43 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

*I think we would agree that the idea of making Heavy Gauss functioning like Improved Heavy Gauss (flat 22 pts of damage) is for another topic : )


Before the HGauss dropped, some of us had expected/hoped that PGI would prebuff some its stats since it has significant drawbacks. One of those buffs would be making the 25 pts of damage happens from 0 to 270m (I know that PGI already ignored the minimum range).

As it stands, the highest practical pin point damage is 40 (dual ac/20, 1x ac/20 + 2x (s)ppc, and 2x gauss + 1x ppc). Dual HGauss wouldn't be that practical since you are piloting a big and slow 'Mech, so I think it would still be OK by giving the IS a close range 50 pts of damage PPFLD option.

[Antares102]

I would say its ok, since it costs 18 tons/11 slots which is atrocious.
Especially the 11 slots without slot splitting over two zones is the reason I'd say its needs some buff.

Edited by Antares102, 02 September 2017 - 03:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

Considering its drawbacks, I see no harm in increasing its range to 270 meters. Only Anni and Mauler will be able to dual wield them with enough ammo and armor, and there are better options instead of dual HGauss for them.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 September 2017 - 03:45 AM.

[AppleseeN]

Agree with El Bandit... HGR is a "few mech weapon" so there is no problem to increase range to 270 metres. But there is a bigger problem.... Ballistic Damage Over Range.
In 2012-2014 we got different ballistic damage system which was more realistic, now ballistics are like lazors. Actually there is an Issue to bring back the Old Damage System for ballistics.

[Y E O N N E]

Range to 270, ammo to 8, see how it goes from there.

So...yes.

[Admiral-Dan]

Hit the Deck, on 02 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

Before the HGauss dropped, some of us had expected/hoped that PGI would prebuff some its stats since it has significant drawbacks. One of those buffs would be

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.

[Chados]

^

This. I agree.

[FLG 01]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.

So good players display good results in a few, carefully selected videos - what a huge surprise!

[Y E O N N E]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.

1. The lasers were doing most of the work
2. Even they will generally tell you HGauss needs a buff. Go ahead and ask whether or not Oneill would recommend that for a comp build.

[kapusta11]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.

People score 1K+ damage in potato queue all the time. Your point?

[C E Dwyer]

Unsure, I think there would be a danger of making the AC20 obsolete, because it max range is better, and it's still worth firing H/Gauss at around 500 meters.

[Y E O N N E]

Cathy, on 02 September 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

Unsure, I think there would be a danger of making the AC20 obsolete, because it max range is better, and it's still worth firing H/Gauss at around 500 meters.

The ability to snap-fire, fit with lighter engines and the shorter total cycle time keep the AC/20 relevant next to the HGauss. The 20 would still be flat-out better for close range and full-engage.

The thing about using HGauss at 500 meters is that...you are wasting 6 tons and 8 slots of potential. It's not worth taking HGauss just to have that extra damage in reserve, you can get that firepower using standard Gauss and bigger energy weapons.

[Hit the Deck]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.
....

Cathy, on 02 September 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

Unsure, I think there would be a danger of making the AC20 obsolete, because it max range is better, and it's still worth firing H/Gauss at around 500 meters.

Currently, HGauss does 25 / 20 / 15 /10 damage @ 180 / 324 / 468 / 612 meters.

That is not enough considering you move more or less at Dire Wolf's speed while carrying dual HGauss and a handful of medium lasers. Make the weapon does 25/20 damage @ 270/540 meters and those slow dual HGauss 'Mechs could have a niche role (short range pin point heavy burst damage).

[InfinityBall]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.

Watched that through and counted every shot. He took 21 shots [edit: with the gauss] that were in range and hit something. Did a third of his damage with his 42 tons of gauss+ammo. He relied on 9 tons of lasers and consumables for his damage.

Edited by InfinityBall, 02 September 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

But you can't balance a weapon based around it paired and in two mechs.

You have to also balance it based on builds that can be faster and would take a single H/Gauss

[Y E O N N E]

Cathy, on 02 September 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

But you can't balance a weapon based around it paired and in two mechs.

You have to also balance it based on builds that can be faster and would take a single H/Gauss

Nothing you can build with a single HGauss is any more potent than what you can build using pure lasers or standard Gauss with lasers, though. Maybe I'm not thinking of the right build, show me a build you would be concerned about.

I would point out that the IS are essentially soft-capped at 60 damage using any combination of lasers and Gauss. More than that and you are running too hot and/or too slow for the output.

[InfinityBall]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

In this video he does roughly 264 damage with his 42 tons of heavy gauss+ammo. 80% of his damage with 9 tons of lasers and 0 tons of consumables. Maybe up to 400 (less than 1/3 of damage) if I've slightly overestimated the distance on some of those shots (he took a lot over 350m)

Edited by InfinityBall, 02 September 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[Kuaron]

One can have some good scores with this thing, but it still is more of a derp/fun weapon.
One can still run Mechs with STD engines if one has no money for LFE, but this doesn't mean they could compete well or that the 11 slots of the HGR would not be a giant drawback.

[InfinityBall]

Bumping this because it became a really funny story of how airstrikes are more powerful than 42 tons of weapons

[Curccu]

AlphaEtOmega, on 02 September 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well, when I watch videos of good players using Heavy Gauss I see quite good results and nothing which needs a buff.

We will see how many teams use heavygauss in MWOWC2017 semifinals and finals.
If they are good you will see them used. My estimation would be 0 times seen.