61 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

All recent or future game design changes involves mechanics to drain our cbills.
1. skilltree = gigantic cbill sink
2. Stupid Consumable meta = cbill sink
3. 8v8 QP = less cbills for your game time
4. ...and so on and on

I get it that they try to sell premium time but my motivation to play the game drops with every new mechanic that forces me to grind more cbills. The more I am forced to grind the more I lose my fun to just play the game. So why all this forced cbill drain all of a sudden?

[Smites]

In the hope that you'll buy MC to purchase mechs, or C-Bills to buy equipment and consumables.

Which raises an interesting question. Why can't I buy an engine for MC?

[Metus regem]

Tiewolf, on 29 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

All recent or future game design changes involves mechanics to drain our cbills.
1. skilltree = gigantic cbill sink
2. Stupid Consumable meta = cbill sink
3. 8v8 QP = less cbills for your game time
4. ...and so on and on

I get it that they try to sell premium time but my motivation to play the game drops with every new mechanic that forces me to grind more cbills. The more I am forced to grind the more I lose my fun to just play the game. So why all this forced cbill drain all of a sudden?

1) Skill Tree is actually good, it gives more diversity in your mechs.
2) Not PGI's fault, fault of idiots that need a crutch
3) This is actually good for the health of the game, quicker wait times, better match quality.
4) Please list actual wine vintage for more clarification.


The C-bill sinks that are in, are to help deal with the fact that there are players that are sitting on billions of C-bills with nothing to spend it on.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Smites, on 29 August 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

In the hope that you'll buy MC to purchase mechs, or C-Bills to buy equipment and consumables.

Which raises an interesting question. Why can't I buy an engine for MC?

You can. nicely wrapped in mech.

[Jun Watarase]

Tiewolf, on 29 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

All recent or future game design changes involves mechanics to drain our cbills.
1. skilltree = gigantic cbill sink
2. Stupid Consumable meta = cbill sink
3. 8v8 QP = less cbills for your game time
4. ...and so on and on

I get it that they try to sell premium time but my motivation to play the game drops with every new mechanic that forces me to grind more cbills. The more I am forced to grind the more I lose my fun to just play the game. So why all this forced cbill drain all of a sudden?

The skill tree is much cheaper than buying and mastering 3 different mechs...

Once you get a few mechs kitted out and mastered you have pretty much nothing to spend c-bills on.

[Mole]

Did I just seriously see someone refer to consumables as a "crutch"? Come on, seriously. The constant air strikes are annoying as **** but not much else.

[Metus regem]

Mole, on 29 August 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Did I just seriously see someone refer to consumables as a "crutch"? Come on, seriously. The constant air strikes are annoying as **** but not much else.

Yes I called them a crutch, as in I see people unable to play with out them. Me I don't care either way, as I hardly ever take damage from strikes... I'm constantly on the look out for red smoke... kind of a requirement for a light and medium mech pilot.

[Appogee]

It's because PGI believes that, if you don't have enough CBills on hand to buy new 'free' Mechs you will be more likely to spend actual dollars buying Mech Packs.

[KodiakGW]

Appogee, on 29 August 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's because PGI believes that, if you don't have enough CBills on hand to buy new 'free' Mechs you will be more likely to spend actual dollars buying Mech Packs.

Especially when they nerf the existing ones just before releasing the new ones.

Remember when the Kodiak had 80 degree torso twist? Pepperidge Farms remembers...
https://mwomercs.com...ase-2-days-left

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

1) Skill Tree is actually good, it gives more diversity in your mechs.

And how is that related to it requiring C-Bills now?

Metus regem, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

2) Not PGI's fault, fault of idiots that need a crutch

It was PGI's choice to add them.

Metus regem, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

3) This is actually good for the health of the game, quicker wait times, better match quality.

Yeah, but PGI will probably "forget" the fact that they nerfed C-Bills and XP when they made 12v12 the norm. I would not be surprised at all if they didn't revert to the old income rates that 8v8 used to have.

Metus regem, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

The C-bill sinks that are in, are to help deal with the fact that there are players that are sitting on billions of C-bills with nothing to spend it on.

People who play the game hours every day for several years and/or use premium time/heroes to boost their income are obviously going to have a stockpile unless they constantly buy new mechs. No duh. That's the whole point of buying premium stuff and/or not buying C-Bill things. This isn't some kind of "problem" that needs solving.

[Bigbacon]

8v8 isn't needed!!!! it will be less fun!

[Lykaon]

Appogee, on 29 August 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's because PGI believes that, if you don't have enough CBills on hand to buy new 'free' Mechs you will be more likely to spend actual dollars buying Mech Packs.

This is partly true but the primary reason is players playing MWo = content for other players playing MWo.

The game needs to be designed to keep players engaged so they are available to be content for other players to shoot at.

Without 24 players we don't get a match launched after all.

[Brain Cancer]

Why do they want your C-bills?

Because people find impulse buys easier to swallow if they produce immediate positive reinforcement.

Lots of folks will load up and push redsmoke button because explosions and biiiiiig damage! Plus the occasional kill of course. Frequently from safety.

The same Cbill sink in repair and rearm would cause a riot now.


Instead, it's candy to hide the bitter taste of longer grinds.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 29 August 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Metus regem, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

The C-bill sinks that are in, are to help deal with the fact that there are players that are sitting on billions of C-bills with nothing to spend it on.

Great!!! But I am not one of those players. In fact I can't even afford to skill up all my mechs and have many, many other mechs I would like to purchase and try out which would of course force me to spend MC on Mech Bays but apparently that isn't enough incentive. Also I tend to buy most of the mechpacks, at least the standard editions and STILL don't have enough C-bills to do the things I want to do.

Also we have to ask why people have billions of C-bills.

A. Because they have been playing the same 5 mechs for 5 years now, never buying a new mech.
B. They buy every and all mechs cash and are left with nothing to spend C-bills on aside from basic outfitting and consumables.
C. They play hundreds of matches each and every month, basically doing nothing but playing MWO.

Here is the thing though, those aren't your average player. Hell I am not your average player and as I said I don't have enough C-bills. Let me see, I....

1. Buy 50% or more of the standard mech packs.
2. Often upgrade and buy the Hero.
3. Occasionaly by the Reinforcement Pack.
3. Run premium 24/7.
4. Own 44 hero or other 30% bonus mechs that I play fairly often.
5. Play at least 25-50 matches a week.

AND I STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH C-BILLS!!!!

Seriously, if I am having troubles coming up with the C-bills I need, there is an issue with the amount of C-bills we earn and/or the amount of C-bill sinks in the game.

[STEF_]

All I can say is that I was sitting on 340 millios c-bills before Civil War.

Now I have 68 millions..... LOL

But, I've never had so much fun mechlabbing like in the last weeks!
No regrets!

[Xmith]

When I was a young salesperson starting a job that paid well, my sales manager told me something that I would never forget.

Always live within your means. Follow this and you should never be short on cash. Or in this case C-Bills.

Edited by Xmith, 29 August 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[Methanoid]

Metus regem, on 29 August 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

1) Skill Tree is actually good, it gives more diversity in your mechs.

there is exactly ZERO diversity, pick any mech you like ingame, check the quirks/base stats, then proceed to only buff/skill up the stats/values that have already got high values, because they are the only stats you will notice any form of change, try being "Diverse" and attempt to buff up anything thats lacking result sin a change that yields exactly zero noticable change, a small % increase to virtually nothing is still nothing.

the only skills that have any actual noticable use are radar derp which is a stacking fixed %, and the consumable slot +1's, everything else are pathetic miniscule % increases.

Skill up a deathly slow assault mech to go faster and u wont notice much of any difference, attempt to buff a mech that cant turn to save its life and it will remain deathly slow.

Skill up a mech thats speedy as hell out of the box and u get a noticable useful bump in speed, increase the range of most projectile weapons and you get massive returns, attempt to increase the range of say HMG or flamer and you get close to nothing of worth.

The skill tree is a pathetic useless joke, lets not pretend it gives diversity, it gives a predictable 95% fixed path for every mech variant.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Methanoid, on 29 August 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

there is exactly ZERO diversity, pick any mech you like ingame, check the quirks/base stats, then proceed to only buff/skill up the stats/values that have already got high values, because they are the only stats you will notice any form of change, try being "Diverse" and attempt to buff up anything thats lacking result sin a change that yields exactly zero noticable change, a small % increase to virtually nothing is still nothing.

the only skills that have any actual noticable use are radar derp which is a stacking fixed %, and the consumable slot +1's, everything else are pathetic miniscule % increases.

Skill up a deathly slow assault mech to go faster and u wont notice much of any difference, attempt to buff a mech that cant turn to save its life and it will remain deathly slow.

Skill up a mech thats speedy as hell out of the box and u get a noticable useful bump in speed, increase the range of most projectile weapons and you get massive returns, attempt to increase the range of say HMG or flamer and you get close to nothing of worth.

The skill tree is a pathetic useless joke, lets not pretend it gives diversity, it gives a predictable 95% fixed path for every mech variant.

No your wrong. I have a ton of mechs all using different skill builds tailored to my loadouts. Sure at first I thought there was going to be a standard template but once really started understanding the skill tree and what actual effect they have on my mechs and/or specific builds, the diversity really makes itself apparent.

Take the Ice Ferret. I opted to build it with near maxed firepower, 50% survival and near maxed operations, however I could easily have removed some of the firepower skills to go full survival and make the mech quite a bit more tanky. Also I could easily have decided that mobility is better than armor and increased its agility to crazy levels, better than alot of light mechs and just as fast as well. There there were the different weapon options. When mounting HML, I wanted max heat, range, cooldown and beam duration. It pretty much requires you to go all in on Firepower. Want to use ER MLs, then honestly I could bypass alot of the range nodes. Load up missiles and I could save weight by getting the Missile Rack skills,

It is these small details that really make a difference in your optimal skill builds however most people aren't going to really dig in and experiment with coming up with an optimal skill build because of the C-bill sink. Experimenting with skills gets costly as hell real quick. I mean you got a 4+ million investment just to unlock 91 points, then to experiment you might actually end up buying 20-30 or more extra skill nodes in order to test. That is between 1 and 1.5 million C-bills just to experiment right there. I have at least one mech with 141 nodes unlocked. That cost me 2.25 million extra and we aren't even talking about the cost in XP I have had to pay to swap nodes in and out and experiment with different builds.

That is a significant amount of grind just to experiment and attempt to come up with a optimal build and I can't do it on all my mechs so guess what? Yep, I often use the "Template" method which means less diversity. Basically PGI is shooting themselves in the foot with their C-bill sink on skills because the sink is encouraging less diversity.

[El Bandito]

It is a F2P game. Ofcourse there will be grind.

[qS Sachiel]

Smites, on 29 August 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

In the hope that you'll buy MC to purchase mechs, or C-Bills to buy equipment and consumables.

Which raises an interesting question. Why can't I buy an engine for MC?

Technically you can. CB can be purchased for usd, though that would be a bad payment in my mind.

Tiewolf, on 29 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

All recent or future game design changes involves mechanics to drain our cbills.
1. skilltree = gigantic cbill sink
2. Stupid Consumable meta = cbill sink
3. 8v8 QP = less cbills for your game time
4. ...and so on and on

I get it that they try to sell premium time but my motivation to play the game drops with every new mechanic that forces me to grind more cbills. The more I am forced to grind the more I lose my fun to just play the game. So why all this forced cbill drain all of a sudden?

Per 3: has there been any statement on this yet? They could just apply a fractional multiplier to normalise cb earnings. Though I don't want 8v8 personally anywhere except maybe Solaris.