349 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 February 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

I know that really bad players claim it doesn't matter to make themselves feel better, but sorry if your average match score is less than 200 and your KDR is less than 0.5, you not credit to team, regardless of what mechs you are piloting.

Mystere, on 27 January 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

Screw e-peen! I myself took a different tack. I now choose to just play with style.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 February 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

I know that really bad players claim it doesn't matter to make themselves feel better, but sorry if your average match score is less than 200 and your KDR is less than 0.5, you not credit to team, regardless of what mechs you are piloting.

It'll be nice to see what 100% Tier 1 games actually look like
Without manually looking up any names, because that's work.

[UnofficialOperator]

Mystere, on 01 February 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

Seriously, do people actually care about this stuff?

Its like Zen eh? If it matters, it matters. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.

Seems like it matters to you.

[PocketYoda]

I don't need a spreadsheet to tell me i'm ******* garbage.. But hey i enjoy the game.. well sometimes i enjoy the game...

Apparently i'm rank 22525

I'm good with that lol

Edited by Samial, 01 February 2018 - 05:19 PM.

[FupDup]

Jarl's list actually kind of scares me because apparently I'm rank 492 right now. There must be an awful high number of ultra super mega potatoes in this game to keep me this high up...

[NRP]

Nah, Fup you pull your weight. At least from what I've seen.

[Bombast]

FupDup, on 01 February 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

Jarl's list actually kind of scares me because apparently I'm rank 492 right now. There must be an awful high number of ultra super mega potatoes in this game to keep me this high up...

You're telling me. I'm at 1,392 (97.39%), and I can't even shoot straight.

Edited by Bombast, 01 February 2018 - 05:29 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 01 February 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

Jarl's list actually kind of scares me because apparently I'm rank 492 right now. There must be an awful high number of ultra super mega potatoes in this game to keep me this high up...

There actually is an awfully high number of ultra-super-mega potatoes in this game.

FFS, I'm still in the top 3% and I've been doing mediocre.

[Mystere]

UnofficialOperator, on 01 February 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

Its like Zen eh? If it matters, it matters. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.

Seems like it matters to you.

Huh? I thought the joystick and iPads were clues enough,

[UnofficialOperator]

Mystere, on 01 February 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Huh? I thought the joystick and iPads were clues enough,

Lol did you not see Juju and his toe mouse?

Pretty sure any good player with those equipment will still rock out

[MischiefSC]

As a leaderboard it's probably more accurate than PGIs. Sample size doesn't start to become a big issue when you start to get into the hundreds of matches; the difference between 200 matches and 1,000 matches isn't that much - assuming they're not an alt.

Match score is an iffy metric but the reality is that playing in a pug team fundamentally bothers some people. It *feels* so much like luck in a match by match basis so people really, really want to find a metric other than win/loss by which to judge who is and is not 'good'. The problem is that the 'good' that is gauged in matchscore is farming damage. If I spend a month taking streaks, LRMs and LBX and farming damage but only winning a bit over 50% of my matches I'm ranked way, way higher than if I take good mechs that do concentrated damage and win 2/3rds or better of my matches. So winning half again more matches (which is hard to do in pug queue) is way less useful than doing 20% more damage (which is really easy to do in pug queue). However there's also the issue with pug and group queue being mixed which can artificially inflate the w/l of bad players who constantly play group queue with top tier players.

I would argue that there's far, far fewer bad players who drop constantly with top tier players in group queue than there are people who do a lot of damage by taking damage farming mechs while contributing very little to their teams winning but, again, people feel like damage is something they directly control and it feels very useful. That's a big part of why people say that LRMs are so great; it feels like they're helping with all that damage.

Whatever else is said though it is a phenomenal tool for looking at your own stats and performance. Your changes in damage, kills, win/loss, weight class used and how that changes over time. I love that I see cut/paste of this regularly when people argue stats now instead of leaderboard. It's an awesome contribution to the game.

[Xavori]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 February 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

I know that really bad players claim it doesn't matter to make themselves feel better, but sorry if your average match score is less than 200 and your KDR is less than 0.5, you not credit to team, regardless of what mechs you are piloting.

Oh, absolutely positively true. I mean, my leaderboard stats are spot on with my skill level at this game and since they show I suck, obviously...

Except...

I can put up 1k damage in a light mech:
https://steamuserima...54E7D4F271D035/

Or with with junk mechs like the Archer:
https://steamuserima...57CC5E7E9232F7/

Or with an even worse mech, the most un-meta mech to ever un-meta the meta, the Thanatos:
https://steamuserima...6D3DA7870056ED/

Or instead of just damage, what about those stupid match scored based faction events. I put together a mech specifically to max match score, and went up against a very good scouting team...and had highest match score:
https://steamuserima...AFF25C7BC12A8E/

Ya know, it's almost like my stats have less to do with my actual pilot skill, and more to do with the fact that I like having fun, not farming stats. And so I'll do silly things like take the garbage Thanatos and work at it until I find a build and play style that actually works.

[MischiefSC]

Xavori, on 01 February 2018 - 10:24 PM, said:

Oh, absolutely positively true. I mean, my leaderboard stats are spot on with my skill level at this game and since they show I suck, obviously...

Except...

I can put up 1k damage in a light mech:
https://steamuserima...54E7D4F271D035/

Or with with junk mechs like the Archer:
https://steamuserima...57CC5E7E9232F7/

Or with an even worse mech, the most un-meta mech to ever un-meta the meta, the Thanatos:
https://steamuserima...6D3DA7870056ED/

Or instead of just damage, what about those stupid match scored based faction events. I put together a mech specifically to max match score, and went up against a very good scouting team...and had highest match score:
https://steamuserima...AFF25C7BC12A8E/

Ya know, it's almost like my stats have less to do with my actual pilot skill, and more to do with the fact that I like having fun, not farming stats. And so I'll do silly things like take the garbage Thanatos and work at it until I find a build and play style that actually works.

The only useful things to get out of stats and leaderboards is things like 'how much are you likely to help me win if you're on my team?'

The result is, 'not much'. That's okay for you; you play and have fun and take whatever you want. However having you on my team makes it way, way more likely that I'll lose the match and the 11 other players on your team will lose the match and get paid less for their time than if they drop with Gas Guzzler.

Why that is doesn't matter. You could be the greatest, most incredibly talented player of MWO in the world but if most the time you're goofing off so much you win only 2 out of 5 matches (you currently win a bit less than that) then dropping with you is most likely dead weight for the team.

I don't care how much damage you do, I don't care who you kill - I care if having you on my team is going to help me win. I don't care how, I don't care why. I care about who wins the match. Everything else is pretty irrelevant.

[Xavori]

MischiefSC, on 01 February 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

The only useful things to get out of stats and leaderboards is things like 'how much are you likely to help me win if you're on my team?'

The result is, 'not much'. That's okay for you; you play and have fun and take whatever you want. However having you on my team makes it way, way more likely that I'll lose the match and the 11 other players on your team will lose the match and get paid less for their time than if they drop with Gas Guzzler.

Why that is doesn't matter. You could be the greatest, most incredibly talented player of MWO in the world but if most the time you're goofing off so much you win only 2 out of 5 matches (you currently win a bit less than that) then dropping with you is most likely dead weight for the team.

I don't care how much damage you do, I don't care who you kill - I care if having you on my team is going to help me win. I don't care how, I don't care why. I care about who wins the match. Everything else is pretty irrelevant.

For me specifically, I'm a very different player when I'm playing with actual teammates than with PUG's. I actually follow calls, take the mechs our caller wants, etc.

So when I'm in a good mech, with good teammates, and playing seriously, well, I have hundreds of screenshots like those. But then I have a bunch of screenshots when I was collecting data between Light Gauss Ghille builds while I was trying to make that work just because one of my former unit mates hates the Light Gauss (for good reasons), and eventually, I did:

https://steamuserima...250B80685B3AA5/

But the half dozen matches I had once I figured it out are more than offset by the two dozen or so terribad matches that preceded it because well, the Light Gauss rifle sucks, the Ghille sucks, and if you put them together, it's so much worse

But still, I had a lot of fun doing that and getting it to work in spite of how bad it was.

p.s. I'm not kidding about not putting a Light Guass on a Ghille. Or any mech for that matter. Or running the Ghille. All of these things are terribad ideas. But if you insist, here's the build, and may god have mercy on your soul because the other team won't:

https://steamuserima...6163D644890A4A/

[YueFei]

I think the Jarl's List should put more weight toward W/L. I agree with Mischief that W/L is, at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters. The rest of the stats are for examining the how, and the why... and trying to properly "weight" various stats to properly account for their importance is going to be rather subjective, whereas W/L is pretty cut and dried.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 01 February 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

Match score is an iffy metric but the reality is that playing in a pug team fundamentally bothers some people. It *feels* so much like luck in a match by match basis so people really, really want to find a metric other than win/loss by which to judge who is and is not 'good'. The problem is that the 'good' that is gauged in matchscore is farming damage. If I spend a month taking streaks, LRMs and LBX and farming damage but only winning a bit over 50% of my matches I'm ranked way, way higher than if I take good mechs that do concentrated damage and win 2/3rds or better of my matches. So winning half again more matches (which is hard to do in pug queue) is way less useful than doing 20% more damage (which is really easy to do in pug queue). However there's also the issue with pug and group queue being mixed which can artificially inflate the w/l of bad players who constantly play group queue with top tier players.

Just for **** and giggles, farming damage using nothing but LRMs for a day and only streaks for another showed just how correct you are. Even on a loss, it's usually at worst an "=" on PSR.

Although I still think W/L is the best measure over the long term, a better metric for measuring "effective" damage would be helpful for those who think otherwise. However, that still leaves other intangibles like command, aggro, and other non-damage support in the lurch.

Of course, all of the above are under the assumption I actually do care.

[Zergling]

FupDup, on 01 February 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

Jarl's list actually kind of scares me because apparently I'm rank 492 right now. There must be an awful high number of ultra super mega potatoes in this game to keep me this high up...

I'm amused that even though I didn't bother making any effort to play well in January, I STILL made 69% percentile and a 1.09 W/L.

But just how bad at the game is the bulk of the playerbase if a player like me, that isn't even bothering to make an effort, can still score above the average?
Like, I'm far from a top player; I honestly don't even deserve to be Tier 1.

Just... wat?!

Edited by Zergling, 01 February 2018 - 11:27 PM.

[HauptmanT]

It's cool to look at... tells me a few things about my particular playstyle. Which is of course... inconsistent random levels of potato.

Season 13, looks like I did fairly well, not my best season... but 19 games played, and pretty much all of them in an LRM scorch. I wasnt really playing... just logging on to play a game or two for kicks, then go back to WarThunder.

Then there's season 5, my most active season, when I really got into this game, and was getting fairly decent at it (I thought) but progress went down from the previous season when I was total newb... LoLz. But the growth finally shows in season 6, my highest scoring season...

But here we are now... where I aparently still suck... but I guess that's due to me trying to not be a lurmgump all the time... I play a lot of builds I am not comfortable with now, and rely less on LURMs.

Final season (19) I took a huge nosedive... because I love mediums now. Yeh ok I can see why people say mediums are bad. Apparently they are. I'm still having fun though so I'll try and ignore that... or maybe I wont... Maybe I'll play this month farming score with LURMs just to see what happens.

[El Bandito]

Zergling, on 01 February 2018 - 11:25 PM, said:

I'm amused that even though I didn't bother making any effort to play well in January, I STILL made 69% percentile and a 1.09 W/L.

But just how bad at the game is the bulk of the playerbase if a player like me, that isn't even bothering to make an effort, can still score above the average?
Like, I'm far from a top player; I honestly don't even deserve to be Tier 1.

Just... wat?!

It simply shows that there are tens of thousands of really bad players, and we should be grateful of the PSR system, as deeply flawed as it is.

[Bombast]

YueFei, on 01 February 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

I think the Jarl's List should put more weight toward W/L.

It probably should. It's the most important stat. Pretty easy to demonstrate, personally - I ran up a Jarl's comparison of our unit for a laugh. Turned out I was the 5th best person by Jarl's metrics, out of 60. Switch to WLR, and I drop to 29th. And I can tell you, honestly, that is a lot more accurate