33 replies to this topic

[Marcomies]

Part of it might be just rebalancing. In skill tree most of those things are considered top tier skills at least in their most upgraded form.

[Kanil]

Dimento Graven, on 24 August 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

Nope by the time I put everything else in place, I didn't have enough to get to the same level of speed tweak nor seismic.

The full Mobility tree is 40 skill points (and includes things that didn't exist pre-skill tree, like Torso Pitch.)
The full Operations tree is 25 points (and includes things that were [useless] modules prior, like Speed Retention.)
The full Sensor tree is 25 points (27 with ECM, but the KGC doesn't have that, and also has modules like Advanced Zoom.)

Combined, they're 90 skill points. They get you all the mobility skills, all of the heat skills, speed tweak, seismic and radar deprivation. If you discard some of the stuff that didn't exist/was modules you didn't have equipped, it's closer to 75 skill points, leaving you some to spend on other things.

Either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying you couldn't get, or you need to take a second look at what you actually can get.

Edited by Kanil, 24 August 2017 - 03:24 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Marcomies, on 24 August 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Part of it might be just rebalancing. In skill tree most of those things are considered top tier skills at least in their most upgraded form.

That's just it, it was a mastered 'mech, with 2 other variants also mastered, so the 'basic' skills were running at 2x, then I had the Adv. Radar Depravation, Adv. Seismic, UAV, Adv. Gauss Reload, and ERLL Range modules.

No way to get the old skill tree PLUS all effects from the modules I had loaded in the new skill tree...

[Felio]

Also, the speed tweak nerf was a kick in the balls to a lot of mechs. But they did that even before the skill tree.

[Trenchbird]

Somehow, I'm entirely unbothered by the fact people's mechs, my own units included, were negatively affected by the change in skill tree. The new one's better because it forces you to make choices, instead of being "Straight upgrade, buy two, do the same, always get radar derp and seismic, and related weapon quirks, maybe Advanced Zoom".

Edited by Catten Hart, 24 August 2017 - 10:10 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Catten Hart, on 24 August 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

Somehow, I'm entirely unbothered by the fact people's mechs, my own units included, were negatively affected by the change in skill tree. The new one's better because it forces you to make choices, instead of being "Straight upgrade, buy two, do the same, always get radar derp and seismic, and related weapon quirks, maybe Advanced Zoom".

It's still straight upgrades, there's just more of an opportunity cost...but not much of one.

[Trenchbird]

I'd say overall the cost of fully mastering a mech costs, C-Bill and XP wise, feels about the same, maybe even a bit better. I don't feel like I'm slogging through constant fights to upgrade one skill, I feel like I'm progressively upgrading my mech between fights.

So the small increments works for my enjoyment of the game.

[Y E O N N E]

Catten Hart, on 24 August 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

I'd say overall the cost of fully mastering a mech costs, C-Bill and XP wise, feels about the same, maybe even a bit better. I don't feel like I'm slogging through constant fights to upgrade one skill, I feel like I'm progressively upgrading my mech between fights.

So the small increments works for my enjoyment of the game.

That's not what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is that, yes, it is a progression. A progression from worse to better, which is frankly inappropriate for the genre of game that this is. It should be a progression from neutral to specialized, but it isn't. An upgraded 'Mech is just as good as the base one, with some extra capability one way or another.

[Marcomies]

Sure it hurts when your best builds get nerfed but that's how balancing works. The new skill tree system also isn't just a simple downgrade on the old effects but instead a system that adds new layer of choices and I think is much more motivating. It still lets you specialize but it doesn't allow as much cherry picking as the old system. Fully upgrading a mech still makes a noticeable difference.

Edited by Marcomies, 25 August 2017 - 03:34 AM.

[InfinityBall]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 August 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

It's still straight upgrades, there's just more of an opportunity cost...but not much of one.

Tell it to urbies in the mobility tree.

[Stone Wall]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 24 August 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Funny thing MWO tree is very similar in the way it works to the generally praised Path of Exile skill tree. With the same mechanic of having to choose a path to best skills, only there there is one big (gigantic) tree, not several smaller ones, what makes it even more about buying tons of not that important nodes on the path to the desired ones. Funnily, never heard complaints about that there. Is it this community or the pvp environment making people so bitter about anything they don't totally endorse? Maybe both?

But Path of Exile is an amazing ARPG that needs that skill tree. MWO is mediocre Mech game that doesn't need the skill tree. Your skill in MechWarrior should be from your own two hands, not from Hero Mechs or skill points.

[MischiefSC]

There's a game on Steam called Conan Exiles. It's in Early Access, only been out a few months. Fun, if you like Conan.

They just released a big update. It had a whole new region and tons of new gear to craft and use. So on of the new ingredients is Black Ice. WTF is that? So I Google it and in 10 seconds have a complete run-down on where to get it and use it.

That's okay. It's a brand new early access game still in alpha that's a few months old.

No Mans Sky had a big update too. Haven't played it in many months. The new update is incredible - tons of content, honestly it's a really good game now. All the new content was described to me in game. I didn't have to touch a single outside source to understand and use any of the new content.

No Mans Sky has been released for a year.

MWO, several years old, still has a worse NPE and in-game guidance than a 5 month old Early Access game still in alpha. It's not even close to games produced by small studios like Hello Games with No Mans Sky that is still only a year old.

This is a space where MWO really suffers and there's no question it hurts the population numbers. You shouldn't have to hint up and parse the relevant dev post to figure out how stuff in game works.

[KodiakGW]

Op...just an FYI. I don't use any of those in the link poster earlier. Operations is a complete waste because of all the gating behind useless skills. Advanced Gyros, Hill Climb, and Speed Retention beyond one node are useless on my new ACH-E. I also don't use it on any of my other mechs. So any that start off saying to invest in it, ignore.

But, they some give you a bit of insight as to the best path to focus on in the Firepower tree (mirrored zig zag), and Mobility to get you back to Elite level double efficiencies if you want to get back that same "feel". Some have been maxing out the Misc Tree so they can spam consumables. Use this link to better plan what you want to do. Gives a nice synopsis on the right hand side.

https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/

I'd go into more detail, but I know I'm already drawing the ire of the Skill Tree White Knights. You'll notice all of them come back to the same argument why it was needed. To "get rid of the rule of three", which could have been done without this mess.

[Ph30nix]

Jackofallpots, on 24 August 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

Try out some of the new weapons

the Rotary AC 5 gives me the vapors

I now have Super nipples to touch people with

Edited by Ph30nix, 26 August 2017 - 08:37 AM.