37 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Dimento Graven, on 29 August 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

The issue is that the AC10 is so 'stackable' with other weapons. It's got a good 'punch' and stacking other weapons with it, it adds up quick. Unlike the AC20 and gauss where a LOT of weight and space is taken by ONE weapon system, and unlike AC2 or AC5 where even though smaller and lighter weight have a significantly smaller "hit"...

You buff AC10 just a tiny bit too much and with its stacking potential it becomes a HUGE balance issue.

Can you give some examples?
Only use I have for AC10s is on a Panther 10p (because wth), and an IV-4 (because cooldown). Once upon a time I ran a 2AC10, 4ML K2 or Jagger build, but no longer as there are better builds for both, as well as a 3AC10 Illya, but it is too slow and fragile and I can switch out 3UAC5s and 3ERML and a LFE285. But I would sure like to have some ideas for decent AC10 builds cuz I like variety and I am literally down to just 2 mechs were they still feel good on.

[Khobai]

Quote

Light Gauss would still be bad with this, just sayin.

Its still a massive improvement over how it is now. And no light gauss should not do more dps than standard gauss. Thats like saying an AC2 should do more dps than an AC10.

Its just a first step towards balancing it anyway. Its called incremental balance.

Its where I would set light gauss initially just to see how it works and to help decide exactly what it needs at that point. Rome wasnt built in a day. You cant perfectly balance all weapons in one balance pass.

Edited by Khobai, 29 August 2017 - 08:57 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 29 August 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Its still a massive improvement over how it is now.

I wouldn't say massive. It would be an improvement sure, but that's not saying much given how bad the weapon is currently.

Khobai, on 29 August 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Its just a first step towards balancing it anyway. Its called incremental balance.

You what you could do that would be incremental as well? Just bump up the damage per shot without altering anything else. There is no need to increase the cooldown as well.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 August 2017 - 09:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 29 August 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

And no light gauss should not do more dps than standard gauss. Thats like saying an AC2 should do more dps than an AC10.

Where did I say it should have AS high of DPS as the Gauss? No I said it should have a closer DPS to that of the Gauss. Notice the difference between the AC2 and AC5 DPS? It is 2/9th (2.77777 vs 3, in other words the AC2 has 93% the DPS of an AC5) despite the AC2 being 25% lighter. Wanna know the difference between the Lt Gauss and normal Gauss despite the Light Gauss being 20% lighter? The Light Gauss has only 72% the DPS of the standard Gauss, despite the differences in tonnages being less stark than the AC5 vs the AC2 and the AC2 having much better velocity compared to the AC5. In other words, its no wonder the Light Gauss is so bad, it sacrifices a lot for being lighter and having slightly longer range compared to something like the AC2.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 August 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[FLG 01]

The 8 DMG of the LGR is considered low even in TT - in TT, with half the armour values and many Mechs which are nowhere near fully armoured. In MWO, such a weapon must fail and it does. I tried many things and nothing really worked well.

I am not necessarily advocating a damage increase, but the LGR needs help. A lot. I definitely agree with increased velocity and ammo per ton, also with decreased charge-up time. But it still needs more...

...perhaps one could remove the ghost heat when fired with PPCs?

[Daurock]

FLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

The 8 DMG of the LGR is considered low even in TT - in TT, with half the armour values and many Mechs which are nowhere near fully armoured. In MWO, such a weapon must fail and it does. I tried many things and nothing really worked well.

I am not necessarily advocating a damage increase, but the LGR needs help. A lot. I definitely agree with increased velocity and ammo per ton, also with decreased charge-up time. But it still needs more...

...perhaps one could remove the ghost heat when fired with PPCs?

Actually, pulling it from the Ghost heat table is an idea I can get behind, at least for the Lt. Gauss. It keeps the Lt. Gauss less impressive than an AC10 from a basic DPS and useablity standpoint, yet gives it a reason to be in the game. (I.E. to link up with PPCs for big time PPFLD, at a heavy tonnage to damage cost.) I really don't want to see the LtG Get 10 dmg, due to the fact that it then becomes a better AC10 with a wind-up, so this seems like a much better solution.

[Reno Blade]

My opinion can be seen here (see also signature):
https://mwomercs.com...ng-3060-weapons


Gauss 15dmg, 3.5s cd, 1.5s charge, 2.0s charge hold, 3heat (+2)
Light Gauss 10dmg(+2), 3.0s cd, 0.75s charge, 1.5s charge hold, 2heat (+1)
Heavy Gauss 25dmg, 4.0s cd, 2.0s charge, 2.5s charge hold, 4heat (+3)

you can also notice the better DPH for AC10 classes

Edited by Reno Blade, 29 August 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Reno Blade, on 29 August 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yeah, I stopped looking at this the moment I saw you not only nerfed the iAC5 DPS but also gave it multiple projectiles, just *facepalm*

[Alex Morgaine]

How about light Gauss keeps its current stats but... Cooldown set to 0 seconds, i.e. for and charge as fast as u you want. 8 damage wouldn't bee to bad then.

[Reno Blade]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 August 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Yeah, I stopped looking at this the moment I saw you not only nerfed the iAC5 DPS but also gave it multiple projectiles, just *facepalm*

Yes, I always voted for burst fire and I still do.
If all weapons are harder to deal full damage, ACs are included.
Would you take a Large Laser with 2.0 duration (exaggerated) if you could take a AC10 with a single bullet?

I know the Clans use Gauss, because they suck at using UAC burst, but fighting with cUACs is much more thrilling than trading insta-hit dual Gauss shots.

[Y E O N N E]

Alex Morgaine, on 29 August 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

How about light Gauss keeps its current stats but... Cooldown set to 0 seconds, i.e. for and charge as fast as u you want. 8 damage wouldn't bee to bad then.

But if LGauss is full-on DPS, then what are AC/2 and UAC/2 for? Seems out of character for the weapon.

That's also 16 DPS per gun. Lol.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Reno Blade, on 29 August 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

If all weapons are harder to deal full damage, ACs are included.
Would you take a Large Laser with 2.0 duration (exaggerated) if you could take a AC10 with a single bullet?

So why exactly do you want this game to be more unfun? As Yeonne pointed out, there has been a point in MWO history where IS vs Clan was not only decently balanced at a high level, but dakka, laser vomit, and poptarts actually coexisted fairly well which is basically proof that you don't need to make weapons as a whole more unfun to use and extend exposure time to balance the game.

Not to mention the fact that you sort of ruin the SINGLE advantage iACs have over their UAC counterparts (which mind you, isn't enough to stop them from being inferior at the moment). Higher burst potential for the same DPS and burst projectilve count? One of the easiest decisions right there.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 August 2017 - 11:16 AM.

[Kitty Bacon]

One nice way they could fix light gauss is remove its charge time, decrease its CD a little, keep its ghost heat with PPC and its fire 2 at a time and make it a fast firing gauss with no charge, pretty much. Would discourage people from trying to run the PPC/Gauss again since the ghost heat while encouraging lighter mechs to carry it since it fires faster with no charge time. Plus make its range a little further (like, 100-200m further) and Make the overall DPS, per ton of ammo, comparable to the normal gauss but at 80% of its DPS per ton of ammo.

Edited by Kitty Bacon, 29 August 2017 - 11:18 AM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Kittys idea could work too

[Nema Nabojiv]

Alex Morgaine, on 29 August 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

Kittys idea could work too

Vote for it!

[Kitty Bacon]

Nema Nabojiv, on 29 August 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

Vote for it!

I would vote for that, but the ISgauss, C-Gauss and H-Gauss all justify having their charge time.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kitty Bacon, on 29 August 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

while encouraging lighter mechs to carry it since it fires faster with no charge time.

This doesn't encourage lighter mechs to carry it, this just makes it more usable on the mechs that can reliably boat enough of it. This just makes it like a bigger and cooler AC2/UAC2 though so what exactly is the point in making it more bland?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 August 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

A Gauss without a charge-up is not a Gauss, it's an AC/8/15/25. A complete and total snooze.