53 replies to this topic

[kesmai]

@acana75 looking for a unit? Ma unit is accepting new players. If you like chaos, mayhem and the occasional loss write me a pm.

@ that teiris character: **** **** *****(

[Daggett]

arcana75, on 13 September 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

When I did well in my ACH, I won more matches. When I did well or not in my WHM, I lost anyway. There appeared to be a correlation (note correlation is not the same as cause and effect).

My guess is that you simply do things in your ACH which you can't do in a WHM. For instance simply by harassing the enemy in their backyard you can give the rest of your team much more opportunities for pushing or trading well. This is not rewarded by the game, so you may end with the same match score in both your mechs. Lights can help winning games without ever firing a single shot, just with their presence.

My win-rate with lights is much higher than with other weight-classes too and i think it's because of the described distraction and panic lights can cause like no other.

[Pineapple Salad]

First of all, your average match score with heavy mechs is 225, you can't be having 300-500 scoring matches all the time.

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but with that match score you're pretty much in the middle of the curve and don't contribute much for winning or losing yourself. If you focus on improving your own performance, eventually you will find yourself winning more matches than losing, but you can't completely avoid loss streaks even if you were the best player in the world. Sometimes the matchmaker will just screw you over. Over and over again.

[Thorqemada]

Streaks may happen if you have a situation where the matchmaking pool allways generates a teamsetup that is equivalent to the losing Team you had b4 regardless be it with the same or similar players.

Try a little break of 5 Minutes and if that not helps another timezone if you can and in the end sure - try to carry harder

Edited by Thorqemada, 14 September 2017 - 02:46 AM.

[Paigan]

sycocys, on 13 September 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

How many kills KMDD and total damage do you average per match? For me that would be a much better indicator of how well you are performing and why your are winning or losing more often.

FTFY

[Roadbuster]

arcana75, on 13 September 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't know what else to do... it didn't matter if I scored 300-500 pts per match or just get destroyed and score like 150-200, my team still loses. My current stats in my Warhammer 6D are 33 matches player 22 losses, 24 kills 25 deaths. I don't mind dying, but the match losing streak has really got to me. 10 game losing streak hurts.

Really don't know what else I can do or even know if it's me and I need to do more. Maybe it's just that I can't figure out heavy mech gameplay. It's just depressing honestly.

On the other hand my Arctic Cheetah Prime's stats are much better, 58 matches 35 wins, 49 kills 29 deaths, and I can deal with light mech gameplay, flanking and causing chaos in the enemy's firing line.

Maybe I should just stick to light mechs.

Stats mean nothing.
If you have a losing streak, try to wait a few minutes after a match, before dropping again.
It's often possible to drop with, or against the same people multiple successive matches, if you just drop again after you come out of a match.

Besides that, there's not much you can do. You can't carry 11 players, no matter how good you are.
Losing streaks happen. My worst was 17 losses in a row.
Just keep going, tommorrow you might have a winning streak.

Edited by Roadbuster, 14 September 2017 - 03:45 AM.

[The Basilisk]

arcana75, on 13 September 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't know what else to do... it didn't matter if I scored 300-500 pts per match or just get destroyed and score like 150-200, my team still loses. My current stats in my Warhammer 6D are 33 matches player 22 losses, 24 kills 25 deaths. I don't mind dying, but the match losing streak has really got to me. 10 game losing streak hurts.

Really don't know what else I can do or even know if it's me and I need to do more. Maybe it's just that I can't figure out heavy mech gameplay. It's just depressing honestly.

On the other hand my Arctic Cheetah Prime's stats are much better, 58 matches 35 wins, 49 kills 29 deaths, and I can deal with light mech gameplay, flanking and causing chaos in the enemy's firing line.

Maybe I should just stick to light mechs.

The metrics that YOU as player get presented in this game are much to random to be of much help to see what was wrong.

f.e. Yesterday I made some drops with dudes from my Unit. one of them drove a Spider and scouted consistantly the enemy lines giving us a very good idea where they where and what they did.
He managed to single out a mech that got seemingly unnerved by beeing consistantly pingt by the Spiders MG's.
Our lance caved his nose in and the rest of their team turned and went for us still the spider keeped sensor contact and started a UAV. Our team now pushed their behinds. Our lance went down with low to mediocre dmg and kills but spidermans scouting and our attack on the lone mech won the game.

No statistic shows this.

On the other Hand there are possibilitys to get hints out of your statistics.
f.e.: You drive a Quad LBX10 Mauler and you're doing around 500 - 600 dmg a match with 1-2 kills and 1 -2 kmdds and 10 assists.
As comparision you also use a MAD-IIC-D with dual Gauss, dual ERLLaser and ECM.
You do ~450dmg, 4 kills no kmdd and 6 assists.
You will earn a lot less money and matchscore but most likely you did what realy matters.
Hindering enemys at doing for their Team usefull things.

What I try to say here is that the meanings of all this statistics you get presented by the leaderboards, your end of game screens and your private account statistics are highly context specific.
450dmg out of Gauss on 3 Targets is a lot of dmg while the same ammount from lrms on 3 targets is loughable.
Are those 3 targets Assaults in the first case and lights in thesecond...well much less so if its the other way round you realy realy suc....

[Lorcryst NySell]

/triggered

I'm a bad player. I know that. I suffer from physical and mental limitations that prevent me from being as good as I want to be.

I belong in Tier 5, maybe Tier 4.

But shaming and belittleing me doesn't help me get better.

When a player genuinely wants to get better, telling him he's the problem is not only rude and obnoxious, it actually hinders the player, the game and the community.

Yes, please bring my stats into this debate.

I know that in a team-based game, I'm *NOT* the *ONLY* contributing factor. There are 11 other players on my team and 12 other players on the other team.

I do my best with what I have to work with.

I cannot understand the kind of toxic and elitist mentality of "people" telling me to "git gud" and never actually telling me HOW to "git gud".

Rant over.

[TheFallOfTheReaper]

Reeee tldr: you had a bad day? Keep trying bro it's okay
Also: oldbob, shoutout to wolverine survivors :3

[arcana75]

Lorcryst NySell, on 14 September 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

/triggered

Hey I was in your team about 20 mins ago, on a EU match. We lost lol.

kesmai, on 14 September 2017 - 01:57 AM, said:

@acana75 looking for a unit? Ma unit is accepting new players. If you like chaos, mayhem and the occasional loss write me a pm.

Thanks I'm already in a unit but am keeping my options open

Pineapple Salad, on 14 September 2017 - 02:33 AM, said:

First of all, your average match score with heavy mechs is 225, you can't be having 300-500 scoring matches all the time.

I didn't say I was posting 300-500 every match. I said:

Quote

it didn't matter if I scored 300-500 pts per match or just get destroyed and score like 150-200

FWIW I tracked the next few games, noting 3 stats, match score, win/loss and player tier points up or down:

• 199, lose, -
  
• 285, lose, = (was with Nysell)
  
• 401, win, +
  
• 203, win, +
  
• 381, win, +
  
• 132, win, + (my client crashed at drop. I did get back in tho but it took 5 mins)
  
• 318, win, +
  
• 360, win, +
  
• 265, win, +

From this, I gather that my performance doesn't affect the team. So it's all just the luck of the matchmaker draw. Also, it does seem that a win or loss affects pilot tier points much more than the player score.

Edited by arcana75, 14 September 2017 - 05:36 AM.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Arcana75: if you get into a loosing streak try another mech, or as others said take some minutes before you drop in again. Go to the testing grounds and train to shoot standing mechs while moving. The academy also has some good training tools.

About the Tier thingie being a batch of honor: no, it isn't. Seeing players show a low tier shows merely one thing: honesty. That's related to honor, it's honor at work. So it deserves respect.

[kesmai]

arcana75, on 14 September 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

Hey I was in your team about 20 mins ago, on a EU match. We lost lol.

Thanks I'm already in a unit but am keeping my options open

I didn't say I was posting 300-500 every match. I said:



FWIW I tracked the next few games, noting 3 stats, match score, win/loss and player tier points up or down:

• 199, lose, -
  
• 285, lose, =
  
• 401, win, +
  
• 203, win, +
  
• 381, win, +
  
• 132, win, +
  
• 318, win, +
  
• 360, win, +
  
• 265, win, +

From this, I gather that my performance doesn't affect the team. So it's all just the luck of the matchmaker draw.

And exactly there is the point you are wrong.
Your impact does affect the team. Even if you just do 200dmg,but made half of the reds chasing the squirrel you might be the reason your team wins. Not everything in this game is about stats, like others mentioned a lot of things aren't shown by numbers.

[Paigan]

Lorcryst NySell, on 14 September 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

[...]
I cannot understand the kind of toxic and elitist mentality of "people" telling me to "git gud" and never actually telling me HOW to "git gud".

The problem here is: the answer is "depends".
And it depends on a LOT of things.

For example personal preference. Some enjoy long range precision, others close range dogfights, others hit&run.
Everything can work if done in the right form at the right time (situation).
Even the notorious LRMs can be extremely valuable if used properly, but that is harder as one might think (knowing the terrain, having spotters, tag, narc, etc.)

Who would we be to tell you what way to choose?

Or it depends on tactics.
Some people think being "good" is all about suiciding into the enemy with a pure brawler build and hoping for the best. Others think that building up tactical advantages like splitting up the enemy, pressing them into cover, denying them important paths on the map, etc. is what a tactical game is all about. The prior people find the latter to be boring and "lame".

Or on it depends on team play.
What works well in solo queue can be bad or mediocre at best in a well coordinated team. If you have a well-coordinated team of 12 brawlers running simulataneously, they can easily beat sophisticated tactical play. If you only have 2 or 3 of those or are even a sole brawler storming forward, it can be the dumbest thing on earth.

So, sorry, but it depends.

Trying to tell someone how to "get good" is the same as trying to teach someone to be intelligent. Or rich. You simply can't. What worked and works for one does not necessarily have to work for another. You'll only notice in retrospective. If you play solo and your W/L and K/D is above 1.00 after 1000 matches, you probably are on the right track because it means you carry the team more often than they carry you.

All someone can tell you is some general advice:
- Learn the Mechs
- Learn the quirks
- Learn the weapons
- Learn the equipment
- Learn the maps
- Learn how it all interconnects (e.g. high mounted, low heat weapons with long range on a suitably quirked Mech on a hot map)
- Learn tactics (e.g. suiciding and blaming the team for not helping is not advisable. But cowarding behind a hill without contributing enough isn't, either)
- Good aim and eye-hand-coordination helps, but that's the least important thing, imho.

I know that is still too abstract and too complex to be of any real help, but you won't get it any simpler, either.
That's why people usually abbreviate it to "git gud".

Edited by Paigan, 14 September 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[Oldbob10025]

arcana75, on 13 September 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

As for the tier thing being a badge of honour or disgrace, I see it differently. I see it as opinion-shaping, combined with join date. Comments made by someone in the forum, the same words written by someone in Tier 1 with years of MWO on their belt, versus a Tier 5 with 2 weeks, the words take a different tone altogether. IMHO if a new player comments about the new player experience, PGI should listen closely, much more closely than a 5th year Tier 1 player. Not that PGI should ignore, but there is a different emphasis IMHO. The reverse happens or should happen if PGI is asking for ideas on late game content additions, or tweaks to deep mechanics like matchmaking, hitboxes and game balances.

For me, when someone gives advice to me about things in MWO, Tier helps me prioritise the suggestions as well. This was indeed the case when I read the forums looking for advice on my first mech to buy. The keyword here is prioritise, so I don't reject or blindly accept suggestions based purely on player Tier. Additionally, the tier status also changes my expectations of a forumer/player, where someone in a higher Tier, I expect better from them, as I have them in higher regard, so I expect more from them. We have other mechanics to develop the same mental models across other forums, on our own, etc creation date, post count, cogency of argument, etc, but here on MWO Tier is one helpful metric. This produces a more complex outcome than a simple "badge of honour or disgrace" that one should flaunt or hide.

My 2 cents. Anyway I'm taking time off from MWO. One thing's for sure those losses did make me think twice about firing up MWO these last 2 days.

As far as taking advice or prioritize the suggestions over another is not good.. Yes i'm Tier 2 but I dont really care about tiers and get footage for Youtube and play in some modes in third person to get some good shots or just derp along but I know what i'm doing. Tier 1 players (some) just get there from playing over a long period of time over the course of years and now are tier one just by getting in groups or games with wins. If the advice you get is good even if from a tier 5 player then take it and make your own choice on how to take it..

I learned some great tactics from players just starting out T5 that came from other games and got me thinking on some other things I can do for my gameplay. If you just go by Tiers as you will get some bad advice from T1 players..

NOTE: Not saying all T1 players just got T1 from only being in winning games but alot did get to T1 from being HELLA good at the game and playing really well with others so dont take it personal if you think its you Tier 1 players...

As far as the reason for this thread or post if you find yourself in a losing streak just take a break and do something else. You will get a better outlook on the game if you just take a break than to beat your head over the keyboard or get mad at players and yell like a child at them. Take a break and come back

PS: Shadowhimself 331 for the win my brother.... Lost Legion stand with you

Edited by Oldbob10025, 14 September 2017 - 09:50 AM.

[MadRover]

arcana75, on 13 September 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't know what else to do... it didn't matter if I scored 300-500 pts per match or just get destroyed and score like 150-200, my team still loses. My current stats in my Warhammer 6D are 33 matches player 22 losses, 24 kills 25 deaths. I don't mind dying, but the match losing streak has really got to me. 10 game losing streak hurts.

Really don't know what else I can do or even know if it's me and I need to do more. Maybe it's just that I can't figure out heavy mech gameplay. It's just depressing honestly.

On the other hand my Arctic Cheetah Prime's stats are much better, 58 matches 35 wins, 49 kills 29 deaths, and I can deal with light mech gameplay, flanking and causing chaos in the enemy's firing line.

Maybe I should just stick to light mechs.

Welcome to PUGtopia where stupid and losses are a common sight. If you've been in some of the games I was having last night, I promise you'll be raging about dealing with potatoes in tier 1 matches where you only pull only a 100 damage and maybe a kill because your team abandons you and 3 others at a superior position. Games like those make you question the mental capacity of some of these pilots.

[Atomic Hamster]

I'd be surprised if there was anyone who hasn't had losing streaks at some stage - personally I've had so many that I've started getting deja vu when I see the signs of a losing match from the start (eg entire team huddles behind a rock and assaults set up at the back for long-range 'fire support', entire team scatters all over the map without a word in a non-conquest game etc).
TBH I didn't get too bothered about losing streaks until I discovered (on this forum) the existence of public stats.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Paigan, on 14 September 2017 - 06:04 AM, said:

The problem here is: the answer is "depends".
And it depends on a LOT of things.

For example personal preference. Some enjoy long range precision, others close range dogfights, others hit&run.
Everything can work if done in the right form at the right time (situation).
Even the notorious LRMs can be extremely valuable if used properly, but that is harder as one might think (knowing the terrain, having spotters, tag, narc, etc.)

Who would we be to tell you what way to choose?

Or it depends on tactics.
Some people think being "good" is all about suiciding into the enemy with a pure brawler build and hoping for the best. Others think that building up tactical advantages like splitting up the enemy, pressing them into cover, denying them important paths on the map, etc. is what a tactical game is all about. The prior people find the latter to be boring and "lame".

Or on it depends on team play.
What works well in solo queue can be bad or mediocre at best in a well coordinated team. If you have a well-coordinated team of 12 brawlers running simulataneously, they can easily beat sophisticated tactical play. If you only have 2 or 3 of those or are even a sole brawler storming forward, it can be the dumbest thing on earth.

So, sorry, but it depends.

Trying to tell someone how to "get good" is the same as trying to teach someone to be intelligent. Or rich. You simply can't. What worked and works for one does not necessarily have to work for another. You'll only notice in retrospective. If you play solo and your W/L and K/D is above 1.00 after 1000 matches, you probably are on the right track because it means you carry the team more often than they carry you.

All someone can tell you is some general advice:
- Learn the Mechs
- Learn the quirks
- Learn the weapons
- Learn the equipment
- Learn the maps
- Learn how it all interconnects (e.g. high mounted, low heat weapons with long range on a suitably quirked Mech on a hot map)
- Learn tactics (e.g. suiciding and blaming the team for not helping is not advisable. But cowarding behind a hill without contributing enough isn't, either)
- Good aim and eye-hand-coordination helps, but that's the least important thing, imho.

I know that is still too abstract and too complex to be of any real help, but you won't get it any simpler, either.
That's why people usually abbreviate it to "git gud".

The simple fact that you took the time to write all that, even in broad terms and in theory, is already sooooo much better than the "git gud or GTFO" I had to trawl through during my first six months in the game.

I know that it depends on a variety of factors, thanks to people like you that pointed those out.

What boils my bile and turns the mustard that reach my nose is the kind of attitude of those that DON'T take such time.

And honestly, it took you what, 5 minutes to type all that ?

Anyway, I'm still learning things daily in this game, and I'm very glad for the people like you, so ...

THANK YOU !

[sub2000]

arcana75, on 13 September 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't know what else to do... it didn't matter if I scored 300-500 pts per match or just get destroyed and score like 150-200, my team still loses. My current stats in my Warhammer 6D are 33 matches player 22 losses, 24 kills 25 deaths. I don't mind dying, but the match losing streak has really got to me. 10 game losing streak hurts.

Really don't know what else I can do or even know if it's me and I need to do more. Maybe it's just that I can't figure out heavy mech gameplay. It's just depressing honestly.

On the other hand my Arctic Cheetah Prime's stats are much better, 58 matches 35 wins, 49 kills 29 deaths, and I can deal with light mech gameplay, flanking and causing chaos in the enemy's firing line.

Maybe I should just stick to light mechs.

I think it is safe to say everybody here had at least ones such streak.
If you lost because your team was completely disorganized. don't just press launch button for the next game, if you do so you quite probably will end with same players who didn't become a team together.
Unlike other games MWO tends to keep loosing teams together.
You better choose other mech or even better a mech from other weight class. Doing so you warrant MM reset.

[sub2000]

Teiris, on 13 September 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

I got nothing against the OP, but you can't sugarcoat things around here. MWO is a game for skilled players. All the good and notable players are Tier 1 and 2. There is no such thing as a skilled Tier 3, 4 or 5 player in MWO. If you are not Tier 1 or 2, all you can do is to humbly accept that you are not there yet and work to get to a better level, and not flashing Tier 5 proudly like its a badge of honor.

Lol, I am average potato, currently trying to level some 12 or or so of Resistance mechs I(gosh panthers and kingcrabs are very unforgiving mechs) and of course I am having plenty of miserable rounds. I am still progressing on PSR bar quite fast, probably will be reaching Tier 2 in a month or less.
Using sweet spot 65t clan or 75t IS mechs (without lrms on menu obviously ) pretty much anybody can reach tier 1 in a few hundreds games.

[Blue Pheonix]

I personally am convinced that the match is usually decided before a game starts by the Match maker. Unless you are on teamspeak with at least one other person, there is simply so much one can carry.