47 replies to this topic

[Slowth]

OK everyone,
I know the tutorial is long and some what prevents your access to the real game.

BUT...........

If you only learn ONE thing.

Remember to press

R

There' lots of other good stuff, but remember when you look at a new enemy press R.

Can't stress enough R will give you (and your team) an advantage.

Just try it and see how you go.

Good Luck.

[AureliusDean]

And HOLD the lock on what is called.

[InspectorG]

Slowth, on 09 August 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

OK everyone,
I know the tutorial is long and some what prevents your access to the real game.

BUT...........

If you only learn ONE thing.

Remember to press

R

There' lots of other good stuff, but remember when you look at a new enemy press R.

Can't stress enough R will give you (and your team) an advantage.

Just try it and see how you go.

Good Luck.

Good info...but outdated.

Nowadays, new Mechwarriors need to press W

W = win

S = suck

[The Basilisk]

InspectorG, on 09 August 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

Good info...but outdated.

Nowadays, new Mechwarriors need to press W

W = win

S = suck

Even if only partially right this makes more sense nowadays than the press 'R' and hold locks stuff.

Things that you get when pressing 'R' IF you should get an enemy that isn't out of range and not protected by ECM:

-- A nice red box around the enemy. This is a good thing when you can not realy see enemys due to Missile, RAC or other FX that blocks your sight on the enemy mech.
On the other hand when you get that much fire you did it wron'g already and won't live long enough to use your nice red box.

-- Your team gets informed where the locked enemy is by putting him on the map and your directions indicator.

-- You feed and encurage Lurmleeches that refuse to share armor, leech damage and kills by using their autoaim weapons.
A big problem especially when your team is already lighter and has less hitpoints than the enemy.
If now 2 or three mechs stand back and refuse to put their metal buts on the line your front guys get their faces smashed in in no time.
Since the lurmleech is mostly just unable to do anything than wait for locks and push the trigger button it is actually the fault of the guy that pressed instead of waiting till the leech lubered towards the enemy and did its only usefull purpose to pose as tempting target.

-- Friendly fire in tight quarters. When ever you push 'R' on an enemy that is close to you but far from your team be sure not to be in your friendlys line of sight. Lots of ppl just shoot at the red square instead of making safe shoots.

-- Attract friendly mechs. Yes right since there are lots of mechs on the field that are pretty slow or refuse to carry usefull sensors you attract friendlys towards the probably only locked target.
It is now up to you if you want your guys to go after this target or not.
Sometimes it can be smarter to state: "single enemy light in XY heading towards YX" over Voice or Chat than pushing 'R' to prevent a squirrel hunt.

[BTGbullseye]

The Basilisk, on 09 August 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

-- You feed and encurage Lurmleeches that refuse to share armor, leech damage and kills by using their autoaim weapons.
A big problem especially when your team is already lighter and has less hitpoints than the enemy.
If now 2 or three mechs stand back and refuse to put their metal buts on the line your front guys get their faces smashed in in no time.
Since the lurmleech is mostly just unable to do anything than wait for locks and push the trigger button it is actually the fault of the guy that pressed instead of waiting till the leech lubered towards the enemy and did its only usefull purpose to pose as tempting target.

I think I found someone that never learned to dodge LRMs... LRMs are very easy to counter, and not as easy as you seem to think to run. If the person using them is inexperienced, or unskilled, they can indeed seem to be a leech for the team, but those aren't as common as you portray. (and almost never harmful to the team unless you refuse to hold a lock that would not harm you to hold)

The biggest problem isn't the LRM boats in the back, it's people at the front that don't lock targets to get that LRM support. You complain about dying without support, well lock the target and you'll get the support! Direct-fire weapons aren't the be-all end-all of the Mechwarrior universe, and people that treat them like they are are a cancer to this community. Almost every weapon has its place, and you just don't like the place that LRMs take.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 10 August 2017 - 12:28 AM.

[The Basilisk]

BTGbullseye, on 10 August 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

I think I found someone that never learned to dodge LRMs... LRMs are very easy to counter, and not as easy as you seem to think to run. If the person using them is inexperienced, or unskilled, they can indeed seem to be a leech for the team, but those aren't as common as you portray. (and almost never harmful to the team unless you refuse to hold a lock that would not harm you to hold)

The biggest problem isn't the LRM boats in the back, it's people at the front that don't lock targets to get that LRM support. You complain about dying without support, well lock the target and you'll get the support! Direct-fire weapons aren't the be-all end-all of the Mechwarrior universe, and people that treat them like they are are a cancer to this community. Almost every weapon has its place, and you just don't like the place that LRMs take.

Oh little one...LRMs are useless because they dont even do dmg.
Its just yesterday evening when we did a little 2vs 2 in our unit and a spotter hunter team faced of against an other team doing the same strat.
Both lurmers got over 600dmg and no kills while the spotters bot killed a lurmer and finaly one killed the other.

The reson I dispise them so much is that they are pure and blank a waste of tonnage in addition to block the using player from improving on all other weapons.

Learning to use LRMs is something that no new player should do untill he got decent and consistent results with all other weapons on all maps, sensor and light conditions.

Edited by The Basilisk, 10 August 2017 - 07:15 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

The Basilisk, on 10 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

LRMs are useless because they dont even do dmg.

I average 1800 with at least 5 KMDD + 1 kill, and 9 assists. They do a lot of damage if you build them right.

The Basilisk, on 10 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

Its just yesterday evening when we did a little 2vs 2 in our unit and a spotter hunter team faced of against an other team doing the same strat.
Both lurmers got over 600dmg and no kills while the spotters bot killed a lurmer and finaly one killed the other.

Why did you put LRMs in a 2v2? They are typically designed to be a 'support' mech, not a dueling mech. (the MCII is a rare exception to the rule)

The Basilisk, on 10 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

The reson I dispise them so much is that they are pure and blank a waste of tonnage in addition to block the using player from improving on all other weapons.

I never knew owning a LRM boat prevented you from owning or running any other mech... Guess I need to report my account to PGI, because that system isn't affecting me.

The Basilisk, on 10 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

Learning to use LRMs is something that no new player should do untill he got decent and consistent results with all other weapons on all maps, sensor and light conditions.

There are players who have been playing this game since Beta that don't get consistent results with any weapon, yet are some of the best players in the game... Consistency on UACs has no bearing whatsoever on how good you are with lasers, or LBXs, or missiles of any sort, so why do you think people should be good at those first?

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

I average 1800 with at least 5 KMDD + 1 kill, and 9 assists. They do a lot of damage if you build them right.

Currently it has nothing to building them right, it is being the only shark in the pool with full of little children. Your tier was tanked a few seasons ago putting you at the far end of T5, and just today you moved into T4. Those of those hopeless beginners in T5 never knew what hit them.

First, my perspective based on your stats.

Season 11, 4 months ago your overall rank was 29000+ in average match score. Last month/season your win/loss and K/D percentage broke into the black. Congrats. This current month/season you are ranked, at least at the time of this post, 331 in average match score overall. Earlier today you were T5 but has since moved into T4. That would be like a T1 player creating an alt account and asking as a coyote in the hen house.

And, if you are way in the back behind over, you are now simply using those newbies in the front as cannon fodder. Even if they hit the R key they are still ducking/hiding to avoid being hit. Your posts are the ones the new players should avoid.

The one thing the forum stats do not differentiate is Solo Queue vs Group Queue, and of course it does not include Faction Play stats, that is only avail in game itself for that current season.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 10 August 2017 - 11:18 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

You should know, I hadn't played since early Open Beta, until about 3 months ago... (after May 15th) Any stats prior to then are at best completely unrepresentative of anything whatsoever. (and everything within the first week of my return as well, as I was only playing with a poorly equipped CTF-4X and the trial mechs)

Also, I don't sit in back... I'm usually front line, taking hits because nobody else is scouting or locking targets... I can tank as much as the next assault, and my best matches I have one side almost gone, and the other without armor. (next best, I'm missing a side) I don't drag down the team just to hide from damage.

PS: I only ever play in PUGs... I don't have a large enough group online at one time to do significant group play matches. (and no, I'm not looking to move into a unit that does)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 10 August 2017 - 11:42 AM.

[The Basilisk]

BTGbullseye, on 10 August 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

I average 1800 with at least 5 KMDD + 1 kill, and 9 assists. They do a lot of damage if you build them right.


Why did you put LRMs in a 2v2? They are typically designed to be a 'support' mech, not a dueling mech. (the MCII is a rare exception to the rule)


I never knew owning a LRM boat prevented you from owning or running any other mech... Guess I need to report my account to PGI, because that system isn't affecting me.


There are players who have been playing this game since Beta that don't get consistent results with any weapon, yet are some of the best players in the game... Consistency on UACs has no bearing whatsoever on how good you are with lasers, or LBXs, or missiles of any sort, so why do you think people should be good at those first?

--1800dmg...well divide by 4 and you get the actual dmg without splash. Thats 450 and on the verge to okish...since the dmg numbers almost doubbled since the introduction of new skill tree 300dmg a match is not eneough to carry your own weight.
Or in other words you 450 dmg is enough to kill one and scratch the paint on a coupple of others so...well at least you carried your own weigth.

--Why carring in a 2v2 for the lulz?
Why carrying them in 12 v 12 when you just can walk up and kill the enemy ?
Why carrying them at all? You only carry the LRMs and your C-bills balance not the match.
Since you got a numbers limit, 12 vs 12, every mech that does support and abandons the front and hangs back is simply a mech that does not get shoot and does not count to the teams hitpoints.
If it would be a combat value thing you could get the numbers on the enemy and send cheap but high HP units front and let LURMERs do some backstanding support...thats how LRMs or any other tactical support weapon is intended...but this is MWO not Battletech and MWO maps are too smal for such tactics anyway.
If you do some Lurmzerking (I think bad Girl Chados formed that term but I'm not sure) meaning stay at 200 - 400m and use your own locks and BAP, TAG, A4 (yes this actually works and is the only valid way to use ATMs only the distance is 150-350m) you will notice that you do noticeably more kills and less dmg but it will only work in 1 out of 3 games when enemy is timid and has only long range weapons himself.

-- Oh come on "preventing you from owning and operating..." now thats childish.

-- One of the reasons there are players that are playing since closed beta (like me) but not improving a bit (hopefully not like me ) is bad habbits.
And as we all know habits carry over.
You may have noticed when switching from light to assault or vice vers that you have some issues the first one or two games to play more aggressive or less aggressive than good for your curent ride.
Same thing goes for different weapon classes. You need to adapt your play style a little.
And the playstyle to get numbers with an LRM mech is nothing but toxic to any other style and additionaly the most different from all other weapon classes.

Edit: back to topic.

There is no easy mode to MWO, there is no learn at least this and be at least ok !
There are a whole lot of things you need to learn first to be okish.

Edited by The Basilisk, 11 August 2017 - 12:27 AM.

[JD Wack]

Advantages of pressing R for target lock far, far outweighs any and all disadvantage(s), hypothetically or otherwise. In fact, this is so obvious a fact, that I can't believe I'm saying it out loud. But reading here, reading how pressing R is discouraged due to it enabling friendly assault 'mechs to hide away from emminent danger and thus cause crashing defeat for the entire team - that is simply preposterous and absolutely wil have to be adressed in protest.

Key to succes on this here battlefield - as on any other - is coordination of manouver and aggression. Communcation and sharing of target-info. There can be none of that without R. No calling for specific targets, no concentration of fire and no effective scouting. Loss upon loss will mare the players not using all tools at their disposal. Including pressing R

Please.

Also, jut for my own piece of hide on the line - I'm a light pilot by heart. I have no true-bred LRMboats in my 'mech-park, but have a couple that has LRM's as primary damage-method, but on each it' the range that counts and so each also have other long-ranged ballistic or laser weapons.

[The Basilisk]

JD Whack, on 11 August 2017 - 03:14 AM, said:

Advantages of pressing R for target lock far, far outweighs any and all disadvantage(s), hypothetically or otherwise. In fact, this is so obvious a fact, that I can't believe I'm saying it out loud. But reading here, reading how pressing R is discouraged due to it enabling friendly assault 'mechs to hide away from emminent danger and thus cause crashing defeat for the entire team - that is simply preposterous and absolutely wil have to be adressed in protest.

Key to succes on this here battlefield - as on any other - is coordination of manouver and aggression. Communcation and sharing of target-info. There can be none of that without R. No calling for specific targets, no concentration of fire and no effective scouting. Loss upon loss will mare the players not using all tools at their disposal. Including pressing R

Please.

Also, jut for my own piece of hide on the line - I'm a light pilot by heart. I have no true-bred LRMboats in my 'mech-park, but have a couple that has LRM's as primary damage-method, but on each it' the range that counts and so each also have other long-ranged ballistic or laser weapons.

Key is communication, alright.
A hint:
If you want to communicate open your mouth ! --> Voice com
If you can't do that, use the chat.

Sharing target data is something you should use with thought and care not stupidly push one button and think this is a good thing.
If you want to communicate a certain target it is far more important to use the command wheel key after locking a target to communicate there is something you think is worth of your team attention appart for the obvious.

Its like this runaround morronic push push push philosophy some guys are clinging to like the drunkard is clinging to the last bottle of what he thinks is good booze.

Again MWO is not a game of simple facts and reality where you can just do one thing and be good.

Edited by The Basilisk, 11 August 2017 - 06:29 AM.

[JD Wack]

@The Basillisk, since you'e quoting me in your rather generally directed comment - please, don't be condescending. Especially when considering what you say, is in no way a 'hint' and in the offered context is actually impossible. Tell me: How will you ensure that everyone targets "golf" if you do not Lock "golf"? Good luck with lengthy descriptions of the 'mech you want targeted, cluttering up the comm. And how about UAV's?? They target everything they see. So on and so forth, I can't even imagine.

Also, reading this threat in it's entirety will plainly reveal that it is in fact you that puts forth the notion that "you can just do one thing and be good." Even, another poster has already put this to you in relation to your claiming using LRM's will keep players from evolving their skills with other weapons. This, of course, because I'm at a loss why you say that whole "Again, ... goood"-sentence to me.

Either way, what you choose to do, locking targets or not, is between you and your team at any given time. What I react to i how it is not helping, a) any players, novices or others. And b.) is not helping fixing the problem that lies at the heart of what you say. Which, as I understand it, is that some players like to hang back and rain war-metal out of the sky, and that you feel that this particular playstyle ruins your experience of playing. And that's why you don't press R for target locks: to not give these people a target so they won't get to do their LRM-thing.

If so, I get the frustration. Playing Domination on Grim Plexus, me in a light, that's how it always is. The entire team getting chewed up from not realizing that the only cover to be had is right underneath the enemy team; not on the other side of the circle. The four structures in F7 of that map being a point of case.

But the answer is not to quit locking targets. That's not going to encourage players to evolve their skills. If anything it is regression and actually can't but lower the experience of playing, not only to the LRM-boat'ers, but also to you yourself.

Edited by JD Whack, 11 August 2017 - 10:16 AM.

[Kylere]

People who refuse to lock because they do not like LRM's are basically the children of MWO. They would rather lose than play well.

I recommend they try a different game, better suited to their abilities, perhaps Monopoly.

[BTGbullseye]

The Basilisk, on 11 August 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

--1800dmg...well divide by 4 and you get the actual dmg without splash. Thats 450 and on the verge to okish...since the dmg numbers almost doubbled since the introduction of new skill tree 300dmg a match is not eneough to carry your own weight.
Or in other words you 450 dmg is enough to kill one and scratch the paint on a coupple of others so...well at least you carried your own weigth.

Why do so many think that taking 6 enemies down to their backup weapons is not helping with killing them, or winning? I remove all their armor, and most of their weapons, usually half their mech as well before someone else finishes it off. It's not useless damage just because it's not all hitting the same component.

[The Basilisk]

Think and obviously misinterpret what you want and continue talking all over the points I made.

If you want to stay T4 forever just go ahead but please stop talking nonsense where new players could fall for this stuff.

I never said that you should not push 'R'

Again and again my points where:

-- Stop talking easymode there is none to be found

-- Pushing 'R' on an enemy that your sensors mange to detect can be benificial or missleading...without communication its just randomnes.
Especially in QP.
What could happen at best is that you alert friedlys of a worthy target and get yourself a nice targeting assistance.
At its worse you cause parts of your team to start squirrel hunting or missinterpret a tactical situation.
Pushing 'R' on 3 single mechs may misslead your guys to a place where the main enemy group has clear shots in their backs. Don't know how often I saw this.
A scout franticaly pushing 'R' to farm scouting rewards or simply beeing the "Igot one, I got one" guy, splitting the team over it or get ppl to panic.

--> Use every and all game functions with care and use your brains.

-- There are certain playstyles that are incompatible with each other.
Certain weapon systems encourage those playstyles.
That is why I would discurage any LRM related playstyle for new players.
It is simply more work and a bigger, harder change to learn direct fire and especially ballistic or charge up weapons that require lots of movement later on.

Edited by The Basilisk, 12 August 2017 - 02:55 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

Now you are saying that not knowing where the enemy actually is is beneficial to players? Most players are inexperienced, and will run after the squirrel, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't show ANYONE that there is a squirrel behind you. Locking targets is always better than not, and eventually the players will either learn not to chase the squirrel, or they'll stop playing because they keep dying/losing. Not targeting doesn't help.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 13 August 2017 - 03:06 AM.

[The Basilisk]

BTGbullseye, on 13 August 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

Now you are saying that not knowing where the enemy actually is is beneficial to players? Most players are inexperienced, and will run after the squirrel, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't show ANYONE that there is a squirrel behind you. Locking targets is always better than not, and eventually the players will either learn not to chase the squirrel, or they'll stop playing because they keep dying/losing. Not targeting doesn't help.

No I said QTF and stop talking nonsense.

Communication is the key to winning.
This is done by using voice com or at least the chat.
Sharing targeting data is a good thing, as long as it is done with care not at random or for the sake of lurmers and backstanders to bolster their score.

Stop wanting to have the last word, just saw a post you made that is completely misleading and borders on trolling a newby player.
That poor guy has still a blue designator and you basicaly tell him driving a LRM 40 Stormcrow would be ok for a newby? QTF
Thats active sabotage.

Edited by The Basilisk, 13 August 2017 - 04:04 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Just because it doesn't play to your particular style, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. He specifically asked for an LRM build for a mech he had already purchased, and I gave him a suggestion that I would personally try. If you can't handle that, I suggest you find someone outside of this game to help you cope.

Now, can we get back on topic, and quit with the whining about LRMs?

Edited by BTGbullseye, 13 August 2017 - 06:45 AM.

[B0oN]

If you learn nothing else : Learn directfiring weapons .