123 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

I cannot help but facepalm at the patch notes. PGI logic is just amazingly wrong.

Quote

Light Gauss Rifle
• Cooldown reduced to 3.25 (from 3.75).

This completely ignores the fact that the go to weapon for long range combat has been the ER LL for like, a year. PGI doesnt play their own game, so they have NO idea what the meta is.

PGI logic : Surely giving a 12 ton weapon the same DPS as a 15 ton weapon makes it good right? It's 3 tons lighter!

Player logic : Why should i care when i have been boating ER LLs for the past year?

PGI logic : But it generates low heat!

Player logic : Yea, that really matters when i'm sniping from 800+m on alpine peaks or polar highlands...do you even play the game?

Quote

Heavy Gauss Rifle
• Charge-up duration reduced to 0.75 (from 1).
• Charge retention duration increased to 1 second (from 0.5 seconds).

Still doesnt address the fundemental issue that 1x AC 20 is better than 1x heavy gauss, simply because it is lighter, you can use one with a LFE and it has no charge up time.

Quote

Rotary AC 2
• Minimum Heat Scale penalty level increased to 4 (from 3). You can now fire 3 RAC 2's without being penalized by heat scale.

Doesn't address the issue that the RAC 2 sucks (especially in comparison to the RAC 5).

PGI logic : But you can boat more now to make up for the fact that one or two are underwhelming!

Player logic : Or i can just use two RAC 5s...

Quote

AC/10
• Heat reduced to 2.75 (from 3).

UAC/10
• Heat reduced to 3.5 (from 4).

Clan UAC/10
• Heat increased to 3.5 (from 3).

PGI makes zero attempt at understanding why boating UAC 5s is common and most UAC 10 builds in FP are on Kodiaks/Annihilators. Lowering AC 10 heat down to 2.75 doesnt do a thing at all. All this will do is encourage more clan UAC 5 boating because clan UAC 10s will be less attractive. You might see slightly more IS UAC 10 builds in QP i guess. Slepinirs/Maulers are not going to stop boating UAC 5s because of this. Again, this is what happens when you dont play your own game and have no idea what people actually use.

PGI logic : We will make the IS UAC 10 cooler so people will use it more!

Player logic : Uh, who cares? My 4x UAC 5 mauler/slepinir still does more DPS at a longer range and is cooler?

Quote

MRMs (all sizes)
• Range increased to 550 (from 450).
• Velocity increased to 475 (from 425).

PGI logic : We will increase the max range more even though everyone has been telling us that the problem is that the spread makes it unusable at 300+ meters as it is. Surely players will use it at longer ranges where it is even less ineffective than before?

It is painfully obvious that PGI has never tried using MRMs at 450 meters before.

Quote

Assassin
• ASN-21 Missile Velocity Quirk has been removed.

PGI Logic : Assassins have good performance, so they don't need more missile velocity.

Player logic : We don't use the assassin for missile velocity quirks, do you even know why the assassin is outperforming most lights/mediums at the moment?

Quote

Dragon
• DRG-1C Laser Duration and Energy Range Quirks have been removed.

PGI logic : Dragons are performing well, even though the only dragons in FP are the occasional 3x LPL dragon, so we have to nerf their energy quirks.

Player logic : That's okay, we will just boat LPLs on another mech instead and everyone running medium lasers/MPL in QP get shafted.

Quote

Warhawk
• WHK-C Energy Heat Gen Quirk has been reduced across the Arm OmniPods.
• WHK-C Energy Heat Gen Quirk has been removed from the Set of 8 Bonus. It has instead received a new Pulse Laser Duration Quirk.

PGI Logic : We will discourage people from using the stock ER PPC + LPL combo (which was never popular compared to laser vomit anyway) and just encourage more LPL boating instead.

Player logic : So we will either boat LPLs on the WHK-C or run laser vomit on the MAD-IIC instead which has better in almost every way.

I could go into more detail but this is all a classic example of what happens when you only look at stats and have no idea what people actually bring in real world matches. Like, really, the DRAGON of all mechs is OVER PERFORMING?! When almost every IS mech in the first three waves is a laser vomit grasshopper, warhammer, black knight or battlemaster on most maps? Where is it over performing, in tier 5 matches?

Absolutely no mention of how laser vomit is "over performing" or how LBXs are "under performing". Funny that.

[Carl Vickers]

Lol, good post, please tell us more.

[Khobai]

Light Gauss needs to be 10 damage

And Heavy Gauss need significantly better range so it outranges AC20s and feels more like a gauss weapon

[Bombast]

The MRM buff is pretty decent, actually. There's several maps with postions that are just outside of MRM range, forcing you to either hunker down and wait for one of the teams to do something, or do something stupid like rush in a mech with MRMs, which don't push well.

It's certainly not going to make it meta, but I think it will help people running them in QP for fun (And who else is using them anyway?).

Edited by Bombast, 18 September 2017 - 05:50 PM.

[Athom83]

Khobai, on 18 September 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

Light Gauss needs to be 10 damage

Or, it keeps the 8 damage and its new cooldown, but requires no charge.

Khobai, on 18 September 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

And Heavy Gauss need significantly better range so it outranges AC20s and feels more like a gauss weapon

You mean like how it already does?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jun Watarase, on 18 September 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

PGI Logic : We will discourage people from using the stock ER PPC + LPL combo (which was never popular compared to laser vomit anyway) and just encourage more LPL boating instead.

Player logic : So we will either boat LPLs on the WHK-C or run laser vomit on the MAD-IIC instead which has better in almost every way.

I was good until you got here, the reason the WHK-C was nerfed was because 13% heat gen made the 4 ERPPC build one of the strongest assaults in the game. They nerf-hammered it though in typical PGI fashion and didn't even attempt to bring the Prime up in heat gen to make it at least comparable (WHK-C being devoted to cLPL boating would be fine if cLPLs were still worth boating to begin with).

[FupDup]

The Warhawk-C got nerfed faster than I thought.

I dunno why they keep trying to make mediums (Hunch IIC) have such poor agility. Yes, it was a top meta gundam, but it's a medium mech. Mediums are by definition supposed to outmaneuver heavies excluding of certain outliers (i.e. 60-tonners and the Linebacker).

There has got to be a better way than making good mediums just play like heavies with less tonnage for armor and guns.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Athom83, on 18 September 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Or, it keeps the 8 damage and its new cooldown, but requires no charge.

Kind of removes the flavor doesn't it. I'm with Khobai on this for once, it needs 10 damage and probably a velocity boost to make it more usable with ERLL at extreme range.

[JediPanther]

They didn't know how to balance the game in closed beta either. Clans, power creep and new tech still have them going 'duh we kun balnce der game jus fine george.' It started mostly with the raven 3L and ecm.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 18 September 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

The Warhawk-C got nerfed faster than I thought.

The sad part is they keep nerfing old meta. WLF-2 and FS9-S aren't relevant anymore because the Cheetah is just the better light. The SVN-1 is pretty much pointless with the MCII around and the WHK-C needed something to allow it to compete against gauss vomit of the MCII.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 18 September 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

The Warhawk-C got nerfed faster than I thought.

I dunno why they keep trying to make mediums (Hunch IIC) have such poor agility. Yes, it was a top meta gundam, but it's a medium mech. Mediums are by definition supposed to outmaneuver heavies excluding of certain outliers (i.e. 60-tonners and the Linebacker).

There has got to be a better way than making good mediums just play like heavies with less tonnage for armor and guns.

Fun fact: The HBK-IIC-A has the same mobility as an HGN-IIC.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 September 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Fun fact: The HBK-IIC-A has the same mobility as an HGN-IIC.

Oh...wow.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 September 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

The sad part is they keep nerfing old meta. WLF-2 and FS9-S aren't relevant anymore because the Cheetah is just the better light. The SVN-1 is pretty much pointless with the MCII around and the WHK-C needed something to allow it to compete against gauss vomit of the MCII.

I'm pretty peeved about the SNV-1.

[Khobai]

Quote

Or, it keeps the 8 damage and its new cooldown, but requires no charge.

no. either all gauss rifles should have charge or none of them should.

its called being consistent.

Quote

You mean like how it already does?

nope. because how it works now is crap. its optimum range sucks. and the damage drops off too fast.

it should be 22 damage and 570m/1140m (and probably have a ghost heat limit of 1)

not 25 damage and 270m/810m

then it would significantly outrange the AC20 and feel like an actual gauss weapon

Edited by Khobai, 18 September 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Hell wit ya OP. For the first time ever I am immensely pleased with a balance pass. Nothing I play got nerffed (save a minor hit to the wolf hound). Some of the weapons I favor got buffed (save for the slight hit to the HPPC). Most of what they did makes some sort of sense, even if I disagree with it. If this is a "face palm" of "amazingly wrong" "PGI logic" then I want them to keep being wrong. If having IS light machine guns get nerfed along with the clan, is the price I have to pay to keep my crap tier mechs away from the nerf hammer, then I am willing to pay that price.

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 September 2017 - 06:22 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Sadly, we don't get the second-generation heavy Gauss for quite some time. It's experimental by 3065, but not production-level until 3081:

http://www.sarna.net...avy_Gauss_Rifle

Pretty much everything you'd want out of the current HGauss- stable damage profile, respectable reach. Just heavier to carry around, since it's a twenty ton gun.

[FupDup]

Bud Crue, on 18 September 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

Hell wit ya OP. For the first time ever I am immensely pleased with a balance pass. Nothing I play got nerffed (save a minor hit to the wolf hound). Some of the weapons I favor got buffed (save for the slight hit to the HPPC). Most of what they did makes some sort of sense, even if I disagree with it. If this is a "face palm" of "amazingly wrong" "PGI logic" then I want them to keep being wrong. If having IS light machine guns get nerfed along with the clan, is the price I have to pay to keep my crap tier mechs away from the nerf hammer, then I am willing to pay that price.

Bruh, you know by now that no one is ever safe from the almighty Nerf Gun. Your bad robots will eventually get the hammer, it's only a question of when...

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 18 September 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

nope. because how it works now is crap. its optimum range sucks. and the damage drops off too fast.

it should be 22 damage and 570m/1140m (and probably have a ghost heat limit of 1)

not 25 damage and 270m/810m

then it would significantly outrange the AC20 and feel like an actual gauss weapon

I don't even know why you bother dropping the 3 points of damage. There are 'Mechs now spitting out between 70 and 94 points, and the most the IS can get to without becoming an unreliable gimmick is 67-68 using the 25 damage HGauss. Even if cGauss got nerfed to 12 damage, this reality would persist; it would just cap out at 88 instead of 94.

[Jun Watarase]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 September 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

I was good until you got here, the reason the WHK-C was nerfed was because 13% heat gen made the 4 ERPPC build one of the strongest assaults in the game. They nerf-hammered it though in typical PGI fashion and didn't even attempt to bring the Prime up in heat gen to make it at least comparable (WHK-C being devoted to cLPL boating would be fine if cLPLs were still worth boating to begin with).

The funny thing is that the 4 ER PPC build isnt even that strong considering you still overheat like crazy on cold maps, its not hitscan and the warhawk itself is bad (poor hitboxes, low slung weapon mounts, etc). If they wanted to discourage ER PPC boating on the C, they could have split the energy heat quirk, 50% energy heat, 50% er PPC heat or something.

All they did was encourage people to boat LPLs instead of using 2x LPL/2x ER PPCs on the WHK-C. This isnt a good thing, and it doesnt address laser vomit on the MAD-IIC/Supernova/Whatever.

The 2x LPL/ER PPC combo obviously wasnt over performing so nerfing that specific combo and encouraging LPL laser vomit completely defeats the point of the C variant.

[Stonefalcon]

Jun Watarase, on 18 September 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

I cannot help but facepalm at the patch notes. PGI logic is just amazingly wrong.

[/size][/font]

This completely ignores the fact that the go to weapon for long range combat has been the ER LL for like, a year. PGI doesnt play their own game, so they have NO idea what the meta is.

PGI logic : Surely giving a 12 ton weapon the same DPS as a 15 ton weapon makes it good right? It's 3 tons lighter!

Player logic : Why should i care when i have been boating ER LLs for the past year?

PGI logic : But it generates low heat!

Player logic : Yea, that really matters when i'm sniping from 800+m on alpine peaks or polar highlands...do you even play the game?



Still doesnt address the fundemental issue that 1x AC 20 is better than 1x heavy gauss, simply because it is lighter, you can use one with a LFE and it has no charge up time.



Doesn't address the issue that the RAC 2 sucks (especially in comparison to the RAC 5).

PGI logic : But you can boat more now to make up for the fact that one or two are underwhelming!

Player logic : Or i can just use two RAC 5s...



PGI makes zero attempt at understanding why boating UAC 5s is common and most UAC 10 builds in FP are on Kodiaks/Annihilators. Lowering AC 10 heat down to 2.75 doesnt do a thing at all. All this will do is encourage more clan UAC 5 boating because clan UAC 10s will be less attractive. You might see slightly more IS UAC 10 builds in QP i guess. Slepinirs/Maulers are not going to stop boating UAC 5s because of this. Again, this is what happens when you dont play your own game and have no idea what people actually use.

PGI logic : We will make the IS UAC 10 cooler so people will use it more!

Player logic : Uh, who cares? My 4x UAC 5 mauler/slepinir still does more DPS at a longer range and is cooler?

[/size][/font]

PGI logic : We will increase the max range more even though everyone has been telling us that the problem is that the spread makes it unusable at 300+ meters as it is. Surely players will use it at longer ranges where it is even less ineffective than before?

It is painfully obvious that PGI has never tried using MRMs at 450 meters before.

[/size][/font]

PGI Logic : Assassins have good performance, so they don't need more missile velocity.

Player logic : We don't use the assassin for missile velocity quirks, do you even know why the assassin is outperforming most lights/mediums at the moment?



PGI logic : Dragons are performing well, even though the only dragons in FP are the occasional 3x LPL dragon, so we have to nerf their energy quirks.

Player logic : That's okay, we will just boat LPLs on another mech instead and everyone running medium lasers/MPL in QP get shafted.

[/size][/font]

PGI Logic : We will discourage people from using the stock ER PPC + LPL combo (which was never popular compared to laser vomit anyway) and just encourage more LPL boating instead.

Player logic : So we will either boat LPLs on the WHK-C or run laser vomit on the MAD-IIC instead which has better in almost every way.

I could go into more detail but this is all a classic example of what happens when you only look at stats and have no idea what people actually bring in real world matches. Like, really, the DRAGON of all mechs is OVER PERFORMING?! When almost every IS mech in the first three waves is a laser vomit grasshopper, warhammer, black knight or battlemaster on most maps? Where is it over performing, in tier 5 matches?

Absolutely no mention of how laser vomit is "over performing" or how LBXs are "under performing". Funny that.

But what do I now do with my 3 Dragon 1Cs? I renamed one of my Awesomes Danerys Targaryen cause it ran it with the 3 1Cs in CW.