41 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

executioner vs cyclops/mauler

Those mechs have completely different roles, and congrats you compared one of the worst Clan assaults to 2 of the best IS assaults.

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

direwolf vs annihilator/king crab

Dire and Anni do different things, though I suppose the 5UAC5 annihilator is probably a bit better due to the insane durability, however, I prefer Gauss Vomit, and the Dire has the most powerful Gauss Vomit loadout in the game. Again though, you can't compare a high tier IS assault to a mid tier Clan assault, that's not how Clan vs IS balance works. Dire is hands down better than the King Crab.

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

And a ride humping battle master can easily outsnipe a warhawk because the warhawk has low mounted guns. Ever tried ridge humping with a warhawk? By the time your guns are clear to fire, you are taking fire from 4+ mechs. And your bad hitboxes pretty much means your side torso goes first.

L2Warhawk. Warhawk-C is hands down better than a BLR, especially when talking about sniping. I think I would even take a 6 ER LL SNV-1 over a BLR for sniping.

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Explain to me how a warhammer/grasshopper could possibly lose to a mad dog for example?

I think they should make the tonnage equal for now to see how things go for a while, its not a good way to balance anyway. Balance is the best way to balance. But easy, the Mad Dog has 6 SRM6 w/Artemis and closes to brawling range using cover. GGEZ.

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Or a black knight/marauder vs an EBJ

Uhh 66 damage at 450meters is pretty nice when you want to sit back and trade. The Marauder-3R is pretty solid with PPCs and UAC5s IMO, that's probably the closest comparison you have mentioned so far (but ton for ton, Gauss vomit Night Gyr is hard to beat).

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Unless you are eating massive laser vomit outside your range, you really have no reason to lose to a clan mech that is lighter than you by 10 tons. Its practically impossible. I love going up against clan mechs in QP with my IS mechs...i am pretty much guaranteed to win. Its not even a contest really, give the massive disparity in durabiliy and near total lack of PPFLD on the clan side. Its always funny seeing an EBJ round the corner and fire off a long duration laser alpha, only to run because their side torso armor is now red. That extra 10 kph literally does NOTHING to prevent you from taking damage, while an extra 30 or so CT armor + better hitboxes is massive. Feel free to shoot my shield arms from the side, while i can shoot your massive side torso whenever i want.

Still talking about tons? Faction play is not really what we are talking about here. But yeah the "super long duration" is way overplayed, its really not that long when you factor in reaction time and latency.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 September 2017 - 04:03 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jun Watarase, on 13 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Most clan mechs have hard locked engines/JJs/other useless stuff like MASC making them actually worse off than the "inferior" IS mechs. To top it off, many IS mechs are actually more agile than clan mechs (look at the cyclop's turn rate for example). Clan mechs usually have worse hitboxes to boot, with no shield arms.

With very, veryfew exceptions, those Clan Omnis Mechs running locked equipment can still fit equivalent or superior payloads to their IS BattleMech counterparts. Even a Clan Omni with three (three!) energy hardpoints (SHC) is better than an IS BattleMech with eight (BJ-1X) because, for the same total weight, one of them gets to jump, carry ECM, and deal 41 points of damage from a greater distance away while being capable of bursting to faster speeds and near-enough base running speed. Oh, and it doesn't die when one side gets inevitably vaporized.

As for no shield arms, the MLX, EXE, NTG, HBR, KDK, GAR, SHC, NVA, SMN, ON1-IIC, HGN-IIC, and even the MAD-IIC would all like to have a word with you. Some of those have arms that shield too well.

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Whenever people claim clan mechs are superior, they always ignore matchups like the executioner vs cyclops/mauler, direwolf vs annihilator/king crab, viper vs assassin, etc. And a ride humping battle master can easily outsnipe a warhawk because the warhawk has low mounted guns. Ever tried ridge humping with a warhawk? By the time your guns are clear to fire, you are taking fire from 4+ mechs. And your bad hitboxes pretty much means your side torso goes first.

You mean they don't compare the best 'Mech of one faction to a mediocre 'Mech from another? Jee, I wonder why...

Also, do you even snipe? ERLL fighting, executed properly, is about exposing first and remaining exposed to punish enemies for trying to expose. You take that Warhawk, you take your friends, and you sit on that hill 900+ meters away, and you fire. Endlessly. For days. You don't let the enemy peek without getting plastered with blue.

A 'Mech in cover is a useless 'Mech.

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And with the tonnage advantage in FP, i find it very hard to believe that any decent player could possibly lose to a clan mech 10-15 tons lighter. Explain to me how a warhammer/grasshopper could possibly lose to a mad dog for example? Or a black knight/marauder vs an EBJ, where the CT can be hit from the sides and no amount of torso twisting stops someone from focusing 100% of their damage just by aiming at the top mounted guns, which are basically like the ears on a catapault?

Alright, here's how:

The meta Clan vomit alphas do between 66 and 78 points of damage. Your meta IS vomit alpha does 50-52. The torso yaw range on a BLR-1G is 60 degrees (like a Kodiak) and twists at 81 degrees/sec. You are already exposed; the Battlemaster exposes to you. You fire at his side torso. It takes a moment for him to react to the shot, and it takes more than a second to rotate that side torso to 90 degrees since it requires footwork, too. Your burn is only 1.39 seconds using the worst-case weapon, the Heavy Large Laser. If you are good at holding a laser burn, and at T1 you ought to be by now, you've ripped 71-78 damage into his side torso, stripping it of all armor. The next shot will kill or cripple him.

That's one shot from your 65 ton Clan Heavy. Yeah, he may or may not have done the same to you in that exchange, but that's your Heavy taking fire from an Assault and him getting knocked out is worse for his team than you getting knocked out is for yours. And this compounds in other ways. That IS 'Mech has terribad heat efficiency for his firepower, and he still has to contend with Clan Assaults...which hit even harder.

I mean, really, a single shot from an MC-II or even a MAD-IIC can open up the center torso of a 75 ton 'Mech and almost completely destroy the side. There are zero IS builds which have that potential outside of brawl range, and the Clan brawlers are even nastier.

And that, my friend, is why IS 'Mechs have better agility and durability quirks. Because they sure aren't going to win on firepower and even the Heavies would be as vulnerable as a Kitfox without them.