85 replies to this topic

[Canned Beans]

I had no idea your whole mech dies if you lose a torso other than center as IS, I've had that happen as clan and it didn't kill me so I thought it was safe! Why is IS like this?!

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 30 August 2017 - 06:20 PM.
Quote Clean-Up, reference

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Canned Beans, on 28 August 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

I had no idea your whole mech dies if you lose a torso other than center as IS, I've had that happen as clan and it didn't kill me so I thought it was safe! Why is IS like this?!

It comes as heritage from Battletech rules. There, a mech was destroyed if it had 3 engine 'slots' critted (engine segments destroyed). MWO does not have engine crits (because it could make you dead while your internals are still yellow from time to time, and that wouldn't be funny nor fair), but a certain engine - IS XL engine - has exactly 3 engine segments per side torsos, which Do get destroyed along with the torso. Ergo - kills you.

Available engines work as follows:
IS:
STD - standard. Very heavy, no penalties for loosing anything other than the CT, but the weight makes you slow and/or undergunned. Good for some builds, especially if you can't spare any place in STs for engine slots due to the weapons you're carrying (a heavy gauss, 3 AC5s, 4 uac2s fill your torsos totally, so no place for any other engine than STD). also, certain mechs can 'zombie' - like some centurions and some crabs - they can loose arms and torsos and still retain 3 weapon hardpoints in their CT and Head.
LFE - light fusion. ~75% weight of the standard, but it does have 2 engine slots per ST, so you die also for loosing both STs, even if CT is still there. Loosing 1 torso damages the engine so you get speed and heat penalties (-20% and -40% if I remember correctly). Good for any mech that can loose torsos easily, while not providing any mentioned above incentives for running STD
XL - extra light - ~50% weight of the standard, but you die to ST loss. Very useful, especially on lighter mechs, as it leaves most weight for weapons and such, but you do die from ST loss. This is offset for IS with defensive quirks - maaany IS mechs (including your crab) have bonus armor/structure, so you have to do more damage to destroy their torsos in comparison to clan mechs.

Clans have the following engines (omnimech have locked engines, so you can't swap them, just go with what you get:
STD - it's the same engine IS uses. Very old technology. Used sometimes as it allows, for example, to fit 2 clan gauss rifles in one torso
Clan XL - best engine in the game. As light as IS XL, but only 2 engine slots per torso, so you survive 1 torso loss with only penalties to speed and heat. Because of its superiority the structure/armor bonuses to IS mechs were needed. You still die if you loose 2 side torsos, and these are often squishy on clan mechs, so often the best strategy against clan mechs is to quickly shoot off the side they have most guns on, then just finish them by destroying any other torso that is damaged the most.

Also, while speaking about destroing components, you should know how damage transfer works (what happens when you shoot an already destroyed section of a mech):

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 28 August 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Koniving]

Canned Beans, on 28 August 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

I had no idea your whole mech dies if you lose a torso other than center as IS, I've had that happen as clan and it didn't kill me so I thought it was safe! Why is IS like this?!

For IS:
If you have an XL, you can die by side torso.
If you have an LFE, you can die by both STs being destroyed.
If you have a STD engine, you die by CT.

For Clans:
If you have an XL you die by both STs being destroyed.
If you have a STD engine you die by CT.

Basis: This occurs based on the Battletech rule that if you lose 3 engine crits -- you die. IS XL has 3 engine crits in a single side torso, and thus you die if you lose the side torso.
In the source material, this isn't as imbalancing as it sounds as through armor crits, regular crits, etc. can all destroy engines without destroying any side torsos at all.
Here though, well.. yeah. Side note: If you lose a side torso with Clan XL or IS LFE, you...suffer so many penalties including top speed, maximum heat permitted, cooling rates, etc that it's actually sometimes preferable to just die especially as an energy build and often as a missile build. Ballistic builds can pretty much ignore the issue.

[Canned Beans]

So I need to get a light engine inside my mech or a STD, I think I'll go with a standard one.

Edited by Canned Beans, 29 August 2017 - 06:10 PM.

[Canned Beans]

I just keep losing my matches now, I'm not really sure what is going on.

This match we got steamrolled, can anything be learned from this end match cap?

8 losses in a row.

Edited by Canned Beans, 29 August 2017 - 07:31 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Well your damage output is good.

There is no skill matchmaking for group queue, so during prime time it can be difficult.

Edited by Roughneck45, 29 August 2017 - 07:50 PM.

[Canned Beans]

Roughneck45, on 29 August 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Well you damage output is good.

There is no skill matchmaking for group queue, so during prime time it can be difficult.

I really enjoy playing with my friend though, yet it's unregulated? Really?

Another loss, 10 in a row..?

Edited by Canned Beans, 29 August 2017 - 07:50 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Canned Beans, on 29 August 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

I really enjoy playing with my friend though, yet it's unregulated? Really?

Yes.

Teams of smaller groups get a tonnage advantage but there is no ELO matchmaking, so you can run into experienced teams and larger groups that will use coordination to their advantage.

[Canned Beans]

Roughneck45, on 29 August 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yes.

Teams of smaller groups get a tonnage advantage but there is no ELO matchmaking, so you can run into experienced teams and larger groups that will use coordination to their advantage.

So is there no point to group play? It's just going to punish people who want to play with friends?

[Roughneck45]

Canned Beans, on 29 August 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

So is there no point to group play? It's just going to punish people who want to play with friends?

Not necessarily. Sounds more like you are on a bad luck streak.

But if no one is talking on coms or attempting to coordinate with each other its going to be an uphill climb.

You guys could try checking out the public teamspeaks and discords to fill up a group, or look for a unit to join that has similar play times.

[Leone]

Have you tried Community Warfare? When I group up with friends not in my unit, we'll often drop in a small group an we prefer CW over group queue. Granted, CW has it's own issues for new folk, but scouting's a 4v4 brawl fest, so you can drop in in a small group without having to worry about the rest. If it's just the two of ya, then at least you know you're half the team.

The thing you gotta remember about this game is, that on the best match, half the folk in it are gonna die. Chances are, it's even more mechs that'll be wrecked in the fray. Losing is fun, you just gotta find your own thing. Question is, do you feel like you did good? Cuz if so, excellent, figure out what you did right, an do more of that. Figure what you did wrong how you can improve and do so, but don't sweat the losses. They're great learning experiences. For everyone out there having a winning steak, someone's gotta have a losing streak, right now it's you, but things change.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 29 August 2017 - 10:28 PM.

[The Basilisk]

Canned Beans, on 29 August 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

So is there no point to group play? It's just going to punish people who want to play with friends?

Your problem here may be the "just"

The moment it comes to teamwork there MWO isn't "just" anymore but rather where the alpha et omega sits.
Your first step in playing successfull in group matches is to stick together no matter what, focus targets i.e. one talks and calls movements and targets and the others shut up. (later on this will work so automaticaly there is no real concentration nessessary anymore)
Your next step should be talking strategies and loadouts. Having a common agenda makes focus fire and moving together so much easier. (immagine you got a Catapult A1 with 6SRMs very short range...your friend brings an BlackKnight with 5 ERLarge lasers....doh....try to coordinate that)
Last but not least, try to use the tonnage you got as best as possible sice this is your main advantage over larger groups.
The more ppl in group the lower your averange tonnage. 2 may take a hundred ton mech each, 3 can still make the Battlemaster Brothers, 4 can go all heavy and one assault and so on.

Otherwise...well there are streaks of bad luck. If you begin to encounter the same foes over and over just wait 5 mins after your match before you que again.

Edited by The Basilisk, 29 August 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Canned Beans, on 29 August 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

So is there no point to group play? It's just going to punish people who want to play with friends?

No, group queue is not just there to punish people playing with freinds, however as the people playing have deliberately grouped up in advance the matches do tend to be tougher than in solo queue, in MWO nothing is more overpowered than teamwork, for example I have been dropping with the same 3 other people most Monday evenings for 1.5-2 hours since April 2015, so we are pretty good at working together, and win much more often than not, despite the fact that we are all over the place in individual skill, individual skill does not matter if you work well together.

group queue does in fact have matchmaking, but the way it works is it averages the tier for everyone in your group, then tries to put you with and against other groups of simular average tier, however as group queue is less highly populated than solo queue it is less likely you will get a fair match, and group size determins available tonage, a group of 2 can take anywhere between 20 and 100 tons each, while a group of 12 only gets (if I remember correctly) 45-50 tons each, so for a big group to bring heavy Mechs other players have to bring Lights, and with 6 people bringing any assualts start to become a serious compromise in tonage for the rest of the team.


on the other hand Faction play has no skill based matchmaker, all faction play does is put together teams of 12 (or 4 for scouting) as quickly as it can with the available players.

the absolute biggest factor in winning a match in this game is teamwork, a team of low tier players can absolutely destroy 12 high tier individuals on the other side.

if you are loosing in group queue try to comunicate and work with the rest of the team (as opposed to just your group), players in group queue are far more likely to have VOIP and chat enabled, so use those tools to try to work together, if no-one else does so try offering a few sugestions at the start of the match, your "teammates" will not always listen but it is worth trying so take a look at the battlegrid (map, press B to bring it up) and if you think you can see a good point to fight ask people to move to that location,

when you are engaged try calling targets,
in my experiance the best way to call the target is [letter designation, preferably using a word to represent the letter, if you know it use NATO phonetic alpahbet], [mech type], [grid location, again word for letter], [breif sumery of targets condition].
so if you see a Kodiak 'g' in C3, with red center torso internals and no Center Torso armor, the perfect call would be "Golf, Kodiak, Charley 3, Cored CT" however "Grandma Kodiak, Cola 3, ct badly damaged" would also work fine

If in conquest the enemy are past 500 and more than 200 ahead of you with 4-5 of the caps and you are convincingly winning on kills there is a good chance they would be able to drag it out to win by points even if your team kills them all, so in this case I would sugest "enemy are going to win on caps, fast Mechs please split up and cap", or if there is just 1 left "split up and cap, hold all the points, he will have to come to us",
For Escort if the team is concentrating on killing the enemy and the VIP is getting close to extraction "VIP is almost to extraction, we need to kill it now, Golf 7 moving towards Hotel 8"
if you are dead and hopping between cockpits and notice one of your guys is fighting the last enemy but does not have a lock, tell the rest of the team because they may not know where it is , for examlpe "last enemy Hotel 7, Spider".

[Hastur Azargo]

Canned Beans, on 29 August 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

So I need to get a light engine inside my mech or a STD, I think I'll go with a standard one.

Hey there, and welcome to MWO! As you can see, our community is one of the most mature communities out there. We got people like Kon and Taro that can and will dedicate time to write detailed answers to every one of your questions, and I even kinda feel proud when I see a simple newcomer question topic grow to 3 pages with multiple vets swinging in to give their perspectives. I know for a fact that this is better than what you'd see in forums for other games.

Now, about engines. Here's my perspective, and it has been so for over four years I've spent with this game. Your statement is true if you really want survivability under fire, but I personally find that if you're taking fire, then you've already done something wrong. This is why I hate assault mechs, btw. So, I put XLs on everything less than 90 tons, and maybe on those 90+ tonners too sometimes. Some mechs and some builds do favor going LFE, and if you really want something like dual Heavy Gauss build (or any other that fills up your side-torso utterly and completely) then you have to go STD. Otherwise I always prefer more weapons with more speed. The takeaway here is that - the choice is up to your playstyle. To me a 50-tonner without a big XL is a waste of potential, because instead of going fast and bringing more firepower to places where enemies don't expect you and blowing something up from behind with great DPS and then still having enough speed to run away, you basically build your mech around getting shot and staying alive with reduced firepower, which wasn't great to begin with because of STD tonnage restrictions. I know I prefer initiative at a cost of more risk, but well, that's just me.

A couple of more things. While I love Hunchies, I think they're currently a bit too slow, squishy and unwieldy to be good. I mean you can play carefully, yes, but those pesky clanners make their builds around huge laser alphas (also known as laservomit), so walking into a Hellbringer or Ebon Jag that unloads all of his lasers into your slow 50-tonner is gonna ruin your day. Oh but they sure can't do that if you're in a Bushwacker which has great additional armor from quirks, and thus the ability to stick to their victim until it's dead. Clanners run hot, so they'll start overheating after a couple of alphas, and then they're all yours.

Oh and on LRMs - those usually don't pair well with any other "primary" weapons. You take LRMs when you're doing a dedicated LRM build, you know, with TAG laser and Beagle Probe and medium lasers for backup and lots of LRMs with lots of ammo. Hell, I know I indulged in building a Stalker with an XL260 and 4 x LRM15s with Artemis. It runs as hot as a boiling pot in hell intended for people committing such unholiness, and you're deader than a steak if anything gets close to you, but by God, if your team can hold the first line, you can make the sky come crashing down onto enemy team. No kidding, you'll sometimes win (or lose) simply because your team had more (or less) LRM mechs and the match was decided even before the plain sight brawl started. It's okay, sometimes you can't do anything about it. I've had very long loss streaks of my own.

And to cap it off, I gotta say you're doing pretty well damage-wise. If you're getting 600+ damage in a mech without skills and much piloting experience with this particular variant, you know you found a mech you can make some great things with. Keep playing and enjoy the game!

[Canned Beans]

Thank you for the responses, I would quote and -snip- to respond individually but a lot that was said was repeated but it was all good information anyway.

I will attempt to find more people to play with, it's very difficult as most of my friends are not interested in a slowish tactical shooter, so I will need to find new people to play with which is extremely difficult for me as the times I am online are kinda' weird and as such creates problems for getting together with people. Also I might be shy.

I am glad group que has a skill rating, at least. What's really weird is I am doing very well in faction warfare with my friend, yet in quick play we get stomped constantly, it's really disheartening to realize your ques that you do well in take 10-20 minutes a pop vs a few minutes for quickplay. Play more and lose, or play much less but win?

Aaah, and about my crab build, I went with a standard engine. I only go 87 but I am very tanky, I honestly just want a lot of room to make mistakes. Both me and my bud play ER-Laser sniper like mechs but we end up getting around the middle of the front line more often than not, at least we can hit everything there! His lasers go a lot farther than mine, he uses Clan I use IS (kinda' sucks when faction play comes I use trail clan mechs). It works fine though.

As for spending money on the game, I looked more into it and the colors and stuff. Cosmetics are less expensive than I thought but a big problem is still how much the game will cost if I get into it. A single hero mech runs 35 at the cheapest, for one mech. What if I want too? 70 dollars, already over the price of a AAA game and I cannot justify that cost.

https://fineleatherj...monkeyinflation Never pay more than 20 bux for a computer game, oh wait I meant 36 bux and 67 cents.

Edited by Canned Beans, 30 August 2017 - 09:14 PM.

[Gagis]

Hero mechs are indeed so expensive that you probably shouldn't buy them unless they are in hefty discount, which they are once every few months. They are still probably the best use for your MC whenever they are though.

I have a bit of a thing for the Crabs, so I'd like to share my Crab loadout I use in my long range dropdeck for FP
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fdff494dfd02519
https://kitlaan.gitl...da63e05fbc64dc0

It runs a little hot but most of the time you can just peek with the right hand side and fire just the ERLL's. The ERML's are a nice addition if you get into trouble and need to expose your entire mech, since the combined alpha strike is rather impressive. They are also nice to have if you are in a position where you can't really corner peek on the right side.

[Keltan]

$35 for one hero mech? Have you tried the mech bundles? They are found in Store -> Gift Shop -> 'Mech Bundles. They have three mechs and mech bays, and all include a hero variant. They come with 30 days premium time. Most are under $30, and many are under $25. All are IS mechs.

The Locust pack is interesting. The mech itself is difficult to pilot well, but the pack is only $13, and you get the 30 days premium time. Supposedly you can buy it as many times as you want, sell the extra mechs and equipment for C-bills, but still get the premium time and 3 mech bays. I've only bought it once though.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Keltan, on 30 August 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

(...)
The Locust pack is interesting. The mech itself is difficult to pilot well, but the pack is only $13, and you get the 30 days premium time. (...)

Well, if he says he likes a lot of room to make mistakes, then the locusts are the last mechs he should think about using.

Canned -> Remember that you WILL get your hand on some cosmetics sooner or later, without paying. From events. Maybe not exactly the ones you would like the most, but enough to put those mechs into style.
I.e. the event from the beginning of August had the following rewards:
1 faction-related cockpit item (choose 1 of 10)
2. another faction related cockpit item (choose 1 of other 10)
3. faction-related warhorn (choose 1 of 10)
4. faction decal (choose 1 of 10)
5. faction colour (choose 1 of about 30)
All you needed was gathering match score in faction play.

Yes, events that generous don't happen all the time, but they do happen.

Hero mechs - unless gathering c-bill is a pain for you (doesn't seems so with your scores), or you bump into something that seems sooooooooo cooooooooooooool, you should really leave them out for later. You got tons of F2P mechs to try out and experience, why bothering now about those few you would need to pay for? Also, without better experience in the game you risk paying hard money for a machine you won't find fun to run in the end. Not worth it.

Also, later you will have some MC gathered from events and FP, so you will be able to buy a hero with that.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 30 August 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Ok, it seems that you have got tons of good advice from players that I know help people.

So I will just go for the Economy.

• Buy MC when on sale or get 30,000 for the price of 25,000 or $100. This can last forever it seems some times.
  
• some events allow you to earn MC and it adds up over time, especially if you purchase things at 50% off.
  
• buy things when on sale for 50%, 35% or at least 30% off. (be very patient.) (I got an Atlas hero for 3250 instead of 7500) Only one hero mech did I buy for the full price (Hunchback grid Iron with the Cheerleader) and I wanted that dam cheerleader.
  
• There are a few colors for C-bills I think 4 or 5. You can get some during events or through packages you can buy for real $'s.
  
• If there is an event, look at the rewards and if it something you want go for it.
  
• Buy Mech bays when you can on sale for 50% off in bulk or earn free ones for events.
  
• various mech packs purchased with the early purchase for more rewards. Even after some are well priced others not so much. You get colors decals, cockpit items, may be camo/vanity patterns and other things like c-bills and premium time.
  
• Champion mech, well I have got a bunch of them for free as rewards during events. Have not purchased one, but some packages includes a champion mech (30% XP increase)
  
• Premium time. well it comes as part of certain packages or early rewards for other packages. So I have not purchased premium time ever or I got it as a reward. (Certain holidays or event rewards also give you premium time.) Hero or other special mechs give you 30% on C-bills so they are the poor mans premium time, but also increase the benefit to 80% when you have it.

As for how much you will spend. Think on how much you will not play other games first. Then be frugal as hell, if you buy MC with 20% more and purchase something at 50% off only, that is like 60,000 MC for $100. The boarshead atlas would cost $12.50, $6.25 for a 50 ton hero or $2.50 for the Pirates Bane Locust.

I do not expect everyone to wait for sales like that, but it does pay off. Now if you want a mech and like it, get it and have fun.

The hole point of playing this game is not getting to tier 1 or getting on leader boards, it is to have fun.

[JC Daxion]

buy some MC, like 15 or 30 bucks, save it for a hero sale= Profit

i bought a jester years ago.. the bonus c-bills on that mech purchased a good 1/3 of my 100 mechs. I have a lotta heroes, but i typically buy lights and mediums which are cheaper. Over the years i spent a little over 125 bucks, and it got me about 8+ Heroes and paint/camo and bays, to over 100 mechs.

though, for a soild deal, the resistance II pack, has wolfhound, crab, black knight and mauler, + 4 +c-bill mechs, and premium paint,, along with faction camo for all 12 mechs. Its an online game, they cost a bit more than your typical single player for the most part.

for as many hours as i've played i am talking pennies an hour. (i did finally pony up more cash last year and bought 2 4 mech packs, at the cost of 200 dollars.. So 4+ years i am at a little over 300 dollars, and gotta me 3k hours easy.

Packs are on sale for like 20-25% off, and that top tier restaince 2 package will get you at least 2 loyalty mechs which have a +30% c-bill boost. These help a ton with reducing the grind..



But it's your money, so spend it how you see fit. Typically i wait years to buy games 5-10 bucks), but this is one that i do spend a little cash every year on.. Its all about how much enjoyment you can get for your buck IMO.