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How To Limit Laser Alphas


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#101 kf envy

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:39 PM

View PostACH75, on 13 September 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

Very Simple...

Not allowing anymore MIXED type lasers fire groups!

This will force People to return at mixed weapon types Loadouts in many cases...

Maybe Alphas still possibles but at high penalties like almost entirely filling the heat bar.


no put in the prober heat system an the correct heat scale an not this ban aid trash we have.

#102 panzer1b

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:00 PM

The primary reason mixing weapons (with a few rare exceptions such as gauss+lasers and before its death, gauss+ppc) really doesnt work is because you will almost always be in a situation where at least some of your weapons cannot be used to good effect or where your weapons dont really complement each other. For optimal combat, you are going to want a mech that is specialized around ONE range bracket (with medium range being the most popular since there are too many drawbacks to sniping and brawling doesnt really work well on like half the maps), and that allows you to use all of your weapons simultaneously to deliver as much damage as possible in the opening salvo (the first shot is usually the most important since the enemy may be unaware of you or not prepared to shield the second you fire).

This is why the vast majority of builds are laser vomit. On IS its almost always LPL+ERML since those 2 are perfectly synced, have same effective range, and at least the LPLs are more or less PPFLD which is a huge premium well worth the tonnage in this case (only time youd ever use ERLLs is when you need every ton or absolutely have to have range). Clan side, its pretty much the same idea but with different guns, since clan LPLs have been sorta nerfed to the point they arent that great (and 1.1s burn time isnt short enough to justify the weight), so its mostly 6 ERMLs with 1-2 HLL/ERLL (ERMLs are perfect range wise and weigh nothing for the damage they do). Ofc you do still get alot of gauss vomit (since gauss with energy is almost always more alfa and more sustained DPS with 15-30 PPFLD portion), but things like dakka vomit doesnt really work (dakka requires facetime, and cannot be fired at the same time unless target isnt moving at all). Also, since mid range poke is the dominant strat right now outside of coordinated drops, laser/gauss vomit is the go-to build. Really was sad to see gauss-ppc go, it was the only alternative to laser vomit in the pokefest that MWO has turned into (not that you cant do other things, but brawling just isnt so strong that pokers cant put up a good fight even in shorter ranges).

Unless some massive overhaul is made, i dont think we will even see "mixed" builds appear on the competitive scene outside of a few niche circumstances. Its always better to take a mech thats super focused on one role and does that role better then the competition (whatever it it be it brawling, mid range poking, sniping, ect), and i dont think any thing besides removing the ability to customize the mechs (if that ever happens im done with this game as the main reason i like this over other vehicle shooters is the ability to customize your ride) will actually result in the dissapearance of "boating" as a primary tactic.

Edited by panzer1b, 15 September 2017 - 05:02 PM.


#103 adamts01

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:30 PM

I still think a CoF similar to every other game is the way to go. The more weapons you fire at once, the more the shots will spread. It even solves the 8 x Light Machinegun menaces. I'm all for lights having more power, and machineguns having a role, but those things are almost as bad as laser vomits. Let them have 8 MGs, and let them go Rambo if they want, but make those shots spread more if that light of a platform is firing 8 MGs at once. Make them get a little closer if they want to instantly crit a mech. Same with laser boats. Remove Ghost Heat all together, but penalize mechs that dump every weapon at once with less accuracy. Let them chain fire if they want to be pinpoint snipers.

#104 Koniving

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:34 PM

View PostACH75, on 13 September 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

I mean for example:

Group 1 = 3 Large Lasers (or More with current or revised penalties)
Group 2 = 6 Medium Lasers (or More with current or revised penalties)

Fired in sequence, not fired simultaneously in Alpha Strike without severe penalty

Just for Lasers Types, you eventually can mix lasers with other weapon types in the same group as it is now...

Might as well just do the Energy Draw, which did pretty much that.
Except it was fine to fire mixed groups, but if it drew more than 30 energy, you got punished bad.

.....Kinda sounds like 30 heat at once and shutdown...anyone remember those days?
....Anyone?

#105 InspectorG

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:46 PM

View PostFupDup, on 13 September 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

...Your idea to make people want to mix weapon groups is to prevent mixed weapon groups from firing. Kay, got it.


Wait, wait....

I got it!!!!

We can require a locked target in order to Alpha!!!!

And since potaytoes dont press R....

They will bake and explode!!!

#106 InspectorG

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:06 PM

View Postadamts01, on 15 September 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I still think a CoF similar to every other game is the way to go. The more weapons you fire at once, the more the shots will spread. It even solves the 8 x Light Machinegun menaces. I'm all for lights having more power, and machineguns having a role, but those things are almost as bad as laser vomits. Let them have 8 MGs, and let them go Rambo if they want, but make those shots spread more if that light of a platform is firing 8 MGs at once. Make them get a little closer if they want to instantly crit a mech. Same with laser boats. Remove Ghost Heat all together, but penalize mechs that dump every weapon at once with less accuracy. Let them chain fire if they want to be pinpoint snipers.


Im not sure about that.

I would rather PGI take the time to figure out DPS and Alpha size per weight class/hardpoint groupings and govern what can be linked via Weapons Groupings. Reduce or eliminate GH.

Hard 1 second cooldown between the firings of Groups. This also stymies Marcos(which i dont care about).

This way, some variants can be, within a chassis, DPS, others Alpha oriented, and in-between.


But its PGI so....





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