105 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

I think it's you whose being toxic. What's wrong with wanting alphas to be toned down from the extremes that some clan mechs can manage?

and seriously there's only a tiny difference between an alpha that is delivered in 2s as oppossed to 1s. To say otherwise is being disingenuous - like the clan crocodile tears warriors who have to scream really loudly so that their mechs get to keep their OP alphas.

No, I just like playing MechWarrior and not some grognard's imagined fantasyland that tries to resemble TT/books.

A Dire Wolf needs to be able to do a mountain of damage in a short amount of time otherwise it doesn't have a reason to exist.

I will also remind you that 50 damage PPFLD kept the 80-94 damage alphas in check, but you and your ilk did away with that as well.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 September 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[Dogstar]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

you and your ilk did away with that as well.

Whatever...

[Gas Guzzler]

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Whatever...

[Bigbacon]

AlphaEtOmega, on 14 September 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

There are dozens of threads for every kind of weapon (Ballistic, Energy, Missile) claiming that they are OP. I think some guys just want to transform MWO into some kind of mech walking simulator.

no i just want it to be semi balanced. Walking around and wacking alpha for 81 points of damage without immediately shutting down for 2 minutes and dying is messed up. you can walk away from it without and downside wait a few seconds and do it all over again.

that is a huge problem.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

I think you're rather cherry picking your argument there.

No, I'm pointing out your blanket statement is false because not all are always going to be equal.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bigbacon, on 14 September 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

no i just want it to be semi balanced. Walking around and wacking alpha for 81 points of damage without immediately shutting down for 2 minutes and dying is messed up. you can walk away from it without and downside wait a few seconds and do it all over again.

that is a huge problem.

That's called being an Assault mech. You are also walking slowly, are a big target and aren't super agile. If you have any kind of reaction time/awareness you can identify when an assault mech is going to shoot you and mitigate the damage. All it takes is being able to play well... You know, thinking man's shooter?

[Bigbacon]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

That's called being an Assault mech. You are also walking slowly, are a big target and aren't super agile. If you have any kind of reaction time/awareness you can identify when an assault mech is going to shoot you and mitigate the damage. All it takes is being able to play well... You know, thinking man's shooter?

LOL thinking mans shooting.. game is SO far from that.

also...hellbringer...

you are still missing the point that heat has no negatives except that you might shut down and you may blow up but in reality that isn't a huge deal to over come.

Go look at any other installment of MW or even BT and as heat builds, bad things start to happen. this is the only game that doesn't do that so you get this kind of crap, which leads to instamelting which shouldn't happen (Mostly)

Edited by Bigbacon, 14 September 2017 - 09:53 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bigbacon, on 14 September 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

LOL thinking mans shooting..

What you don't seem to understand is the lack of thought is what get's you into trouble.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bigbacon, on 14 September 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

no negatives except that you might shut down and you may blow up but in reality that isn't a huge deal to over come.

If you shut down in the wrong spot, you're dead.

If you blow up in the wrong any spot, you're dead.

Kind of tough to over come...

[Y E O N N E]

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

I think you're rather cherry picking your argument there.

He's not. There is a range of values for duration where a change is palpable. The exact magnitude of the impact varies depending on how big and how fast the target is (i.e. a 1.4 second burn is no big deal vs. a 0.77 second burn when shooting at most assaults, but is easily smeared by certain heavies).

[Trissila]

Bigbacon, on 14 September 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

you are still missing the point that heat has no negatives except that you might shut down and you may blow up but in reality that isn't a huge deal to over come.

Shutting down is a huge negative unless your opponents are completely incompetent. It is several seconds of free CT focus damage, and that means you're dead if they have any aim capability at all.

Seriously, close the gap on a high-heat laser boat and watch how hard he gets owned. Heat means that while you're popping off AC/Gauss shots and ruining his torsos, he's got, like, 4 mediums he can fire with any sort of regularity -- and even that is going to be slow because spamming even 4 mediums on cooldown will rapidly build heat. So his options are to do completely pathetic DPS that in no way matches yours, or to alpha you and hope that it kills you before he shuts down, because otherwise you're going to smoke him while he's waiting for the startup sequence. And even if he kills you, one of your teammates is probably going to smoke him anyway.

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Whatever...

I would still like to know what you would do with the remaining 20.5 tons on this Timberwolf: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...531df796d3119d5

that would in any way make it worth bringing over this Cicada, which has comparable (actually slightly more, due to exactly hitting the 30-point cap you proposed) firepower but moves 40 KPH faster and delivers the damage in half the time (0.6s duration vs. 1.25s): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ae890d2dc6fabaa

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Trissila, on 14 September 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

I would still like to know what you would do with the remaining 20.5 tons on this Timberwolf: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...531df796d3119d5

This is what you would end up with: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f35258a1e1e10b

Just pushing and volley firing that for as long as you could. That's what happened in the ED PTS.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 September 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[Natred]

I think the name of this thread should be changed. How to get wrecked by laser vomit with my wonky mrm ballistic machine gun 1 laser srm 2 build. With all my ammo in my side torsos while running an xl.

[Luminis]

30 point alpha limit?

Dual Gauss = meta. EZ.

[sycocys]

So how do you propose dealing with the people that would and do just use macros to get around ghost heat and jamming mechanics anyhow?

[Blue Boutique]

sycocys, on 14 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

So how do you propose dealing with the people that would and do just use macros to get around ghost heat and jamming mechanics anyhow?

Learn to play the clarinet and fight back with musical note fingers that can do the same thing but better.

[Dogstar]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 September 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

He's not. There is a range of values for duration where a change is palpable. The exact magnitude of the impact varies depending on how big and how fast the target is (i.e. a 1.4 second burn is no big deal vs. a 0.77 second burn when shooting at most assaults, but is easily smeared by certain heavies).

You're still cherry picking your arguments by treating twisting as something that every target can do effortlessly and without penalty when in fact it's actually a difficult skill to get right and only applicable to face to face one on one confrontations. In the heat of battle it's much easier to land a full laser alpha on a target who is unaware/shooting at someone else/outnumbered/etc.

Those are the times when 50 plus point alphas are unreasonable and where the duration of said alpha is entirely irrelevant and they occur a lot more often than when skilled pilots face off against each other in a duel.

Also the OPs idea of limiting laser alphas isn't any good but doesn't mean there isn't a possible problem with the very large amounts of laser damage clan mechs are putting out at the moment.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

In the heat of battle it's much easier to land a full laser alpha on a target who is unaware/shooting at someone else/outnumbered/etc.

That's an error on the target's side, ie bad positioning. There is a reason poptarts dominated prior to the Gauss/PPC ghost heat link, and guess why? It is because it is very hard to catch a poptart outside of cover like that.

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Those are the times when 50 plus point alphas are unreasonable and where the duration of said alpha is entirely irrelevant

Those are also the times in which the target made a mistake. Catching someone flat-footed is going to have penalties, and it is something that sustained or burst oriented damage will ALWAYS have a bigger advantage on capitalizing over just raw PPFLD.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 September 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[Shadowomega1]

ACH75, on 14 September 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

Feels like "Suicide Warrior Online" to me

Too much complicated

Only to Potato's that love to jump into the oven

[Luminis]

Dogstar, on 14 September 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

twisting [...] a difficult skill

Well, gutting some Mechs' agility probably didn't help with that, but difficult?

Hitting D and dragging your mouse to the right really isn't all that difficult and it'll do a sufficient job at spreading 1+ seconds of incoming fire.

Balancing the game so that players can get away with bad positioning, bad aim, the inability to use cover or twist or whatever isn't something I hold in particularly high regard because players can - and should - learn all of that.

Edited by Luminis, 14 September 2017 - 12:02 PM.