143 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Exilyth, on 05 September 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

Reduced critical slots by weight class is an advanced rule in the TT which is both experimental and optional.

Try mounting 2 AC20 on a light.

Cuz the lights with AC20s are so meta that they need to be nerfed into the ground

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 September 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

Cuz the lights with AC20s are so meta that they need to be nerfed into the ground

Boom Raven OP. Pls kil

[Dee Eight]

On a match yesterday, I used 4 shotguns on my annihilator to make a commando disappear in one shot. OP my shiny metal behind...

[GrimRiver]

...light are dominating?

Looks at qq: 7% Light - 28% Medium - 40% Heavy - 22% Assault.

Yup, lights are totally dominating. /sarcasm

A really good build can strip the armor off a medium's side torso in 1 alpha, think of what that can do to a light mech.

Most of my assaults only have torso mounted weapons(AS7/BLR/BNC) and I still dispatch lights with ease so I really don't know what other people's issue is, I guess they're using xbox controllers or something because their aim is too potatoes for the mouse???

[Battlemaster56]

GrimRiver, on 05 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

, I guess they're using xbox controllers or something because their aim is too potatoes for the mouse???

This is why I use the superior PS4 controller can do everything a xbob controller can but better!!!

[stealthraccoon]

I'm totally OP in lights, but only every eighth game, can't let my tier get outta hand....

[Prototelis]

Dee Eight, on 05 September 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

On a match yesterday, I used 4 shotguns on my annihilator to make a commando disappear in one shot. OP my shiny metal behind...

Hah, was that me? I think it was me. I kind of remember cresting a hill in my pirates bane and getting insta-boomed. Funny ****.

[Trissila]

Rifleman89, on 05 September 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Go ahead and flame all you want. Lights packing weapons they way they can is the problem you are ignoring. How about countering the intent of the post, the design flaw? Sure it's easier to post a few quick, snippy comments that you think will keep me in the mech bay and off the battlefield, but you're wrong about that and aren't addressing a glaring problem. I didn't say I was having trouble with them nor their play style and need on the battlefield. You've addressed something entirely different and many in game and in the forums have commented about this. I was curious about the issue and was only pointing out why they can carry weapons loadouts that are "unreal"......because they are. Prove me wrong on that point...

But it's not a design flaw. You're comparing a light mech with one weapon to a heavy mech with one weapon and that is simply not how Battletech works. The design does not account for you doing something incredibly silly like bringing a 60-ton mech and only putting 37 tons of weight on it. Yeah, if you do that, then the light mech goes faster because the game does not care about consumed weight when factoring speed. The balance is that the Rifleman still has 23 tons of room for you to put things on it without affecting its speed -- the light's got basically nothing left.

[- World Eater -]

ZippySpeedMonkey, on 05 September 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Oh god....

He's a size queen.

ftfy

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Wait, why is the OP putting the same loadout on a light and heavy?! I stopped reading after that, but undertonning/undergunning your mechs is a no no. If you aren't maxing out the tonnage (eg 80/80 tons etc), then it's no wonder you're dying to lights...

[Mole]

Oh, are we having the "lights OP" discussions again because the Mist Lynx can kill stuff now?

[Xorkrath]

I think lights have enough problems and drawbacks to deal with, without also having to be labeled as "OP".

The thing is, what is true for lights is true of any other weight class: when there's a lance of them piloted by experienced people who know precisely how to utilize them, they can steamroll. I twice got swarmed by a coordinated group of ACH run by some group I forget now. They were incredibly efficient and brutal killing machines. Yet alone, not a one of them would have been any real threat. It took a group of coordinated, experienced players to bring out the best in them. And yet still, their use was very situational and the flanking maneuvers they pulled would not have been viable in all maps or situations. But when they are in their (very situational) element, they can be effective.

I remember once, I was sitting near the front firing line of my team, waiting for the signal to pop over...when a sole enemy Raven happened to poke his head up over a hill I happened to be watching off our left flank. I instantly alpha'd him away. That was a pilot that made one little mistake, had just a tidbit of bad luck, and was thusly punished by being removed from the match before any of the real fun could begin. Point is that, lights have very little room for error and take a lot of piloting skill to use, if you even get the chance to bring out the full potential of the unit. Much of what you do in a light doesn't get recognized or rewarded by the system, the payouts tend to suck, and teammates really don't appreciate what you do and frequently don't capitalize on the opportunities you fight hard to bring them.

With the new stuff we recently got, lights just got a little more viable and a little bit better within the narrow niche they've cut out for themselves (and slightly better overall). To have tunnel vision and declare something as being OP within the one niche it has, is exceptionally short-sighted. While we still need PGI to provide better rewards for light support duties, we also don't need players clamoring for nerfs because they fell into a niche situation and got taken advantage of. It's better for you to learn new tactics to not get taken advantage of, because if you don't, no amount of nerfs to lights will fix the perceived problem.

[Curccu]

Rifleman89, on 05 September 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Go ahead and flame all you want. Lights packing weapons they way they can is the problem you are ignoring. How about countering the intent of the post, the design flaw? Sure it's easier to post a few quick, snippy comments that you think will keep me in the mech bay and off the battlefield, but you're wrong about that and aren't addressing a glaring problem. I didn't say I was having trouble with them nor their play style and need on the battlefield. You've addressed something entirely different and many in game and in the forums have commented about this. I was curious about the issue and was only pointing out why they can carry weapons loadouts that are "unreal"......because they are. Prove me wrong on that point...

Ok as non-flamy as I can...
This is a game of imaginary stompy robots in imaginary universe created 30 Years ago by people who smoked too much weed or stronger stuff (because most stock loadouts are so bad).
It is the design without flaw, that is how they wanted it to be. There is no issue of small mechs wielding big guns that are "unreal", well because they are not real.
This is one of the original "unreal" designs and I love the design loved it in mechcommanders but that mech would be bad as hell in MWO and I hope never to see it in this game.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander

[Dark Path]

ZippySpeedMonkey, on 05 September 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Oh god....

He's a sizist.

You sir make me sick with your unabashed hatred of little mechs. Get with the times you mech persecuter. It's the 31st century. There is no place here for that kind of backwards thinking...

This 100%.

To the OP, how dare you, sir, how dare you. Your size bigotry does not belong in this century, we all matter no matter what size. Please be on the right side of history sir.

The issue I've found is a lot of new and returning players (like myself) have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn, you in your heavy are fortunately the broad side of barn. The lights zip around before we can even level our weapons, or chew on our backsides before we even realize the flashing back armor. This nothing to do with the mech, it's all skill or lack thereof. Most players just don't know how to deal with bee swarm.

Additionally, strategic planning of your payload is an issue. if you're worried about lights as a heavy or assault why are you packing so many massive cannons and no fly swatter? I was in the same boat, realized my limitations of barely being able to scratch the paint of a light, and so I started carrying some streaks along. Now I have fly swatters and once they see the streaks they often go bother someone else.

Edited by Dark Path, 05 September 2017 - 12:34 PM.

[MadRover]

Mole, on 05 September 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Oh, are we having the "lights OP" discussions again because the Mist Lynx can kill stuff now?

Looks like it. I can honestly make the OP a list of why lights aren't used, but I don't have the time for it. I could, but I enjoy my free time spent on better things.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Come on. Apart from the strange conclusion that lights dominate anything, he has actually a good point on crit slots for some reason being equal regardless of mech size.

[J0anna]

LordNothing, on 05 September 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

lights have been dead for a very long time. a new meta appears to change that and people want it stamped out? i say lights deserve their day in the sun. machine guns should have been buffed a long time ago.

They did have their 'day in the sun' many years ago. Back when there was a thing known as lag shield, and groups and solo used to play together (in the old 8 v 8 days). I distinctly remember running a 4 Jenner group that obliterated everything, dropping and knowing that whatever the other team had didn't matter, iirc we went 21 -0, before we got tired of killing everything.

As far as MG's go, if it means more lights and mediums in que (to kill the lights), then by all means don't nerf MG's....

[Rovertoo]

I feel if you are concerned about some sort of "science" explaination or some reason for it to simply make logical sense (first off, hard to find in a big robot game, but I agree it seems a tad counterintuitive), then perhaps slots are the same for each mech simply because the bigger the mech, the more space is used for armor and whatever styrofoam is used to make 100 tons so massive. So with the scaling for whatever motors and tendons and ammo feeds or whatnot, its all the engineers can do to keep the standard amount of space for jump jets and heat sinks and weapons needed for any mech to be viable on the field.

Also, I know you are getting a lot of flak for this but....

Lights really arent OP. Sorry. Machine guns maybe, but lights not in a million years.

[Wintersdark]

Rifleman89, on 05 September 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Go ahead and flame all you want. Lights packing weapons they way they can is the problem you are ignoring. How about countering the intent of the post, the design flaw? Sure it's easier to post a few quick, snippy comments that you think will keep me in the mech bay and off the battlefield, but you're wrong about that and aren't addressing a glaring problem. I didn't say I was having trouble with them nor their play style and need on the battlefield. You've addressed something entirely different and many in game and in the forums have commented about this. I was curious about the issue and was only pointing out why they can carry weapons loadouts that are "unreal"......because they are. Prove me wrong on that point...

Long and short, here's the same response I've always had (since 2012) every single time someone rants something like this.

Either:

1) You're just bad and being spanked by light mechs that you find hard to hit, or
2) Lights are overall simply overpowered.

If #1, then you just need to stop being bad, and the problem goes away. In this instance, lights will seem OP to some people and not to others.

If #2, you're getting spanked and there's nothing you can do about it. People like to believe this! Then it's not on them! However, if #2 is the case, you'll find lights become the most populous weight class in no time at all, because people like winning most of all, and gravitate towards the most powerful mechs and builds at an amazing rate. This is easiest to do in this case vs, say, OMG Kodiaks are the best mech ever, because Lights are cheap and easy for anyone to buy


When I look at the weight class distribution, I still see lights at the very bottom of the tree. Every time, lights are lowest. Clearly, lights as a weight class are not overpowered. This has been the case continuously since 2012, excepted only in a couple light based events, and even then they'd barely reach parity unlike other weight class based events which see upwards of 50% usage of a single weight class.


Lights having a surplus of crit space is not a problem. Lights lack tonnage to use that space well, much like Assaults lack critical space to use all their tonnage. This is an inherent balancing mechanism that serves to reduce the gap between weight classes. It's intentional. A major design goal of MWO is that all weight classes should be reasonably competitive with each other - in short, that "you don't just lose because you're in a lighter mech."

[JediPanther]

Rifleman89, on 05 September 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

It's a design flaw IMHO, that really needs fixing.
Ask yourself--how does a light have as many slots for the SAME size weapons and SAME SIZE engine as a heavy that is twice its size and weight, in general????

Compare a SDR-5K and a RFL-3N with the same engine and weapons loadouts:
XL 195, Gauss + 2t ammo, Lt Ferro, Endo, DHS

I know, bad design for both, BUT possible. The Spider has to have a bit less than max armor and weighs in at 30t and sports a 105.3 kph speed. The Rifleman can take full armor, weighs in at 37.9t and only goes 52.7kph. Hmmmm........

Did you even smurfy the builds you compared? You can't even get half armor on the spider. Your Spider build:http://SDR-5K Guasswot

sucks really. I pilot lights a lot no way some one would even consider your spider build unless they are tolling for the max. The rifleman build is far superior since it can have a lot more armor with back up weapon.

http://RFL-3Nguasswot
The rifleman gets FULL armor and all the advantages of bap,case and tc mk1.

Exactly which lights do you find dominating and what builds? I guarantee that the ach with sml/spl can be found along with the current mist g mg build trend along with the locusts and raven 3ls. Do tell us and pgi as well why light que is ALWAYS the lowest of the four ques for mechs that seem so dominating.

If you can't kill a light especially your joke-troll guass spider,which was built with the normal guass and not LIGHT guass, that five armor isn't going to get you any where. You run that spider and you will die when anything even scratches your mech or even run at full speed and hit the ground dying to leg damage.