68 replies to this topic

[Carl Vickers]

Vellron2005, on 08 September 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

#Triggered

The best part of that whole rant was when he was triggered.

[Vxheous]

Trissila, on 08 September 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Spending five minutes tickling a heavy mech until it finally falls -- meanwhile it's doing damage to your team the whole time, AND the enemy team has fewer targets to shoot at because you're sitting back behind a hill somewhere and refusing to share armor -- is absolutely a worse kill than getting the job done quicker and while increasing the number of targets the enemy has to worry about.

People don't hate lurmboats because they use LRMs. They hate lurmboats because lurmboats are part and parcel with a playstyle that shifts all of the risk onto teammates and does effectively nothing to help them.

LRMs as supplemental weapon systems to get in a bit of extra damage in a few situations where you either can't do direct damage or it's not safe to do so? Sure, fine.

LRMs as a primary weapon system to the exclusion of any of the more effective systems, being a horribly inefficient artillery piece that makes everyone else's job harder? Not fine.

I just feel bad for the enemy team every time I roll up on a lurmboat in my Timberwolf and there is absolutely nothing he can do to stop me. He just sits there, hopelessly shining his TAG light at me (if he even has that) and regretting his life choices while I tear him apart.

The difference? I brought 6 medium lasers to go with my twin LRM10 racks. He dropped the lasers to fit in a few more useless tubes.

You know, I've read a few of your posts here in the Brown sea, and you seem like you've developed a pretty good grasp of this game in the short amount of time you've played. Now, just take that last step and take those backup LRMS off your mech. Run your Timber with 2 LPL + 4/5 ERML and just profit. Thank me later

Edited by Vxheous, 09 September 2017 - 03:57 AM.

[Trissila]

Vxheous, on 09 September 2017 - 03:54 AM, said:

You know, I've read a few of your posts here in the Brown sea, and you seem like you've developed a pretty good grasp of this game in the short amount of time you've played. Now, just take that last step and take those backup LRMS off your mech. Run your Timber with 2 LPL + 4/5 ERML and just profit. Thank me later

I intend to try pure laser vomit, at some point. For now, I've swapped to a splat build with 4xcSRM6+A and 4xcMPL and will be running that for a while. I miss the bits of free damage, but the hilarious burst is nice.

[The6thMessenger]

Trissila, on 09 September 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

I intend to try pure laser vomit, at some point. For now, I've swapped to a splat build with 4xcSRM6+A and 4xcMPL and will be running that for a while. I miss the bits of free damage, but the hilarious burst is nice.

Lol that build of yours.

[Trissila]

The6thMessenger, on 09 September 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

Lol that build of yours.

Works more than fine to put up 500+ MS rounds at T4 (So did 6 cERMLs and 2 LRM-10s, for that matter). Two or three more matches should put me into T3 and we'll see if that's high enough to force me into more meta builds.

[General Solo]

I don't think efficient kills need a metric becaue efficient kills for the win.

It's not just about damage but also about how many gun's the enemy has online, Dead enemies don't shoot back

Efficiency kills em faster so less guns are shooting at you sooner rather than later

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 September 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Nightbird]

If you're killing efficiently, you'll get a lot more solo kills than a LRM boat, so that's the benefit.

[OmniFail]

Trissila, on 09 September 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

I intend to try pure laser vomit, at some point. For now, I've swapped to a splat build with 4xcSRM6+A and 4xcMPL and will be running that for a while. I miss the bits of free damage, but the hilarious burst is nice.

By the definition of this threads main topic SRMs are bad because they spread damage.

[General Solo]

No, their not bad
just situational

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 10 September 2017 - 01:04 AM.

[Sjorpha]

The6thMessenger, on 09 September 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

Lol that build of yours.

4SRM6A+4MPL Seems like a decent enough build IMO, I assume it's a TW.

I don't think "efficient kill" is necessary to add even if I like the thought behind it, because it is already much more likely to get KMDDs and solo kills by doing efficient damage than by doing inefficient damage.

What I WOULD like to see is an efficiency bonus for winning the match quickly, the quicker you win the larger the bonus is, to encourage more aggression and going for objectives.

This would especially help in Faction Warfare, make the bonus big enough so that ending the game is more lucrative than farming mechs in lopsided games.

Also make sure that in every game mode in FW both sides have an objective based win condition, skirmish is fine in solo queue but it sucks donkeyballs in FW because you have to waste time killing all the potatoes in lopsided matches.

[The6thMessenger]

Trissila, on 09 September 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

Works more than fine to put up 500+ MS rounds at T4 (So did 6 cERMLs and 2 LRM-10s, for that matter). Two or three more matches should put me into T3 and we'll see if that's high enough to force me into more meta builds.

Sjorpha, on 10 September 2017 - 01:57 AM, said:

4SRM6A+4MPL Seems like a decent enough build IMO, I assume it's a TW.

That heat though. You might as well go 6x MPL + 2x SRM6A.

OmniFail, on 09 September 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

By the definition of this threads main topic SRMs are bad because they spread damage.

Until you actually consider that LRMs are homing and require lock, and you can't concentrate on a component, also brawl. SRMs on the other hand, you can shield and then splat, get close and you isolate a component with good aim.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 September 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Trissila]

The6thMessenger, on 10 September 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

That heat though. You might as well go 6x MPL + 2x SRM6A.

It's not so bad. I can alpha twice and then ride the line by switching to just the SRMs.

So I'm not sure how outdated your build repository is (like everything else is when you try to look up community stuff in MWO ), but you appear to suggest 6xcSPL instead of 4xcMPL. 14.4 heat as opposed to the 19 heat, but then I'm also carrying 2 extra heat sinks (I drop a bit of ammo from your design, but I don't really run out of ammo until nearly the end of the round, so.) Given that you suggest using one alpha and then just the missiles until, perhaps, the killshot, I'd say it works out about the same. I enjoy having a bit of extra power and range to poke with and/or if I run out of ammo.

Also worth noting that, for me, the comparison would be against 5 SPLs instead of 6. I've got an S because I find the extra mobility options from the one jumpjet to be incredibly valuable, and at this stage in my MWO career, I'm not dropping ~15 million C-Bills on a mostly-redundant TBR chassis to min-max one build when I could instead spend that on an entirely new 'mech to play with.

[OmniFail]

The6thMessenger, on 08 September 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

Currently, our solo kill as a metric does not really accurately measure the efficiency of the kill. An LRM boat could very well pepper an enemy, damage spread around, and kill it gaining solo kill, but so does an accurate shot on the CT with less damage -- much more efficient kill.

Quote

Until you actually consider that LRMs are homing and require lock, and you can't concentrate on a component, also brawl. SRMs on the other hand, you can shield and then splat, get close and you isolate a component with good aim.

Way to move the goal posts and admit that your real problem is the locks.

Anyway LRM15s have a spread of 5.2 and SRM6s have a spread of 5. So much more efficient......

If you cant handle the locks maybe you should try COD

Edited by OmniFail, 10 September 2017 - 06:33 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

Way to move the goal posts and admit that your real problem is the locks.

You do know that we consider LRMs bad due to multitude of problems, not just it spreading damage right? What, have you been living under a rock?

No this thread is not ripping on the LRMs -- it's a bad weapon already, no need to kick it while it's down. All it ever tries to do is a metric to judge efficient kills, not to tell which weapon system is bad.

RACs spread damage, so does laser, the burst-fire clan ACs, etc. But they are not necessarily bad -- the RAC's bad though -- they're just not that efficient.

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

Anyway LRM15s have a spread of 5.2 and SRM6s have a spread of 5. So much more efficient......

Until you realize that the LRMs are forced to be spread, while you can get closer with SRMs and isolate a component. Needless to say, the LRMs are forced to be inefficient, while the SRMs can be more efficient.

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

If you cant handle the locks maybe you should try COD

If you feel insecure and attacked with people seemingly dissing your favorite weapon, maybe you should get off the internet. It's not a place for people with no thick skin.

[OmniFail]

Whatever bro....

Your whole premises is based on pin point fire is efficient versus spread damage is inefficient. But then you claim SRM fire is efficient. Which by your definition it shouldn't be. None the less it still spreads damage across several components even at 20 meters (shot blocking face tanking distance). Then when challenged about it you changed your argument to efficiency is the ability to target a component. Then to deter further from your argument you tried to gaslight me saying I'm just upset and I'm taking it personally.

I'm not mad bro. I know the pros and cons of LRMs. I have launched 5,000,000 of them in the last year and I'm comfortable with my numbers and I feel that the metrics that we use now, while not perfect, are accurate.

I think the lurms have given you the PTSDs so bad you can't think straight.

[The6thMessenger]

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Your whole premises is based on pin point fire is efficient versus spread damage is inefficient. But then you claim SRM fire is efficient. Which by your definition it shouldn't be. None the less it still spreads damage across several components even at 20 meters (shot blocking face tanking distance). Then when challenged about it you changed your argument to efficiency is the ability to target a component.

To be fair, the idea did centered around doing CT damage -- a component isolated.

Wrong. What I explained is that the SRM has the capacity to be more efficient versus LRMs. Also I by any means did not asserted that there's only a dichotomy of efficient-inefficient. It would be more accurate to say that weapons do have different degrees of efficiency -- after all i said "more" for the SRM. The award merely requires a certain amount of degree of efficiency to trigger.

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Then to deter further from your argument you tried to gaslight me saying I'm just upset and I'm taking it personally.

OmniFail, on 08 September 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

Sorry to hear about your numbers bro. I'm sure if you really think about it some more you will be able to spin them in such a way that you appear to be as efficient as a lurm boat.

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

If you cant handle the locks maybe you should try COD

Yup. Totally not personal. *sarcasm

OmniFail, on 10 September 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

I'm not mad bro. I know the pros and cons of LRMs. I have launched 5,000,000 of them in the last year and I'm comfortable with my numbers and I feel that the metrics that we use now, while not perfect, are accurate.

I think the lurms have given you the PTSDs so bad you can't think straight.

From the words of a wise bird: gubba nub nub doo rah kah

Means "Whatever lets you sleep at night". Good night.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2017 - 11:08 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 08 September 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

I find the very term "efficient kill" offensive, since in implies some kills are better than others while actually stating that killing with direct fire weapons is more worthy than killing with LRMs.. A kill is a kill.

So let me quote Dominic Toretto here, I think it applies:

"It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning."

To be fair, killing people immediately is better than killing people when they already dealt their damage. Being an LRM has nothing to do with it, if you feel personally attacked just because i indirectly criticized your favorite weapon system, you shouldn't be in the internet.

Since we're playing quotes on the table, here's mine.

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ******* what." by Stephen Fry

"If someone corrects you, and you feel offended, then you have an ego problem." by Nouman Ali Khan

“I speak my mind. If it offends some people, well, there's not much I can do about that. But I'm going to be honest. I'm going to continue to speak my mind, and that's who I am...” by Jesse Ventura

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 September 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[Vellron2005]

The6thMessenger, on 10 September 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

Since we're playing quotes on the table, here's mine.

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ******* what." by Stephen Fry

"If someone corrects you, and you feel offended, then you have an ego problem." by Nouman Ali Khan

“I speak my mind. If it offends some people, well, there's not much I can do about that. But I'm going to be honest. I'm going to continue to speak my mind, and that's who I am...” by Jesse Ventura

Posting quotes of people who don't care about offending other people doesn't make offending someone ok. I'm all for speaking your mind. But such liberties shouldn't go at someone else's expense. If it did, then we can just throw good manners out the window, and call eachother all sorts of unsavory names, and devolve down to anarchy and savagery.

Also, if "me getting offended doesn't give me any rights", then why do you think just saying whatever you feel like is your right? It's not. I mean, it is, sure, freedom of speech and all that, but civilized people have a name for such individuals.

I could then write what I really think of your "efficient kill", but since that would be contrary to the COC, I will only say I find the term offensive.

And by the way, like I knew you would, you completely missed my point, which also speaks volumes in itself..

Edited by Vellron2005, 11 September 2017 - 01:13 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

The6thMessenger, on 10 September 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

“I speak my mind. If it offends some people, well, there's not much I can do about that. But I'm going to be honest. I'm going to continue to speak my mind, and that's who I am...” by Jesse Ventura every good sociopath

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 11 September 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

Posting quotes of people who don't care about offending other people doesn't make offending someone ok. I'm all for speaking your mind. But such liberties shouldn't go at someone else's expense. If it did, then we can just throw good manners out the window, and call eachother all sorts of unsavory names, and devolve down to anarchy and savagery.

Also, if "me getting offended doesn't give me any rights", then why do you think just saying whatever you feel like is your right? It's not. I mean, it is, sure, freedom of speech and all that, but civilized people have a name for such individuals.

It's not "any rights", it's "certain rights". "Certain Rights" in a sense of unfounded power such as shutting people up just because their criticism offends them. Or some offended person's ill-informed opinion would be deserving of consideration as one that of a well-informed opinion, just because they are offended -- and at extreme cases throwing a tantrum too.

Here's the thing, there's a difference between going after people such as slander and libel, or just pure bullying, and then just merely throwing an Idea or stating a truth or criticsm to engage in discussion.

Calling people names is not of the same foundation as throwing good manners away. So what if good manners are thrown off? We can still have a discussion and deliberate on the truth or what is the rational course of action, it's simply chaotic to do so and unattractive to look at. Calling people names on the purpose to hurt them isn't similar, it does not further the discussion.

Saying "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries." classy as ****, is different to "Islam is a motherlode of bad ideas, and needs reform.".

You say that as if we, the politically incorrect (not all) just say things to stir people and hurt their feelings, but that's not the case at all. We filter out emotion as much as we possibly could to be as rational and objective as we can be, and hopefully the discussion in turn. Unfortunately we get people who are easily offended as if they got a degree in Finding Offense, people really just want to play the victims in this time.

I don't care about what said "civilized" people think, they can live on their own little circle jerk safe-space while the rest of us actually get on with the real world, stick our hands on the mud and dare to change the world for the better. Call it "savagery" if you want, but this gentrification of words gets us nowhere, could even put us a step back.

Vellron2005, on 11 September 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

I could then write what I really think of your "efficient kill", but since that would be contrary to the COC, I will only say I find the term offensive.

Go right ahead, I'm not that thin-skinned. The site auto-filters too so go crazy.

Vellron2005, on 11 September 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

And by the way, like I knew you would, you completely missed my point, which also speaks volumes in itself..

Really? You mean to tell me that the one i quoted too isn't really telling that what is important is the kill? and i quote, "A kill is a kill".

Or maybe you meant that a post as a whole, you disapprove of another reward that encourages precise shots? That you think that this "Efficient Kill" is just another way to gloat, and is not needed.

Then please do spell it out, you must've been that good of an author to put subtle meanings. Next you'll tell me, the blue curtains means sadness.

You know what else speaks volumes in itself? You being triggered about the indirect criticsm of LRMs.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 September 2017 - 02:07 AM.