasers, streaks or LRMs. Ive had laser vomit EBJs alpha me when im stationery, only started moving mid burn, and the server decides that i take minimal damage. This is all on the oceanic server by the way.

[STEF_]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Lasers are a bit more unreliable in dealing with lights due to animations causing parts of your beam to miss and because lag seems to impact them more.

hit reg is better now than in the past.
And lag as well.
Lasers have a duration, so you can see how much u must lead the target to do dmg, that's why imo they are easier.
Dunno, it seems to me that light op whiners, are just whiners who cannot aim.

edit: mw3 lag..... THAT was lag. Not here

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 24 August 2017 - 11:11 AM.

[MagicIndex]

Streaks, RAC's, MG's, Flamers... are also can be used against lights very painfully

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 August 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Lasers have a duration, so you can see how much u must lead the target to do dmg, that's why imo they are easier.

That still means you are potentially doing scratch damage. IDK, I find PPCs/Gauss much more reliable than lasers when it comes to dealing with lights.

[Ruar]

I wouldn't say playing lights is hard, I would say it takes a different skill set to be enjoyable.

Light mechs require strict attention paid to positioning and fire control. They are scalpels while the rest of the mechs are daggers, K-bars, or hatchets. Some people enjoy the change of pace lights offer, some don't.

Lights can be just as rewarding as other mech classes, but they don't appeal to everyone. Which is why so many think lights are underpowered and need buffs. The truth is lights are just fine and simply need a different style of thought to play correctly. When people can't switch the way they look at the game they end up claiming the problem is the mechs when really it's just the players.

That said, I'm one of those people that don't enjoy light mech play. I prefer having more armor because it lets me make mistakes more often. Light mechs are less forgiving and I just don't have the desire to change how I play in order to get the most out of lights.