35 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 September 2017 - 06:04 PM, said:

I always justify it in my head by saying the 'Mech mass is what it can carry and not how much is in the whole package.

I'm still kind of skeptical with that approach. It does solve a lot of problems, and would make sense of the Battlemechs having uniform speed even when dreadfully under-ton, or when ammo is being depleted.

But weapons themselves being a lot heavier, perhaps that's the limit.

[Mole]

Stop trying to apply physics to Battletech. It has only ever, does, and always will end in tears.

[Y E O N N E]

The6thMessenger, on 13 September 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

I'm still kind of skeptical with that approach. It does solve a lot of problems, and would make sense of the Battlemechs having uniform speed even when dreadfully under-ton, or when ammo is being depleted.

But weapons themselves being a lot heavier, perhaps that's the limit.

I mean, the uniform speed makes zero sense even under BT rules, but it is what it is.

IMHO, the entirety of BT needs to be scrapped and rebooted from scratch.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 September 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

IMHO, the entirety of BT needs to be scrapped and rebooted from scratch.

Maybe i could inject dear Yuna Cassel into that.

[kesmai]

Heathens and heretics.
We all know battletech is real.

[The6thMessenger]

kesmai, on 13 September 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

Heathens and heretics.
We all know battletech is real.

Not as real as Warhammer 40000 you dirty heathen.

[arcana75]

Ruar, on 13 September 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

That's not an M1. It looks like an early Merkava turret on a Challenger hull. I looked through some Challenger photos but none have that low of a turret.

Probably closer to 60 tons rather than 70. Most likely using a 120mm smoothbore though.

That APC on the right looks like a BTR so my guess is that tank is a russian T72 which has a similar low-profile turret ie the photo was done by a Russian or Eastern European player.

Anyway...



Source: https://community.ba...ums/threads/229 or just google "battletech mech scale" and find tons of other images.

Edited by arcana75, 13 September 2017 - 11:41 PM.

[Lily from animove]

qS Sachiel, on 13 September 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

Yes.
Again, it comes down to materials. Of course you want the smallest target you can afford, perhaps though futuretech materials are very durable at the expense of density though, meaning you still get a 100t total tonnage, very durable vs the power that it absorbs in punishment (and can dish out) at the expense of having a bulkier bot.

You're right that a ship requires that pbulk to maintain buoyancy, but perhaps a mech cannot afford to scrape off the volume based purely on the material restriction.

Again, comparing a 100t atlas to a current age MBT doesn't work because space magic (not your quote, infinity).

from sarna

Quote

Endo Steel was designed especially for use in BattleMech skeletons. Using zero-G manufacturing techniques that uniformly mix high-density steel with lower-density titanium and aluminum, the process produces a metal twice as strong per unit of weight as standard skeleton materials thus halving the weight of the chassis, but at an increase in overall bulk (Inner Sphere Endo Steel takes up 14 critical slots, 7 for Clan).

so BT material is surely different in it's density, so it's hard to compare them properly. Also the question is also, whats the standard skeleton material.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 September 2017 - 04:51 AM.

[CtrlAltWheee]

I always thought it was about materials science. They're using new stuff in the future.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Trissila, on 13 September 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

No need to speculate. BT rulebooks state that the average Battlemech is indeed 30 feet, or roughly 10 meters, tall.

by 1980 Rules 2 Level give all Mechs full cover (1 Level =6m) in old Lore the ShadowHawk is 9,63m Tall or the Warhammer is to Head 11,27m (over Missletubes =12,7m) and the Atklas i the BT History its sclaing from first 12m to later 16m and now 18m by MWO ...in each Publication the Mechs have other Proportions ,and with a Mechlab and very Different Weapons in the same Mechmodels (and we have not all the very differnet Models from a Weaponmodel ...seeing the AC20 from different Factories)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 14 September 2017 - 02:10 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I think the mechs in MWO do seem scaled a little too big in general, but at the same time the map design, weird 4x gravity and high mobility makes them often feel too small when driving.

Got to be a tricky thing to design right.

Personally I'd like to see them all scaled down to where an atlas is about 15m tall, gravity decreased from 4G to 2G, or ideally different maps having different gravity like they had in MW2mercs (remember the escort mission transporting the ice-asteroid between planets? Gravity was so low you could float away into space if you used jumpjets or ran too fast up a hill) etc., and more noticable inertia effects when driving to convey their weight.

Agility could stay I guess, it's much nicer feel since the general reduction and engine decoupling so that mechs feel bigger and more like machines. I know a lot of people liked the agility they had before but to me the reduction was a massive improvement in both gameplay and immersion. I do think some mechs are still too nimble (and a very select few should be more agile)

Edited by Sjorpha, 14 September 2017 - 04:00 AM.

[Appogee]

I have it on good authority that armor in the 30th century will be much lighter weight than it is today.

So comparing the weight of tanks in the 20th century to the weight of Mechs the 30th century is inherently invalid.

Incidentally, they will also have amored glass in the 30th century. Even better than iPhone X glass.

One thing that will stay relatively constant is the height of a human. Humans have got to be able to fit into the cockpit of a Spider as well as an Atlas. This is where MWO is completely inconsistent, why Light Mechs should be relatively tall/big such as the one pictured, and why Assault Mechs should probably be much bigger in MWO than they are presently depicted.

Edited by Appogee, 14 September 2017 - 04:00 AM.

[qS Sachiel]

Appogee, on 14 September 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

I have it on good authority that armor in the 30th century will be much lighter weight than it is today.

So comparing the weight of tanks in the 20th century to the weight of Mechs the 30th century is inherently invalid.

Incidentally, they will also have amored glass in the 30th century. Even better than iPhone X glass.

One thing that will stay relatively constant is the height of a human. Humans have got to be able to fit into the cockpit of a Spider as well as an Atlas. This is where MWO is completely inconsistent, why Light Mechs should be relatively tall/big such as the one pictured, and why Assault Mechs should probably be much bigger in MWO than they are presently depicted.

I thought at least as clans were concerned, that pilots of different vehicles were specifically bred with intelligence, strength, and proportion in mind.
Sarna notes that the protomechs for example sacrificed cockpit space to maintain weapons and support facilities, while the mech volume decreased. They tried breeding smaller men for the job, but the plan didn't work out (forget why) so they employed 'smaller aerospace fighters' who were just as luck would have it, both physically and proportionally fit for purpose.

It's a moot point, protomechs not having been realised in MWO, but i'd assume the breeding strategy was broadly applied to all parts of clan life (or at least those who were bred).

IS? well we all know they're just a bunch of longbeard small hands (and you know what they say about small hands)...

Edited by qS Sachiel, 14 September 2017 - 04:29 AM.

[Bigbacon]

maybe the definition of a ton in the BT universe is different than the earth version of a ton.

[qS Sachiel]

Given they didn't make up some silly sci-fi sounding word to communicate weight i'd assume ton=ton.
there are multiple variants of ton/tonne/whatever currently though, just as there are multiple types of ounce.

[kesmai]

Appogee, on 14 September 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

I have it on good authority that armor in the 30th century will be much lighter weight than it is today.

So comparing the weight of tanks in the 20th century to the weight of Mechs the 30th century is inherently invalid.

Incidentally, they will also have amored glass in the 30th century. Even better than iPhone X glass.

One thing that will stay relatively constant is the height of a human. Humans have got to be able to fit into the cockpit of a Spider as well as an Atlas. This is where MWO is completely inconsistent, why Light Mechs should be relatively tall/big such as the one pictured, and why Assault Mechs should probably be much bigger in MWO than they are presently depicted.

The first of the battletech novels, "decision at thunder rift", gives a good idea of the physical height a pilot of a light, in this case the locust, should have.
Lori was below 1,60m and even for her the cockpit is "shoetight" implying that being even smaller is the go to height for light mechs.
We're talking about an ideal height of 145 to 155 cm for a locust pilot.
I've given this example just to show that lore is well aware of the pilot size problem.