19 replies to this topic

[Savage Wolf]

As we approach 8v8 and Solaris is seems more relevant than ever to split the queues based on playstyle rather than some other abitrary division.
My experience both in game and in the forums is that the player base falls into mainly two groups: people who want combat and those who want objectives. There is also a division between those that really want immersion and roleplay and those who don't care. So I thought we should make a bucket for each. Like this...

Solaris: This will be for people who loves duels and combat. There will also be lots of space for immersion and roleplay. Solaris should be very doable to make it feel like the lore.

Quick Play: As the name suggest is fast and furious. This really only leaves room for some intense combat and this is the focus. Game modes should only be Skirmish, Assault and Domination and no respawns. The game modes should ensure people fight and keep fighting until it's on to the next match. No sitting in boxes for too long and no chasing the last hidden coward. Not much immersion in this queue.

Objective Play: This is for people who wants to focus on winning through objectives. Most if not all game modes have respawns and the game modes played are Conquest and Siege, maybe Incursion if it is fixed. The game modes should make the most likely victory condition the objectives and not enemy team wipe. Rewards should also encourage this. With the right game modes we can also introduce some immersion.

Faction Warfare: This is mostly Objective Play with high levels of immersion. But sadly it really requires a massive player base with active units and massive amounts of development time just to actually make it a good immersive experience. So sadly, I don't think this is viable to do or keep alive.

I think this will make most players happy with at least one queue where they like to play. This can also potentially increase the player base of the game as it will have more broad appeal. Currently we only have a combat queue and a roleplaying queue and the last one isn't doing well.

Whatcha think?

[Asym]

Well said. FP is dead IMO. With it goes the storyline of the MW Universe. FP is the "point" of this game. If not, why is there IS and Clan distinctions?

If MWO goes down this route, and I believe they are "de-evolving" the game into an arena shooter to save operating costs and to adapt a micro-sale paradigm other games successfully use, many of the players will just leave and a whole host of others will be very happy with whatever happens after Duncan Fisher calls his first match?!?!

I can't see MWO evolving into a realm the Space Sims operate in: too expensive and would split the player base yet again because of the difficulty.... Many MWO players on my team have tried and are still tying to master "space" and have and are coming back to MWO because space sims are pretty difficult.........

You analysis is pretty darn close to where we are......PGI is headed towards simplification and that style of play, has a player base.

Edited by Asym, 25 August 2017 - 05:46 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

I guess I forgot to mention Mechwarrior 5 Mercenaries as what will hopefully save those who are really just interested in the universe and to immerse therein. A single player game can much more easily achieve immersion and stay true to the lore than building a giant space mmo enviroment. So I hope those players can find solace in that.

[BourbonFaucet]

Your objective mode idea is brilliant. I'd love to play quick play objective modes with respawns since FP is so bad right now, but I love the challenge of drop decks and objectives to push for.

[Savage Wolf]

Can people think of any players being left out, except for the unfortunate immersion players that need to wait for MW5 or Battletech?

[Appogee]

I believe PGI will shutter MWO after MW5 comes out.

Either they will have the multiplayer aspect of MW5 available on launch, or they will bring it out multiplayer afterwards as a paid-for expansion.

And no, you won't be able to port all your MWO Mech Packs across from MWO to MW5.

[Luminis]

I like the idea. FP, from my point of view, was build with a larger, more active, more evenly spread population in mind. Letting that idea go might do the game some good, actually.

One thing I want to add: I'd love drop decks in Solaris.

Asym, on 25 August 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

If MWO goes down this route, and I believe they are "de-evolving" the game into an arena shooter to save operating costs and to adapt a micro-sale paradigm other games successfully use

I think that's pretty much what MWO is at present. For better or worse.

Appogee, on 26 August 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

I believe PGI will shutter MWO after MW5 comes out.

Either they will have the multiplayer aspect of MW5 available on launch, or they will bring it out multiplayer afterwards as a paid-for expansion.

And no, you won't be able to port all your MWO Mech Packs across from MWO to MW5.

That thought crossed my mind, too, but it seems illogical for PGI to develop stuff like Solaris only to drop support for MWO once MW5 is out. Unless, of course, it's the last thing they push out, just to keep the two games running parallel for a while, without devoting resources to MWO.

Keeping MWO(2) around as the multiplayer part of MW5 seems like another possibility, but I gotta be honest: Depending on how MW5 turns out, I might actually be okay with PGI killing MWO off in favour of MW5 multiplayer. It'd be a bit of a shame to lose whatever I put into MWO, but that'd be the case when moving on to another game anyway. If MW5 was developed by, say, Microsoft, that'd be the case as well.

[Savage Wolf]

Appogee, on 26 August 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

I believe PGI will shutter MWO after MW5 comes out.

Either they will have the multiplayer aspect of MW5 available on launch, or they will bring it out multiplayer afterwards as a paid-for expansion.

And no, you won't be able to port all your MWO Mech Packs across from MWO to MW5.

Making a multiplayer component to a single player game takes alot of work. So it's going to be some time after MW5 is released. It will also require it's entirely own economy that needs to be seperate from the single player so it might as well be entirely it's own game. Just like Faction Warfare basically needed to in order to be a proper space sim.

But it is possible that they will eventually use MW5 to create MWO2. But that's far out into the future.

[The Basilisk]

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

Can people think of any players being left out, except for the unfortunate immersion players that need to wait for MW5 or Battletech?

Yes I could think of all the hillarious wanna be competitive stuff finaly beeing thrown away.
Since PGI admitted they can't even implememnt a simple object collision mechanic without destroying hitreg completely there is no chance they will ever have a solution for othr problems that should be even simpler to solve.
I do not see how this could be seen as an e-sports title with the current hitreg, invisible walls, and graphics problems.

Better focus on an immersive Solaris experience (Arenacrowds, moveable walls, Stables, lots of not ingame things that could be done to improve the game without having to screw with the actuall mechcombat) and the objective thingy they want to implement.

Edited by The Basilisk, 26 August 2017 - 01:20 AM.

[Appogee]

Luminis, on 26 August 2017 - 12:53 AM, said:

That thought crossed my mind, too, but it seems illogical for PGI to develop stuff like Solaris only to drop support for MWO once MW5 is out. Unless, of course, it's the last thing they push out, just to keep the two games running parallel for a while, without devoting resources to MWO.

Despite PGI's protestations about 'two development teams', it's crystal clear they are just trying to keep MWO afloat and bringing in income, while putting in a bare minimum of effort, until they can launch MW5.

The fire sale discounts on Mech Packs and Bays etc are a last effort to wring a little more cash out of their existing assets. Meanwhile, there's a ton of evidence that they're putting very little development effort into MWO...

• very sparse quarterly roadmaps where most stuff is scheduled for "and beyond";
  
• much-delayed features like the Event System;
  
• cancellation of IK after a year of being on every quarterly Road Map;
  
• no new maps for ages, and a mere two on the horizon, still months away;
  
• incomplete/botched delivery of the Civil War patch;
  
• events that run for a month (handily avoiding the need to create new ones weekly);
  
• Russ publicly deferring player input and operational decisions to Chris.

I suspect the few things that are planned for MWO - assuming PGI aren't just lying to us again like they did during the first two years of delay to Community Warfare - will be largely reusable in MW5. Or at least, the 3D assets, UI and game logic will be able to leveraged in the new title.

I believe PGI will unveil MW5, and announce that "the new engine is just so much better we have decided to instead incorporate the current road map for MWO into MW5". They might leave an MWO server running a while longer, but the playerbase will no doubt migrate quickly to MW5.

The sting in all of this for we players is that PGI will expect us to write off everything we spent on MWO, and buy new Mechs for MW5 multiplayer.

Edited by Appogee, 26 August 2017 - 01:27 AM.

[Davegt27]

it will be MW5 beta lol
I don't care I will still buy it

[Savage Wolf]

The Basilisk, on 26 August 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

Yes I could think of all the hillarious wanna be competitive stuff finaly beeing thrown away.
Since PGI admitted they can't even implememnt a simple object collision mechanic without destroying hitreg completely there is no chance they will ever have a solution for othr problems that should be even simpler to solve.
I do not see how this could be seen as an e-sports title with the current hitreg, invisible walls, and graphics problems.

Better focus on an immersive Solaris experience (Arenacrowds, moveable walls, Stables, lots of not ingame things that could be done to improve the game without having to screw with the actuall mechcombat) and the objective thingy they want to implement.

That is true, I did forget about Competitive Play. But I guess it's already there. Not sure what they would want either, but if it's about e-sports there is an even bigger concern to take into account: What is interesting to look at. It's certainly not Skirmish. The whole trading phase and then a quick push is not very interesting to look at. Probably why they choose Conquest because at least it involves a little more movement. But it's without respawns so I don't know.

I cannot think of a good way to make e-sports work in MWO. Just not really spectator friendly. So I couldn't give a good suggestion on how to make one work even if I tried. But at least it's already there?

[Luminis]

Appogee, on 26 August 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

Despite PGI's protestations about 'two development teams', it's crystal clear they are just trying to keep MWO afloat and bringing in income, while putting in a bare minimum of effort, until they can launch MW5.

This is just a very subjective and personal opinion of mine, but did the "development" of MWO really drop that much since they started working on MW5? Call me cynical, but it didn't seem like PGI was making giant leaps in development before MW5 was a thing, either...

Appogee, on 26 August 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

The sting in all of this for we players is that PGI will expect us to write off everything we spent on MWO, and buy new Mechs for MW5 multiplayer.

As I said, I'll be okay with that. Would be the same if MW5 was made by another dev. I just want it to be pay-to-play, maybe with the occasional expansion. Pretty much like MW4.

[Appogee]

Luminis, on 26 August 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

This is just a very subjective and personal opinion of mine, but did the "development" of MWO really drop that much since they started working on MW5? Call me cynical, but it didn't seem like PGI was making giant leaps in development before MW5 was a thing, either...

PGI have alway been slow to develop MWO. They are a small studio, and have always been reluctant to make the investments needed to progress MWO more quickly.

However, development slowed noticeably at the beginning of 2016, when they started work on MW5, ahead of the working Alpha previewed at MechCon in December.

At the beginning of 2016, patches became monthly instead of bi-weekly, roadmaps became quarterly instead of monthly, and there were lots of other indications that they were working on "something else".

Edited by Appogee, 26 August 2017 - 03:33 AM.

[Luminis]

Appogee, on 26 August 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

However, development slowed noticeably at the beginning of 2016, when they started work on MW5, ahead of the working Alpha previewed at MechCon in December.

In hindsight, I might be overestimating the amount of work that went into MWO after PGI started development on MW5. The Skill Tree and the Civil War update were some of the larger advancements in MWO in recent years, so that might be affecting my perception a little.

[Asym]

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

That is true, I did forget about Competitive Play. But I guess it's already there. Not sure what they would want either, but if it's about e-sports there is an even bigger concern to take into account: What is interesting to look at. It's certainly not Skirmish. The whole trading phase and then a quick push is not very interesting to look at. Probably why they choose Conquest because at least it involves a little more movement. But it's without respawns so I don't know.

I cannot think of a good way to make e-sports work in MWO. Just not really spectator friendly. So I couldn't give a good suggestion on how to make one work even if I tried. But at least it's already there?

I can ! Solaris..... Think about a Grand Solaris that is played in real-time, with real gameplay announcers and real awards....

Imagine the real Duncan Fisher actually announcing the Solaris matches as they are played...... Seriously, "that" would sell on the E-Sports level because the fan base would go crazy........ And, Solaris style matches are easier to generate and control...

[Savage Wolf]

Asym, on 26 August 2017 - 05:01 AM, said:

I can ! Solaris..... Think about a Grand Solaris that is played in real-time, with real gameplay announcers and real awards....

Imagine the real Duncan Fisher actually announcing the Solaris matches as they are played...... Seriously, "that" would sell on the E-Sports level because the fan base would go crazy........ And, Solaris style matches are easier to generate and control...

Well it does avoid the boring to watch trading phase and hopefully the brawling phase is longer. But to me it just sounds like too small and short matches to really be interesting. But otherwise you are right about the setting at least. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[JC Daxion]

If it was up to me.


Solaris, For solo and a friend

QP, the place to learn, PUG's only


FW, the main group que

Comp.. Comp group que for people that want to fight the top folks

[Savage Wolf]

JC Daxion, on 26 August 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

If it was up to me.


Solaris, For solo and a friend

QP, the place to learn, PUG's only


FW, the main group que

Comp.. Comp group que for people that want to fight the top folks

How is QP the place to learn when the other queues are so different. And what if you prefer the game modes of QP?

And how can FW be the main group queue when it's built for units. And does that mean that once you are no longer solo, you need to go FW?

This seems arbitrary to me which is t

[Y E O N N E]

Asym, on 25 August 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

Well said. FP is dead IMO. With it goes the storyline of the MW Universe. FP is the "point" of this game. If not, why is there IS and Clan distinctions?

For flavor. That is, and always has been, the only relevant point.