65 replies to this topic

[L1f3H4ck]

So there's an event again, and Scouting is a quick way to get 15 x 100 match score... You'd think, especially since you don't even need to win.

And yet, some people seem to struggle with this, and I don't understand why. Actually, I do understand why they're struggling, what I don't understand is, why do they bring the builds they do?

Scouting is a brawly game mode, and there are a couple of weapons that have no business there:

RACs and MRMs are fine against large, slow targets. There are no large slow... Hang on, tangent time. Do not bring large, slow mechs. Yes, Cents and Hunchies go 64 stock, that's ridiculous. Don't do it. If you're going below 80, you're doing it wrong. Where was I? Right, you will not track a fast, small mech well enough with your dakka/missile stream. Leave those RACs and MRMs at home.

If it has ER in it's name, leave it. I don't care how well your ER Large Sniper P-Hawk does in QP, it has no business in Scouting, which brings us to...

Don't play the poking game. It's a brawl, not a long range trade.

LRMs... People bring LRM boats. Why?

Edited by Ravenous Starling, 04 September 2017 - 06:19 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

I am fortunate enough to have people I tend to scout with, who are not making extremely poor decisions. However, every time I see.... this in scouting on the enemy team, it makes me angry. For their own teammates. Because people who bring these sorts of builds absolutely cripple their team. I don't care if you think you should play your way - this is a team game, and there are only four of you. If you are intentionally bringing the wrong tools to the fight, you better have a prearranged tactic agreed upon by your allies to pull it off.

Do not...


...bring LRMs to scouting. (Skip to 2:05)


It hurts your team. It cheapens the fight for your opponent by basically giving them a free win. Just do not do it!

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 04 September 2017 - 07:28 PM.

[HallowOne]

Its not even just mechs and weapons. I'm sick of calling targets and then everyone on your team hears it as do your own thing. I dont care if you all have a single mirco laser. If you all shoot at the same target then it still dies faster. DO NOT SPREAD damage. But im the hater for not letting people play the way they want. I also really enjoy listening to the novas with a ton of med lasers tell me how OP the mech is till he tries to alpha and shuts down on a cold map.

[Carl Vickers]

Come on guys, you know the prevailing attitude of potatoes who know it all is

[Pariah Devalis]

I love how this thread is a bunch of Clan pilots (myself included) practically begging IS pilots to drop the bad builds and work together to put up a real fight - and you can, guys. You really can. Your SRMs deal more damage and cluster tighter than ours (unless you compare IS SRM vs Clan Artemis SRM, in which case you still hit harder at similar weight). Your AC10/20 are far more potent than ours at direct damage application. Flamers are disproportionately effective against us. You have so, so many tools to fight us on an even, if not superior ground, yet constantly I see LRM mechs, or long range mechs.

Please reconsider.....

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 04 September 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[HallowOne]

Dont get me wrong I love a easy win because they decided to bring 3 LRM boats and something else but its teaching newer clan members not to rely on tactics and just hope that the enemy has a lower IQ than you. I have also noticed in the last few weeks ( i'm sure the events play a part) that we have more members who do know understand the idea of scouting. They just run off and get all the intel they can and bring in the drop ship for the enemy. Ive lost more that way in the last month or so than losing the fight.

[Daidachi]

4 x Bushwhacker P1.

GG EZ

[Davegt27]

wow that Mech has a 58 Alpha
so 116 to kill a Mech
I think I see the problem

oh wait its the Clan players skill that won yeah that's it

Edited by Davegt27, 04 September 2017 - 10:21 PM.

[Insanity09]

IS should never bring LRMs (okay, maybe a single 5, maybe, just for shock value).

As Ravenous said, streaming weapons: RACs, MGs (as much as I generally like them), and MRM's just don't work well in scouting (Clan LRMs are iffy, but okay in the right team).

There are only 4 people on the team, you really need to pull your weight, or else it will effectively be 4 on 3, or worse, and those are bad odds.

Locusts especially, but 25 (or <) tonners in general aren't going to have the power and armor the team needs (unless you agree to smoke dive on gather, special case). It may work at times, but be prepared to be doubted when you queue up an LCT, MLX, or similar.

[Pariah Devalis]

Davegt27, on 04 September 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

wow that Mech has a 58 Alpha
so 116 to kill a Mech
I think I see the problem

oh wait its the Clan players skill that won yeah that's it

I'm not arguing my mech build. A configuration I could run on slower, but tankier mechs. We are collectively telling IS players to stop taking LRM boats in scouting. Obviously it isn't because they pose any real risk currently, as we consistently kick the tar out of them.

We are telling you all to stop taking LRM boats because you are selfishly hurting your team. No ifs, ands, or buts. Tell me, what would that LRM boat have done if instead of focusing on him, we all focused on his team instead? With nobody to indirectly lock for him, and nowhere near a chance in a knife fight with our mechs, he would have died, anyways.

Just like in the second video.

If we left the LRM mech alone, it would be a 4v3, and in the space of about 15 seconds a 4v2, and then a 4v1. You said it. Our mechs are faster. Why the hell would you take a weapon with such a terrible minimum range in this game mode, again?

Daidachi, on 04 September 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

4 x Bushwhacker P1.

GG EZ

Insanity09, on 04 September 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

IS should never bring LRMs (okay, maybe a single 5, maybe, just for shock value).

As Ravenous said, streaming weapons: RACs, MGs (as much as I generally like them), and MRM's just don't work well in scouting (Clan LRMs are iffy, but okay in the right team).

There are only 4 people on the team, you really need to pull your weight, or else it will effectively be 4 on 3, or worse, and those are bad odds.

Locusts especially, but 25 (or <) tonners in general aren't going to have the power and armor the team needs (unless you agree to smoke dive on gather, special case). It may work at times, but be prepared to be doubted when you queue up an LCT, MLX, or similar.

These guys get it.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 05 September 2017 - 04:04 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Every thing you said may be clear as daylight for those:

-- playing MWO for some time and having learned the weapons mechanics and care enough about the game to give a F..k
-- playing on a computer that gives you enough performance to actually care to even try brawling
-- playing MWO and beeing able to target fast and accurat enough to be worth sh.. in a brawl
-- having the money and nerves to bother with equiping a mech for scout and scout only

...and a myriad other reasons..so stop complaining and realize that the problem is the mode and the (completely stupid unbattletech like) game mechanics that force you to drive a certain loadouts, invalidating all other loadouts that would otherwise at least not completely worthless.

Don't get me wrong, I do not scond the "spezial I want to do it myway snowflakes".
Its just that your rant becomes pretty pointless when taking into account that the same guys not beeing able or interested or knowledgeable enough to successfully play PUG SCOUT are effin PUGs.

So if you are so pro to have the builds, knowledge and skills to play FP Scout correctly why the f..k are you puging ????
The first and foremost rule of ALL FP MODES IS YOU SHALL NOT PUG OR BE DAMNED TO GET NAPS IN YOUR TEAM AND GET SHAFTED.

Edited by The Basilisk, 05 September 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[Fuerchtenichts]

Davegt27, on 04 September 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

wow that Mech has a 58 Alpha
so 116 to kill a Mech
I think I see the problem

oh wait its the Clan players skill that won yeah that's it

Skill = luck becoming a habit.

In this case it seems it was just an XL engine blown off because of a lack of rear shoulder armor combined with mech build rule #3 "Don't bring LRMs to a brawl!"

[Curccu]

Ravenous Starling, on 04 September 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

So there's an event again, and Scouting is a quick way to get 15 x 100 match score... You'd think, especially since you don't even need to win.

And yet, some people seem to struggle with this, and I don't understand why. Actually, I do understand why they're struggling, what I don't understand is, why do they bring the builds they do?

Scouting is a brawly game mode, and there are a couple of weapons that have no business there:

RACs and MRMs are fine against large, slow targets. There are no large slow... Hang on, tangent time. Do not bring large, slow mechs. Yes, Cents and Hunchies go 64 stock, that's ridiculous. Don't do it. If you're going below 80, you're doing it wrong. Where was I? Right, you will not track a fast, small mech well enough with your dakka/missile stream. Leave those RACs and MRMs at home.

If it has ER in it's name, leave it. I don't care how well your ER Large Sniper P-Hawk does in QP, it has no business in Scouting, which brings us to...

Don't play the poking game. It's a brawl, not a long range trade.

LRMs... People bring LRM boats. Why?

LRms are fine....









...If you only use it when you get polar highlands and actually know how to play those against fast'ish brawly opponents.

[L1f3H4ck]

The Basilisk, on 05 September 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

Every thing you said may be clear as daylight for those:

-- playing MWO for some time and having learned the weapons mechanics and care enough about the game to give a F..k
-- playing on a computer that gives you enough performance to actually care to even try brawling
-- playing MWO and beeing able to target fast and accurat enough to be worth sh.. in a brawl
-- having the money and nerves to bother with equiping a mech for scout and scout only

...and a myriad other reasons..so stop complaining and realize that the problem is the mode and the (completely stupid unbattletech like) game mechanics that force you to drive a certain loadouts, invalidating all other loadouts that would otherwise at least not completely worthless.

Don't get me wrong, I do not scond the &quot;spezial I want to do it myway snowflakes&quot;.
Its just that your rant becomes pretty pointless when taking into account that the same guys not beeing able or interested or knowledgeable enough to successfully play PUG SCOUT are effin PUGs.

So if you are so pro to have the builds, knowledge and skills to play FP Scout correctly why the f..k are you puging ????
The first and foremost rule of ALL FP MODES IS YOU SHALL NOT PUG OR BE DAMNED TO GET NAPS IN YOUR TEAM AND GET SHAFTED.

I called it a rant for a reason. I had just finished the event, had seen what people bring, and was in no mood to play Captain Carebear.

Besides, whoever is reading this has obviously found the forums and there is enough advice to be found here on what's hot and what's not, and how to get the most fps out of an old PC.

[Davegt27]

Quote

I'm not arguing my mech build. A configuration I could run on slower, but tankier mechs. We are collectively telling IS players to stop taking LRM boats in scouting. Obviously it isn't because they pose any real risk currently, as we consistently kick the tar out of them.

We are telling you all to stop taking LRM boats because you are selfishly hurting your team. No ifs, ands, or buts. Tell me, what would that LRM boat have done if instead of focusing on him, we all focused on his team instead? With nobody to indirectly lock for him, and nowhere near a chance in a knife fight with our mechs, he would have died, anyways.

Just like in the second video.

If we left the LRM mech alone, it would be a 4v3, and in the space of about 15 seconds a 4v2, and then a 4v1. You said it. Our mechs are faster. Why the hell would you take a weapon with such a terrible minimum range in this game mode, again?

sorry I should have said wow that shadow cat has 58 alpha and is doing over 125KPH

that dumb guy in the Kintaro should switch to SRMs at least

ok wait the Clan SRMs weigh 50% less (how in the world did PGI come up with 50% I am thinking)

let me look on SARNA
well crap SARNA has the Clan SRM 6s at 50% less (how did PGI come up with 50% less)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM-6

edit: correction 50%

Edited by Davegt27, 05 September 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[J0anna]

Davegt27, on 05 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

the Clan SRMs weigh 60% less (how in the world did PGI come up with 60% I am thinking)

Clan SRM 6 weighs 1.5 tons, IS SRM 6 weighs 3.0 tons, same as TT. Guess I don't see it.....

[Appogee]

I dropped in a PUG scouting team last night that had an LRM Commando.

I fear one day I'm going to go over the edge and TK idiots like this to discourage them from ever bringing crap like that to a match again.

I also dropped with IS PUGs who collectively decided they should hide from the Clan Scouts, even though it was our mission to "find the Scouts and kill them before they can escape with our intel". Even when I pointed out our mission, and how the enemy were unlikely to spontaneously combust, these idiots stayed hiding behind rocks and wouldn't come out.

I was the only one to make the required 100 match score in both those losses.

Edited by Appogee, 05 September 2017 - 09:26 AM.

[Davegt27]

your right 50% less

thanks

edit:
my new shadowcat I got it up to 68 alpha lol

Edited by Davegt27, 05 September 2017 - 09:41 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Having swapped IS for the first time in a year I can make one additional observation about the current state of Puglandia.

Many (not most or all...just enough to matter) IS pugs these days seem to expect to lose (even if faced with less than top notch competition)....therefore they don't see the value in listening and going along with a plan. They play how they want and don't seem phased by losing a match that was potentially winnable if they had made an effort to try what was called. It's not that they are worse in terms of skill than Clan PUGs (who can and do play equally stupidly)....it's a "we are going to lose anyway" attitude that kills any basic coordination as a team.

I can only think that the Clan dominance on the maps and in Tuk has made some of these folks numb to losses. Therefore, they maybe don't see that stuff like bringing correct builds, following dropcalls, etc would make the difference in matches where there isn't much skill difference.

Yes...perhaps the IS just has more newer players....but they also have more players that go into matches expecting losses (and say so) and just play what and how they want.....score less than 500 damage, yet argue and don't follow any plan a unit might try to hatch.

Also, idk what is going on here...but some of the smaller (and lesser known) units I am seeing IS-side don't seem to know how to play certain modes. Dropping all Maulers on river city Conquest (wave 1) and not even asking the Pugs to drop light to cap is one example. Hint: it might be a laugh to do that...but letting the enemy team have 4 easy cap points immediately isn't a winning strategy on that mode.

On the plus side: My respect for some of the consistent and competitive IS loyalist units is further increased...you guys put up with a lot of nonsense with your pug teammates.

[MischiefSC]

Curccu, on 05 September 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

LRms are fine....









...If you only use it when you get polar highlands and actually know how to play those against fast'ish brawly opponents.

Polar Highlands is not a flat, featureless plane.

I can close to 180m while exposing myself only briefly, not enough for you to do any significant damage. Then I'll kill you with 0 effort.

Beyond that you're letting us play 4 v 3 against your teammates. We have 350 armor/mech, so 1400 armor in that fight. We have alphas that do about 45 damage alpha (average of 40-50 pts) to selected locations each exchange. 4 of us, that's 180 damage/exchange.

Your teammates only have 1050 armor in that fight because the guy with LRMs is off hiding and shooting from cover.

Your teammates are doing 135 damage (45x3) + your scattered, inaccurate LRM damage to wherever it hits.

So in the first exchange we will absolutely kill 1 of them. Now it's 180 damage vs 90 damage + 1 inaccurate splattering of LRMs.

Do you see how that works?

LRMs are not artillery support. They do not kill tons of enemies with every salvo, they don't obliterate targets and everything close by every time they fire, which makes them useful as a support weapon.

LRMs do about the same damage (or less) per ton devoted to them but do it inaccurately compared to every other weapon.

The only thing LRMs do well is let you shoot while hiding. So you're doing less useful damage and less accurately, but in return you get to force your teammates to fight with 1 less mechs worth of armor to soak up enemy return fire.

LRMs are always bad. Always. Every situation, every map, every mode. They are inherently inferior as a choice to direct fire. Always, no exceptions. There is no 'except when'.

The only time LRMs are viable is when the player has physical disabilities that leave them unable to aim accurately or they're playing on a potato that has such terrible sub-30 fps that they literally can't effectively aim. In that instance LRMs may be their most viable choice because they literally can't use direct fire.

The problem isn't that LRMs are bad for scouting. It's that scouting is only 4 v 4, so each player is a more critical piece of their teams performance and so it highlights how absolutely always 100% terrible LRMs are compared to direct fire.

There is no map, no situation, no reason