93 replies to this topic

[Escef]

James Argent, on 09 September 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

I've had 1200+ damage games in my streak-Dog, because empty arms mean I can bring enough ammo.

But not enough cooling. And 1200+ damage with Streaks means even less than it does with LRMs. You're a walking sandblaster.

[James Argent]

You: "You don't do enough damage with SSRMs. I can get to 1K with splats."
Me: "I can get to 1.2K with SSRMs."
You: "Damage isn't important."

Cool story, bro.

[Escef]

James Argent, on 09 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

You: "You don't do enough damage with SSRMs. I can get to 1K with splats."
Me: "I can get to 1.2K with SSRMs."
You: "Damage isn't important."

Cool story, bro.

Well, if you want to misrepresent people, cool.

I mean, first off, I was talking about ammo needs.

Secondly, "splat" is far more concentrated than Streaks.

Third, high damage numbers with sandblaster weapons (Streaks and LRMs) are not impressive. I DID NOT say they don't matter, just that they aren't impressive.

So, go ahead and lie some more.

[MadRover]

MischiefSC, on 09 September 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

they won't want to change that because the real issue is that the game richly rewards you for spending real money. What it really needs to do is dial up base pay a bit and premium + hero a bit dialed down.... but that's unlikely to happen.

This is exactly whats wrong with the economy. If every new mech that comes out starts as c bill purchases only, with the exception of premium mechs (hero and champion), the economy of the game will actually be a lot better because people have to spend credits to play the mech. This is how F2P with microtransactions should work. The way PGI has it all set up is that if you throw money at the screen, you will technically be able to do better. This starts a premium power creep and makes the game go from F2P to a practical P2P game with microtransactions.

WG has suffered a lot (and a serious amount of backlash as well) due to premium power creep I.E. overpowered premium tanks that are used for stat padding. Now while PGI hasn't exactly gone down that road, they are currently in the same boat as WG and are also suffering the exact same effects of WG's premium power creep. In other words, someone is going to get real angry and most likely start a big controversy to something similar to SirFoch's (WoT youtuber and twitch stream) "rant" (if you can call it that. More like bashing WG) on YouTube or whatever.

What PGI needs to do is make new mechs available for c-bills right off the bat and make hero and champion mechs cost real money. They will still make enough money off of premium time, premium mechs, and mech decos. However, if PGI wants to continue following the practical P2P system that they have going, the in game economy will remain one of the most generous systems in existence and the idea that the game is P2W is going to remain a very hot topic.

Edited by MadRover, 09 September 2017 - 01:25 PM.

[AJBennett]

TheTrueQuarian, on 08 September 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

Im starting to regret picking clan as my faction because of the absurd prices for clan mechs. 6-8 million for a light mech is crazy, and thats not even counting the equipment and SP you need. Why are they all so expensive?

...nope, try upgrading an IS Mech with Endo, XL or LT engines, DBL HS. Ferro or Light Ferro Armor...etc...etc...etc to be remotely competitive, OR buying one that already has those included and you'll find the cost comparable to Clan Mechs.

Edited by AJBennet, 09 September 2017 - 01:31 PM.

[James Argent]

Escef...what, precisely, is the lie here? You were talking about ammo needs, so I posted what I can accomplish with the extra ammo I bring using the metric you chose. Only after I accepted your terms did this metric suddenly fall out of favor.

Surprisingly enough, the only reason anyone ever runs out of ammo is because they don't bring enough. You don't always have to fix that by using tonnage on things other than ammo. Besides, SSRMs and SRMs have entirely different ammunition requirements. Unless I hit terrain (or an unfortunate teammate, which sometimes happens to both builds), every one of the missiles I shoot is going to land. Your 'tighter groups' still have some of the missiles miss entirely, not to even mention that you can miss ALL of some salvoes. The tradeoffs are the aforementioned higher spread, a longer cooldown and increased heat (which is somewhat offset by the longer cooldown). They're also going to be effective (read: hit at all) against an erratically moving target at a much longer range than SRMs are.

If you want to have a discussion about the utility of SRMs vs. SSRMs toward winning games, we can certainly do that. It would have helped if you hadn't first relied on raw damage for your metric, if that was the case. I don't bring SSRMs for the express purpose of battling against splat-Dogs, which I have done and have both won and lost. I bring them for the deterrence/destruction of lights. In the correct circumstances my streak-Dog can remove its own weight from the enemy team in three alphas. Most of the time it takes more, but no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. When I hit 1.2K damage, I've already long been done with my primary job on the team and the damage is merely an afterthought.

Certainly, when some light faces me up in a stealth armor build or with multiple ECMs surrounding it, I wish I had some direct fire weapons. But no single mech can do everything perfectly...that's what staying with your team is for.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Quote

Surprisingly enough, the only reason anyone ever runs out of ammo is because they don't bring enough. You don't always have to fix that by using tonnage on things other than ammo. Besides, SSRMs and SRMs have entirely different ammunition requirements.

We are getting a bit drifted but that's of course correct and valid. Most of the time, spesially for ammo dependable mech, you should not run out.

Sometimes, you can still run out of ammo, if the enemy team is weak to attack and you are able to survive longer than usual, that you are able to run out the small but significant buffer of extra ammo.

[chucklesMuch]

TheTrueQuarian, on 08 September 2017 - 04:08 AM, said:

The only mech i have right now is a locust with eveything but an XL engine. I feel like im doing what im sopposed to be doing, spotting, poking with my laser, and trying to finish stripped mechs with my MGs but i usually end up doing no damage and then getting instagibbed by the person i was trying to kill.

Yeah lights simply melt when faced by anybody who can aim and despite random outcry threads about them. They are the worst performing class.

If you aren't wanting to spend real monies then starting a new account and picking a clan heavy would probably be far less frustrating, easier earn cbills. The QP queue, outside of events normally has heavies at 40% for a reason.

Your account with locust could be your IS account, and your new one your clan account.

[Escef]

James Argent, on 09 September 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Escef...what, precisely, is the lie here?

That would be you misrepresenting me. Good day.

[Methanoid]

TheTrueQuarian, on 08 September 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

Im starting to regret picking clan as my faction because of the absurd prices for clan mechs. 6-8 million for a light mech is crazy, and thats not even counting the equipment and SP you need. Why are they all so expensive?

omnipods is why, after you buy that 1 single clan mech, you can just buy cheap as chips omnipods on any part you like to get any setup you like without buying a whole new mech.

any increase in base price for a center torso clan mech is worth it, its not like anyone/many actually bother with a 8/8 omnipod bonus so any old chassis/parts will do.

[James Argent]

Escef, in no way did I misrepresent what you posted. You bragged on your damage while saying I don't have the tonnage to bring sufficient ammunition to do the same. I posted that without devoting tonnage to energy weapons I could do more than that. Then you moved the goalposts to say that my greater damage wasn't impressive. I never claimed it was impressive, just that it was higher than that which YOU seemed to think was impressive enough about which to post. I even went on to discuss what you moved the goalposts to include, and in return all you post is NaCl.

Good day, indeed.

[Lykaon]

James Argent, on 09 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

You: "You don't do enough damage with SSRMs. I can get to 1K with splats."
Me: "I can get to 1.2K with SSRMs."
You: "Damage isn't important."

Cool story, bro.

1k damage applied to an aimed target area (something normal SRMs can do) will ALWAYS be more valuable damage than 20% more damage that can not ever be focused or aimed.

Scenario...

Your Maddog rounds a corner and you see a heavy enemy mech with yellow armor all over but 2 open leg components....

Use SRMs and you blow it's legs off in one or two volleys

SSRMs ... RNG gods are in control...will you get enough leg hits ? how many volleys? will you run out of ammo? will you over heat first? will he kill you first? who knows?

Edited by Lykaon, 10 September 2017 - 02:47 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Reading through-

I tend towards the "best of both worlds"- my favorites are Clan Battlemechs, rather than Omnimechs. But yes, there's no getting away from cost- cheaper generally means "fixer-upper", not "economical" in MWO.

Why Battlemechs rather than Omnis? Because I can tweak the chassis as needed, and most importantly, I can pull engines from one to another machine. Upgraded from a Highlander IIC to a Supernova? That 325XL went right from one to the other.

As for Locusts? There's a reason one of the earliest stories in Battletech is basically "Locust pilots are crazy.".

As a starter, you cranked your difficulty meter up to 11, as you are now in a robot that like sharks, will generally die if it stops moving. No, really. Even killing something crippled, you should be at the least orbiting it at 100+ kph like some kind of laser-spewing electron of death. Is the target significantly armored? Save it for later, put a volley into it and keep going. Troll everything, and at least you're picking up assists on anything you hit. Distraction is your game until there is nothing for you to distract people from. Zip out early, cycle through the enemy with your R key for some scouting bonuses. If you see the LRM types going after someone, zoom around and keep it locked for spotting bonus money, and if you're lucky, you may even vulture the kill or can tear off a weakened section.

You are, built properly one of the smallest, fastest things to target in the game. You are all evasion and near zero damage tolerance with barely enough guns to be a modest threat to anything but already damaged opponents unless you can invest lots of time on a single target (in which case, his buddies will attempt to shoot you).

Don't use TAG. TAG only works well if you can stand there with your laser pointer, which also says "SHOOT ME HERE". This is unhealthy for the Locust.

DO develop a habit of looking for weakness. If it's smoking, it's an opportunity, especially if it's clearly trying to get out of the line of fire. These pilots cannot easily escape you. Gnaw on them for the sweet, sweet money of destroyed components,kills, and assists.

[James Argent]

Lykaon, while that is true, I was responding to the actual words that Escef posted. His inability to post what he actually means to say has led to him collecting an excessive amount of desalinization station waste product in his apparent primary girly part.

Further, for every bit of whataboutery you can engage in, I have counter examples. I posted that heavies are not my primary targets. You are correct that I am unable to aim at a leg. That's not my role in the game. But I can effectively engage a target out to 400 meters, and that is not the role of SRM boats. All SRM boats will fail to connect with meaningful damage at maximum range (if they hit at all) because their spread isn't limited to just which component it hits, while I am assured at least of applying all of my missiles somewhere on the target. Also, in 'death circle' situations, when SRM mechs with their reduced spread and ability to aim at legs are struggling to face their dumbfire tubes at the circling target, I can get locks using the arm reticule and hit the target while I'm still facing the other direction.

Role warfare...learn it, live it. I try to avoid situations where I have to round corners into heavy mechs which need legs removed. It doesn't always work out that way, but that's warfare/gaming. I try to engage targets I can one- to three-shot at the best range for my weapon system (oh wait...that's its entire usable range). When I'm finished with 'Boom boom, out go the lights' it doesn't matter if I leg a heavy or he ends up killing me. That's not my primary role. But I do end up killing enough heavies and assaults to not worry so much about the times I don't.

'Sandblaster' and other dismissive jibes only betray a lack of understanding of the weapon system's role and the entire concept of combined arms.