28 replies to this topic

[Trissila]

The_Dane, on 12 September 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

I run a Kitfox triple AMS support build and 4 tons of ammo. I recall a match in Polar Highlands where my mech was responsible for 986 missiles being destroyed. That's 986 missiles that didn't strike my teammates.

Other matches are not so spectacular, but it depends on if the missiles are blackening the sky or no.

No, that's 986 missiles that were destroyed. You have no way of knowing whether or not they were going to hit your teammates. Good on you for providing some support, and surely some portion of those missiles were legitimate threats. But just because a missile is in flight and gets destroyed by your AMS, does not mean that missile was actually dangerous to your team.

Missiles get fired without actually hitting the target all the time. Unless you've made an egregious positioning error, you can quite easily break LoS with the launcher, and unless it was a very gutsy launcher firing at less than 300 meters (which is almost never the case with lurmslugs), those missiles will lose track and uselessly impact the terrain you were occupying just after you went behind cover (you did keep moving, right?) Or the missiles will hit a tall rock that you moved behind, even if they still have lock, because their trajectory does not re-correct for sudden substantial changes in firing arc geometry.

This, ultimately, is the thing about AMS. It's a nice emergency buffer, yeah, but much like LRMs themselves, its usefulness is inversely related to the skill level of the match. The better your team is, the less AMS is needed or even helpful, as they can do most of the work of dumping off missiles themselves. In running a Timberwolf -- a fairly large Heavy 'mech with no ECM and no AMS -- I can count on one hand the number of times I actually get hit by an LRM each night. And even there, some of those hits are 'gimmes', where I pushed much further out of cover than was tactically-sound just to get in a bit more damage, figuring on the trade being worth eating 15~20 points of spread damage.

[Foxwalker]

Athom83, on 12 September 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

Then you never seen what a team on FW that is full of 2+ AMS assaults can do against a team composed primarily of missile boats (ATMs/LRMs).

Both examples sited to me were in group queues. Solo seems a bit different. Still, it is my personal experience. If I am targeted by a missile monster, an AMS feels like carrying a cocktail umbrella in a monsoon.

[ThundrGod]

One thing to bear in mind is the tier level. The lower tiers are chock full of not only LRM boats but lots of builds carrying a couple of launchers along with their main weapons. At tier 5 and 4 it never stops raining.

[Athom83]

Foxwalker, on 12 September 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Both examples sited to me were in group queues. Solo seems a bit different. Still, it is my personal experience. If I am targeted by a missile monster, an AMS feels like carrying a cocktail umbrella in a monsoon.

The time I experianced what I said was a solo match. We all just saw it was a LRM favoring map so we all took faster assaults with 2+ AMS. We all stuck together and kept the majority of the incoming missiles from ever hitting any of us (we did still lose 1-2 here and there). When we were finally able to get in close, they didn't have enough direct firepower to deal with us. It was more of a parade of beach umbrellas during a heavier storm. It didn't keep ALL damage from us, just enough so we didn't instantly disintegrate from the weight of a bunch of LRM80 clan mechs.

[Ruar]

Someone once pointed out in a discussion about AMS that it saves a ton or two of armor in a fight. It's one of the cheapest defensive additions you can add to your mech. I'd rather have 1.5 tons of AMS and ammo than an extra heat sink and a second JJ because it helps me stay in the fight longer.

There are some fights where the AMS doesn't get used that much, and some where I burn through all my ammo and the fight keeps going. In either case it's helping me, or my team, live longer and that is enough for me.

[Brain Cancer]

AMS is enough that three of them will basically neuter most Clan LRM carriers short of dumping 60+ missiles at once towards a target.

I had a fight on Crimson where a KFX in a tunnel was basically obliterating everything short of alpha striking with 50+ missiles at once, and even then it was tattering my salvos. Through solid rock. Or the dock.

They're considerably less effective on IS LRMs, but more so on ATMs because lower tube count, same health.

[TheFallOfTheReaper]

A buddy of mine did some testing, yes lams causes heat but of cutefoxes......it's almost worth it so do 1/2reg or 2/1reg purely for defensive/small payout buff per missle shot down, I think it's 1cbill or two per missle? But still that's x missles that didn't **** your teammates....tldr: if you have space bring it. It works on lrms atms srm2 and streaks.

[Vellron2005]

All I know about AMS is that the only way to break through it is to use either large launchers, or lots and lots of launchers fired in groups..

For instance - 6 x LRM5 will not get through a single AMS if chain fired, but will get through if group fired.
Multiple AMS will block a LRM10, and an Irondome (3 x AMS) will block LRM 15.

However, anything more than LRM20 will get through if group fired. So 2 x LRM15, or better will get through an Irondome. It will be wasteful, but you will still hit.

LRM70 kills Irondomes without much difficulty, but not many mechs can ever field that. (I have yet to find one on the IS side that can do it and still have backups and good ammo capacity)

ATMs completely suck against AMS, and this is why I don't use them.

Edited by Vellron2005, 12 September 2017 - 11:29 PM.

[jss78]

There's been a definite uptick in AMS effectiveness.

The only LRM 'mech I run is that classic 2xALRM10 Hunchback 4J. A year ago or so AMS was the least of your worries -- all or most of your volleys would go through. Nowadays it's increasingly common that ALL of them are stopped by AMS.

I think it's a combination of AMS damage buff, everyone running the skill tree nodes (vs. few people running overload modules earlier), and more people running AMS.

As far as LAMS. A single one is OK if your 'mech is cool enough. If you run something like a Gauss Jager, you get unlimited ammo and no ammo explosion risk for "free". Two LAMS can overheat your 'mech on their own.