17 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

This post is simply to illustrate some good options to take in CW Scouting Mode. These options are not exhaustive, but show several solid performing options to bring to the fight. It would be impossible for me to cover all possible configurations, but all of these have proven potent in my experience.

Building a mech for Scouting Mode, you need to take a couple considerations:

• There is no solid front line preventing a brawl from happening.
  
• If a brawl happens, everyone on the team needs to share their armor and support their allies.
  
• Close range weapon systems such as (U)AC20, SPLas, (ER)SLas, and (A)SRM will provide the greatest close range punch in the fight.
  
• Massed machine guns and/or SSRM and/or ATM are not the worst idea, but they are far from ideal.
  
• Any weapons beyond close ranged systems, especially LRMs, are more often than not detrimental to the team.
  
• Ammunition supplies must last long enough to dispatch at least two mechs (but I have had to carry enough times that I carry enough for more than 4 mechs worth).

Having said that, here are my top three scouting mechs for a Clan pilot:


Huntsman:
I call this one the Arbitrator. It uses the Pakhet in order to minimize the spread of the torso SRM arrays. You can essentially two shot a leg, or even a torso of your choice from the front if the enemy pilot is silly enough to stand still. An Active Probe is there to counteract enemy ECM, as well as speed up target info gathering to better detect weak points in the enemy mechs' armor. The TCMKII is there because the tonnage could not be filled up, otherwise. However, it does boost the range of the ERSLas a bit, as well as increases crit chance ever so slightly.

As for why ERSLas instead of more SRMs? Hit detection, and precision shots. Sometimes HSR borks up, and a pure splat build will do terribly. The lasers give you an option in these cases. It is also useful for pruning limbs off of smaller mechs. Further, this configuration has zero ghost heat, so there is no need to juggle weapon groups, unlike the octo-splat configurations.

Being SRM based, it is somewhat weak against mechs that have more compressed hitboxes or present smaller target profiles, as SRM will spread and, as a result, deal less significant damage to any one specific component.

Additional Note:
I am aware Hunchback IIC are popular in scouting. They are solid options, however their side torsos are extremely easy to isolate compared to the Huntsman. You are far more likely to lose your arms in a Huntsman before your side torsos, whereas the HBK-IIC is likely to just have a side ripped clean off. From a survivability standpoint, therefore, the HMN pulls ahead. That said, most organized groups will aim for legs, regardless of the mech you run.

Secondary Additional Note:
A similar build to the Pakhet configuration above can be achieved with C-Bill pods. This places the 4x ASRM6 in the arms and the ERSLas in the torsos. However, given convergence issues, and that Huntsman arms are the first things to go, I would not recommend it too strongly. With C-Bill pods, you are better off with a 6x ASRM6 Huntsman instead, with 2/arm and 1/side torso.

BattleROM Footage:

Spoiler

Shadow Cat:
This one is Judicator. Designed to be a lighter, faster, more nimble variation of my huntsman, it is an absolute joy to pilot. It can be built on pure C-Bill pods, but I run it on the Mishipeshu only for the extra C-Bills and sweet paint job. LAP is there for passive ECM countering. It has surprisingly good range on the jam, as well, actually. Useful when you need to tag a light for the team, but they are under ECM. Suddenly, that is not an issue anymore.

Just like the Arbitrator, being SRM based, it is somewhat weak against mechs that have more compressed hitboxes or present smaller target profiles, as SRM will spread and, as a result, deal less significant damage to any one specific component.

Additional note: You can safely remove half a ton of ammo and the LAP to add one more DHS if you find it runs too hot for you. I take the extra ammo specifically for 12v12 multi-usability purposes. It provides just enough longevity to make it last through most of a typical game. By the time your ammo runs dry, you've dealt gobs of damage, anyways.

BattleROM footage:

Spoiler

Nova: (Keep the Lower Arm actuators - Smurfylink deletes them)
This one is an old but reliable configuration. The Prime pods actually provide a sizable buff to ER laser heat generation. While the option is there to go to 12 ERSLas, instead, I rather the 10 as you can alphastrike once without overheating. It provides you with an "oh crap" option, or a swift termination if the enemy presents a weak point to you. The TC1 can just as easily be replaced with an Active Probe to passively disable enemy ECM, but the extra crit chance is nice to have.

Unlike the prior two mechs, this is a laser based configuration. This means that you can more easily surgically remove specific parts, however it has both a burn duration (meaning you cannot as easily shoot and twist away damage), as well as a higher heat generation (making it even weaker to flamers).

BattleROM footage:

Spoiler

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 29 August 2017 - 06:57 PM.

[Groundpound Devalis]

You Left out 2 Hunchback 2c's which fill in as equals or solid subs to the Scat and Nova. Actually they rival all three chassis... but the Pahket.
A 8 SMPLS
B 4 SRM6/arty and either 2 HMed or 2MPL

Edited by Groundpound Devalis, 27 August 2017 - 05:36 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Groundpound Devalis, on 27 August 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

You Left out 2 Hunchback 2c's which fill in as equals or solid subs to the Scat and Nova.
A 8 SMPLS
B 4 SRM6/arty and either 2 HMed or 2MPL

Like I said. It is not an exhaustive list. They make good options, but I wouldn't say they're the best. For example, the SPLas HBK is less survivable than the Nova, and lacks the ER laser quirks, while the B is less survivable relative to the HMN, as I stated in the OP. If you want to post up their builds, and the logic behind the build design, please go for it.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 August 2017 - 05:22 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Edited the OP. Slight refinement on the Shadow Cat. Judicator MK III variation loses one DHS in favor for half a ton more armor - enough to max the legs and nearly fill the arms out - as well as a Light Active Probe. I also added a shorter demonstration video for it.

The thing is a beast, though. Had I actually tried for the leaderboards for the Mishipeshu, I am sure I would have gotten first place before it closed. I was not even taking things seriously, only played in public drop with it for about 4 hours, total, and wound up at rank 4 before the challenge ended without even trying. Scary, scary little Shadow Kitty!

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 29 August 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[Brethren]

Your posts are refreshingly objetive to read. I want to thank you for that beforehand.

After watching your video now I really want to try that SHC-MI build... but I don't have the mech.

I also wanted to add a favourite, though largely underestimated, mech - the Ice Ferret.

The IFR has a good amount of structure quirks and is quite tough for a 45 tonner. Plus it has speed to get out of a bad situation or into a good position. And if everything goes south you can just take off and leave (only at Gather Intel!) after the motto "Outgun what you cannot outrun. Outrun what you cannot outgun."

Plus the new IFR models brought ECM and an additional energy hardpoint to the table.
Its 'lack' of armament makes the Ferret pretty cool running in combat which is very handy in scouting as well.

[Gagis]

I like your style.

I'd like to mention an alternative to the SRM+Lasers and 8SRM6 splat Pakhets: 4 SRM6+A and 4 ATM3. The ATM spread is much worse than SRM spread, but it still allows for a ghost-heat-less alternative to the full splat version and keeps the SRM's in the torsos with Artemis and a nice convergence. 72 point alpha with no ghost heat is nothing to scoff at, and if you get REALLY lucky, you might get it up to 84 points. Just don't put your trust in the ATMs' third point of damage.

Also, isn't the Shadow Cat a little fragile for brawling, or does the added mobility balance it out?

[Pariah Devalis]

Brethren, on 31 August 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Your posts are refreshingly objetive to read. I want to thank you for that beforehand.

After watching your video now I really want to try that SHC-MI build... but I don't have the mech.

I also wanted to add a favourite, though largely underestimated, mech - the Ice Ferret.

The IFR has a good amount of structure quirks and is quite tough for a 45 tonner. Plus it has speed to get out of a bad situation or into a good position. And if everything goes south you can just take off and leave (only at Gather Intel!) after the motto "Outgun what you cannot outrun. Outrun what you cannot outgun."

Plus the new IFR models brought ECM and an additional energy hardpoint to the table.
Its 'lack' of armament makes the Ferret pretty cool running in combat which is very handy in scouting as well.

Ice Ferret indeed can do some work. A surprisingly tanky mech. Used to run a 4x SRM4 2x ERSLas IFR, prior to the hero. No massive up front damage, but the sustainable damage output and the durability of the mech synched pretty well. As for the SHC build, it doesn't require the MI. You can build it with pure C-Bill pods. It is not as if I am utilizing any specific set of 8 quirks, anyways. Glad you enjoyed the read, though!

Gagis, on 31 August 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

I like your style.

I'd like to mention an alternative to the SRM+Lasers and 8SRM6 splat Pakhets: 4 SRM6+A and 4 ATM3. The ATM spread is much worse than SRM spread, but it still allows for a ghost-heat-less alternative to the full splat version and keeps the SRM's in the torsos with Artemis and a nice convergence. 72 point alpha with no ghost heat is nothing to scoff at, and if you get REALLY lucky, you might get it up to 84 points. Just don't put your trust in the ATMs' third point of damage.

Also, isn't the Shadow Cat a little fragile for brawling, or does the added mobility balance it out?

Interesting build. I'm not sure I'd personally want to devote tonnage to a weapon system that I cannot be reliant upon, but it certainly sounds interesting. Definitely unique. As for the fragility of the 'cat, it is less about taking hits and more about not being where they shoot. Maximizing your use of MASC to change directions, slam on the brakes, and randomly accelerate, coupled with the jump jets lets you hit from strange directions, turn on a time, and throw aim off. Also lets you get in back shots, here and there. I also found that a scouting deck with one or two of these Shadow Cats has a lot easier time dealing with dropship rushing IS players, if only because the mech can keep a bead on a locust and keep up with Oxides - or at the least extend the time in range against enemy light mechs.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 31 August 2017 - 04:43 AM.

[panzer1b]

I know im one of the outliers but ive actually had the most luck running 2 LPLs 3 ERMLs on my hunch2c-a. I may not be able to brawl, but nothing is more satisfying then coring out 2 people before the combat even starts, and noone actually expects the thing either. In 4v4, loosing but 1 mech (or in most cases having 1-2 mechs neutered and opened up) before the battle even starts is pretty much game over unless ur going for cap win or something that doesnt involve kills. Thats why i run mid range mechs with LPLs (burn time is crutial in scouting since most of your targets will be small and fast and you will not have the time to get more then ~1s of burn time on target). Other then that, yeah you can run SRMs or some other meta scouting builds, but i still stand by my mid range laser vomit as the best thing to take on anything but very hot maps like terra therma or the desert one.

[Black Ivan]

Thank you for this topic. I'm just started looking for a CW scouting Shadow Cat buildt

[Pariah Devalis]

Black Ivan, on 04 September 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

Thank you for this topic. I'm just started looking for a CW scouting Shadow Cat buildt

You're welcome. Just be sure to utilize that MASC. While the Nova is probably the easiest of the three I listed to brawl with, the Shadow Cat is probably the hardest. It is an unforgiving mistress. She is not into being abused; only into doing the abusing!

[Black Ivan]

I noticed it on teh Shadowcat. I use it with the 4 ASRM6+ 2 heavy small lasers and I have to take care on positioning etc

[Lily from animove]

No IFR? thats sooo sad. IFR is one of the best mechs for scouting on clanside.

haven't done much scouting after new tech (none at all) but the 5 SPL IFR sould still work fine)

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 September 2017 - 05:26 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Lily from animove, on 12 September 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

No IFR? thats sooo sad. IFR is one of the best mechs for scouting on clanside.

haven't done much scouting after new tech (none at all) but the 5 SPL IFR sould still work fine)

SPLas nerf hurt it bad. You can make due with 4x MPlas, but, really... I rather take any other mech.

[Lily from animove]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 September 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

SPLas nerf hurt it bad. You can make due with 4x MPlas, but, really... I rather take any other mech.

mpl's are still worse because less heat efficient and higher beam durations.

[Pariah Devalis]

Lily from animove, on 26 September 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

mpl's are still worse because less heat efficient and higher beam durations.

Disagree. SPlas do less damage at half the range of ERSLas. You might as well do double the damage at three times the range with MPLas. They run warmer, sure, but at least you can inflict damage. Or go with ERSLas instead, but it still feels a little anemic, and is def under armed vs other clan mediums in that weight bracket such as a Splat-Cat.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 October 2017 - 07:18 AM.

[panzer1b]

cSPLs are as good as dead, so regardless of what build you are trying to run you should stick to other laser types. cMPLs are not that bad, albeit i only use them on some niche super agile mechs like the linebacker or crow since you need to have the ability to get in to range reliably and also get out of a bad situation.

As for scouting, the more i play it, the more i prefer to bring a hunch2c-a with 6 ERML and 1LPL. Its got enough alfa strike to 1 shot a good deal of lights with a solid burn to their ST, its got enough range to kill/neuter 1-2 mechs before the fight even begins, and its got enough sustained DPS and protection to not die horribly the second a brawler looks at you the wrong way. Yeah its anti-meta, but that thing just murders brawlers so well (with a close second place going to the MPL fridge or huntsman).

[The Schwartz]

Been on the recieving side of the HBK IIC's with lbx 20's 2x mpl's.. seems to do well at removing legs on my kintaro and centurian.
Lbx's drop their damage a bit slower(range wise) than standard ac's but, i imagine they bring cool shots quite often.

Edited by The Schwartz, 16 October 2017 - 09:41 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Just a note:

I've seen a resurgence of people calling "Shadow Cats bad in scouting."

Ahem....




No. No they are not. Not if you build it right, and play to the mech's strengths.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 October 2017 - 11:16 AM.