68 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

I must admit i had ulterior motives for proposing this contest. This thread was simply to illustrate the imbalance between Clan Streaks and Inner Sphere streaks. I understand that there are better weapons and streaks are a niche weapon used almost exclusively for light hunting.

As a balance issue i think we can all agree that streaks are not even close and deserves some balance adjustments to bring them closer to parity. Clans have a huge advantage on streaks.

[Daurock]

Racerxintegra2k, on 11 September 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

I must admit i had ulterior motives for proposing this contest. This thread was simply to illustrate the imbalance between Clan Streaks and Inner Sphere streaks. I understand that there are better weapons and streaks are a niche weapon used almost exclusively for light hunting.

As a balance issue i think we can all agree that streaks are not even close and deserves some balance adjustments to bring them closer to parity. Clans have a huge advantage on streaks.

While I'm in agreement that there are plenty of areas where IS Tech is flatly inferior, i'm not entirely sold that Streaks (and SRMs in general) are one of therm.
For Example - Compare the Clan Streak 6 with the IS Streak 4.  Both weigh the same 3 tons.  The Clan streak does get an extra 50% Alpha, but when you look at its reload vs. the IS version, the clan streak has double the reload time.  This results in a 30% DPS loss Vs. the IS version.  The more heavily Perked IS chassis can make this difference even larger.  
At least to me, streaks are very much a brawling weapon, where DPS is valued much more highly than alpha.  (My opinion on streaks is that they are just about the worst "poke" weapon in the game.)  If I had a mix tech mech, where i could mount either streak on my mech, I'd more than likely take the IS Streak 4 over the clan Streak 6.
Bottom Line - The main reason that IS mechs often fall behind their clan counterparts is more often than not due to more basic faults than weaponry. (Engine tech, Endo/Ferro challenges, and Heatsink size)

Edited by Daurock, 11 September 2017 - 11:54 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Racerxintegra2k, on 11 September 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

I must admit i had ulterior motives for proposing this contest. This thread was simply to illustrate the imbalance between Clan Streaks and Inner Sphere streaks. I understand that there are better weapons and streaks are a niche weapon used almost exclusively for light hunting.

As a balance issue i think we can all agree that streaks are not even close and deserves some balance adjustments to bring them closer to parity. Clans have a huge advantage on streaks.

hahaha dude get real. Would you rather have to boat a bunch of weapons to be effective, or carry fewer but more efficient ones. Honestly expected more out of you Racer.
Hey look, it's another one of those ulterior motive disingenuous threads about IS vs Clan balance. Surprise surprise, never seen one of these on here before.

[Alex Morgaine]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2a50a9cd55c0588

closest I could to have a decent match. 5 streak 6s, BAP, decent engine and some DHS.

Racerxintegra2k, on 11 September 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

I must admit i had ulterior motives for proposing this contest. This thread was simply to illustrate the imbalance between Clan Streaks and Inner Sphere streaks. I understand that there are better weapons and streaks are a niche weapon used almost exclusively for light hunting.

As a balance issue i think we can all agree that streaks are not even close and deserves some balance adjustments to bring them closer to parity. Clans have a huge advantage on streaks.

yeah figured that was the reasoning.

TBF the streak archer I'm using has 2 x6's, 2 x4's, and a 2, and yes, its more a brawler. it has some laser support too, but mostly as a "ran out of ammo" situation.

[N0ni]

CP-10-Q

Trades roughly 30 kph for much better armor and a couple extra streaks (with more ammo).

[Racerxintegra2k]

Daurock, on 11 September 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

While I'm in agreement that there are plenty of areas where IS Tech is flatly inferior, i'm not entirely sold that Streaks (and SRMs in general) are one of therm.
For Example - Compare the Clan Streak 6 with the IS Streak 4. Both weigh the same 3 tons. The Clan streak does get an extra 50% Alpha, but when you look at its reload vs. the IS version, the clan streak has double the reload time. This results in a 30% DPS loss Vs. the IS version. The more heavily Perked IS chassis can make this difference even larger.
At least to me, streaks are very much a brawling weapon, where DPS is valued much more highly than alpha. (My opinion on streaks is that they are just about the worst "poke" weapon in the game.) If I had a mix tech mech, where i could mount either streak on my mech, I'd more than likely take the IS Streak 4 over the clan Streak 6.
Bottom Line - The main reason that IS mechs often fall behind their clan counterparts is more often than not due to more basic faults than weaponry. (Engine tech, Endo/Ferro challenges, and Heatsink size)

360 meter range vs 270 Meters ... when hunting lights that's huge.

[Racerxintegra2k]

JackalBeast, on 11 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

hahaha dude get real. Would you rather have to boat a bunch of weapons to be effective, or carry fewer but more efficient ones. Honestly expected more out of you Racer.
Hey look, it's another one of those ulterior motive disingenuous threads about IS vs Clan balance. Surprise surprise, never seen one of these on here before.

Brother your going to have to explain yourself. Everyone with a clan icon under there name that's posted in this thread has given many excuses right down to streaks are inferior to other things to dodge the facts.

I have a clan alt account, its a non comparison streak boating on the clan side shuts down light mechs. Streak boating on IS side means lights run away and your left holding your **** trying to catch up so you can fire a 2nd time. 360m vs 270m alone is a huge difference. Never mind that you cant take nearly the same amount of equipment or that you die when side torso'd.

[jss78]

I haven't tried a pure streak boat, nor do I expect to.

But I've rather enjoyed my Golden Boy with a mixed SSRM+SRM+MPL loadout, something like GOLDEN BOY.

I used to really hate that 'mech because the missiles distributed between arms and torso were so awkward. Now that I can pack regular SRM's in arms and SSRM's in torso I really like it.

[Agent1190]

Bushwacker: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...30cadf5496cbd2d

It's tough - you pretty much go XL and risk a side torso death just to get the firepower and speed of a Stormcrow.

[Jackal Noble]

[Jackal Noble]

[Jackal Noble]

C-SSRM 6 cooldown - 6 seconds
IS-SSRM 6 cooldown - 4 seconds

2 IS salvos per 1 Clan over 8 seconds
3 IS salvos per 2 Clan over 12 seconds
4 IS salvos per 2 Clan over 16 seconds
5 IS salvos per 3 Clan over 20 seconds

C-SSRM 4 cooldown - 4.5 seconds
IS-SSRM 4 cooldown - 3 seconds

2 IS salvos per 1 Clan salvo over 6 seconds
3 IS salvos per 2 Clan salvos over 9 seconds
4 IS Salvos per 2 Clan salvos over 12 seconds
5 IS Salvos per 3 Clan Salvos over 15 seconds

[Clownwarlord]

KTO-18 - Inner Sphere Streak Crow

Mind you it does only go 79.5 kph but add in speed tweak it can keep up with un-speed tweaked streak crows. It also has 2 energy hard points because unlike the clan crow which is an omni mech this is not (actually no current IS omni is in game).

It runs streak 4s for more ammo and better weight, better re-cycle rate, and better heat than streak 6s. Also 2 er mediums for surgery work.

[Jackal Noble]

(Ghost heat is set to 3. but for the sake of it let's ignore Ghost heat.)
5 C-SSRM6 = 60 damage.
4 IS-SSRM6 = 48 damage

INITIAL FIRING SEQUENCE
1A. C = 60 DAMAGE
1B. IS = 48 DAMAGE

4 SECONDS
2A. C = 60 DAMAGE
2B IS = 96 DAMAGE

6 SECONDS.
3A. C = 120 DAMAGE
3B IS = 96 DAMAGE

8 SECONDS
4A. C = 120 DAMAGE
4B IS = 144 DAMAGE

12 SECONDS
5A. C = 180 DAMAGE
5B IS = 192 DAMAGE

16 SECONDS
6A. C = 180 DAMAGE
6B IS = 240 DAMAGE

18 SECONDS
7A. C = 240 DAMAGE
7B IS = 240 DAMAGE

20 SECONDS
8A. C = 240 DAMAGE
8B IS = 288 DAMAGE

Edited by JackalBeast, 11 September 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Racerxintegra2k, on 11 September 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Brother your going to have to explain yourself. Everyone with a clan icon under there name that's posted in this thread has given many excuses right down to streaks are inferior to other things to dodge the facts.

I have a clan alt account, its a non comparison streak boating on the clan side shuts down light mechs. Streak boating on IS side means lights run away and your left holding your **** trying to catch up so you can fire a 2nd time. 360m vs 270m alone is a huge difference. Never mind that you cant take nearly the same amount of equipment or that you die when side torso'd.

None of the Clan Lights can run away from the Streak-12 Assassin-23. That's 10 DPS guaranteed to savage squishy arms that contain 80% of the firepower.

[Jackal Noble]

seem quite hot, but have to factor in that it is firing at a faster rate. I own the bushie, not the griffin.

Edited by JackalBeast, 11 September 2017 - 06:33 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

alright, now for a crazy sauce comparison

5 C-SSRM6 = 60 damage (Personally I would add a narc, and shoot the streaks 2x2)
6 IS SSRM4 = 48 damage

6 second cooldown vs 3 second

*Again, ignoring ghost heat for sake of illustration

Initial Salvo

1A. C = 60 damage
1B IS = 48 damage

3 seconds
2A C = 60 damage
2B IS = 96 damage

6 seconds
3A C = 120 damage
3B IS = 144 damage

9 seconds
4A C = 120 damage
4B IS = 192 damage

12 seconds
5A C = 180 damage
5B IS = 240 damage

15 seconds
6A C = 180 damage
6B IS = 288 damage

18 seconds
7A C = 240 damage
7B IS = 336 damage

[SeventhSL]

It is a bit of a loaded question for a couple of reasons.

1. IS gets a tonnage advantage so you need to compare a Storm Crow to an IS mech which is 5 tons heavier. As soon as you do that you will go up a class and trade agility for hit points. At that point it is not really an equal comparison and more a matter of player preference.

2. IS and Clan Streaks work differently. 2 IS launchers do the DPS of 3 equivalent clan launchers but for less weight and slots. That said the clan launchers have the advantage of range and alpha. Which is better? Players will have their own preference but it mostly depends on changing circumstances like terrain.

3. Streaks are a niche weapon system. They are only good against lighter mechs when you can't shoot other weapon systems more accurately (low skill, lag, ect).

If you want to compare IS to Clan tech it would be better to compare a 50 ton Clan mech to a 55 ton IS mech. This way both mechs are in the same class and will square off against each other in FP.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 11 September 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

alright, now for a crazy sauce comparison

5 C-SSRM6 = 60 damage (Personally I would add a narc, and shoot the streaks 2x2)
6 IS SSRM4 = 48 damage

6 second cooldown vs 3 second

*Again, ignoring ghost heat for sake of illustration

Initial Salvo

1A. C = 60 damage
1B IS = 48 damage

3 seconds
2A C = 60 damage
2B IS = 96 damage

6 seconds
3A C = 120 damage
3B IS = 144 damage

9 seconds
4A C = 120 damage
4B IS = 192 damage

12 seconds
5A C = 180 damage
5B IS = 240 damage

15 seconds
6A C = 180 damage
6B IS = 288 damage

18 seconds
7A C = 240 damage
7B IS = 336 damage

Worth pointing out that you can fire the Clan salvo about 100 meters sooner, so it really works out closer to 300C/336IS Because the C boat will fire, try to evade a bit to extend the time until range, and then the slugging starts.

[Jackal Noble]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 September 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

Worth pointing out that you can fire the Clan salvo about 100 meters sooner, so it really works out closer to 300C/336IS Because the C boat will fire, try to evade a bit to extend the time until range, and then the slugging starts.

Agreed. That right there helps to show that there is a dynamic involved with the aspects of these weapon systems.