38 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

Just wanted to share some info that I got from Neema, who is the guy in charge of hit reg related issues.

I sent him this video of a stationery Banshee getting shot at in the CT to no effect (you can see the reticle never went red when I shot him at about 9 seconds into the video) and we talked about hit reg issues.

This was his initial response :

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I am not working on this currently. However, this is an interesting video. I've seen this kind of problem every now and then. I don't think this has anything to do with HSR or even lag. There appears to be some kind of bug in the game, where sometimes the CT of a mech stops receiving damage.

He further said that PGI couldn't reproduce these "no damage" instances in house so they made it lower priority for the moment (basically not working on it currently), but if people can identify some kind of common factor in these cases, they might be able to identify the cause and fix it.

In regards to poor hit reg in general :

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In our testing, the failures cases always involved small positional differences between mech placement on client and server. The problems often manifest with fast moving mechs, or quick shots where the player swings their arms quickly, etc in the presence of lag. Fixing this specific problem is not straight forward, due to some architecture details in the way the movement code works.

So yes, higher ping = more hit reg issues, and hit reg is worse when trying to shoot fast moving mechs in general or swinging your arms too quickly.

Back to the banshee taking no damage :

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With that said, we have never been able to reproduce situations that you have reported above with stationary, or slow moving mechs. Which is part of the reason why I speculate the bug is unrelated to HSR or even lag, but some kind of problem in our collision detection or damage calculation code. This is, of course, only speculation.

Recap on HSR (Host State Rewinding, which is the anti-lag feature in MWO) :

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HSR (Host State Rewinding) specifically "rolls back" the state of the server to the time at which a player perceived their weapon shooting (a player's perception of the server's state is delayed due to lag). Upon rollback, the server then performs the shot as normal, any hits that occur are then considered valid. The effect is that the targets should now be under your crosshair on the server (assuming your aim was accurate) when the shot is performed. This is a bit more complicated for projectiles, but its the gist of how it works.

In regards to shots doing damage to the rear even though the mech is shot from the front :

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Regarding the shots dealing damage to the back of Mechs even though they are hit from the front, I am not certain about what causes this. I was just speculating that it could be a bug in the damage calculation code, but it certainly could be a bug in the HSR algorithm as well, or even a bug that only manifests when the two systems interact in a specific way.

Conclusion :

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Yeah, it should be fine to tell people what I said. I would love to fix these bugs and improve the game for you guys If I can get a good lead, I might be able to up the priority and spend some time on it.

So basically, if you can get more videos of weird hit reg issues, send them to him. Also helps if you can identify some kind of common cause.

Feel free to repost this on reddit or wherever.

[Ruar]

I appreciate the fact we have concrete proof that lights traveling at high speed are effected by hit reg issues. It's something I've said often in regards to hitting light mechs and something many players pass off as "it's not an issue anymore". Obviously, it's still an issue.

[Paigan]

Interesting.
I'd say:
- Implement a replay function.
- Gather game replays with the occurance.
- Debug the replay reproduction at the interesting point.
(work smarter, not harder)

There's tons of reasons for a replay function anyway (players sharing games they're proud of, reporting, e-sports, solaris, even MC spending) and now there's one more: debugging the countless bugs in the game.

Edited by Paigan, 22 September 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[VXJaeger]

I took a year off from game because of this bug, and it hasn't still been fixed.
TOday I played challenges HG-section, and its slugs just flew through targets. FTS.

[Johnny Z]

Well its good its an issue that has some attention anyway.

[FuzzyNZ]

What about this issue?

[Bobby Jubraj]

Hey everyone,

Friendly reminder to please not send these type of reports directly to PGI staff and instead please send them over to technical@mwomercs.com as we'll make sure these videos are looked into by the right folks.

Thanks

[Ghogiel]

FuzzyNZ, on 22 September 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

What about this issue?

I can't really see what the issue is, is it that you didn't know dmg transfers to the front armor?

[MadRover]

Bobby Jubraj, on 22 September 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Hey everyone,

Friendly reminder to please not send these type of reports directly to PGI staff and instead please send them over to technical@mwomercs.com as we'll make sure these videos are looked into by the right folks.

Thanks

Can we make these hit reg issues a higher priority please? I for one am tired of seeing my weapons do nothing to someone's back at point blank.

[Shadowomega1]

Well that explains why I have been able to rear armor hit on Atlases in the rear armor from the front, just by aiming their waist.

[Bobby Jubraj]

MadRover, on 22 September 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

Can we make these hit reg issues a higher priority please? I for one am tired of seeing my weapons do nothing to someone's back at point blank.

Yeah my answer here would be the same conclusion Neema provided, which is if you guys run into this behavior in a match, send over a short video of this to support so we can log this with the right folks to look into.

The more videos we get, the more information can be collected and the greater chance that the priority can be bumped up

[Mainhunter]

Had it last week. A Locust was running straight at me, starting from a longer distance (500m+) and I put at least 80% of two alphas into him, only to witness, he was everywhere not more than yellow. I watched clearly his armor when I was shooting, because I had the time, and I saw zero blinking of the hitted spots.

That guy had a ping of 190 and I remember thinking by my self, that it wouldn't be too bad if PGI would deny Ping ~>200 players from using light Mechs at all.

I remember even the same occurrence with my Mad Dog streak boat, releasing two alphas at a light with similar results. There is no Light in the game who ends a fight with at least an orange part of his armor, after a 72 dmg salvo.

BTW. can you make the phase of those hitted blinking armor slots a bit longer?

Edited by Mainhunter, 22 September 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

FuzzyNZ, on 22 September 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

What about this issue?

That doesnt look like a hitbox error. When damage is applied to a destroyed component, there is some kind of damage penalty applied (which is unfair for spread weapons but thats another issue), and the remaining damage is always applied to the frontal armor of the next section.

As for why PGI thinks this is a good idea, your guess is as good as mine.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

That banchee was probably disco.

[Jun Watarase]

Teer Kerensky, on 22 September 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

That banchee was probably disco.

You can see that he was shooting me in the video, so no, he wasn't disco.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

My bad now that I looked it again.

[justcallme A S H]

Jun Watarase, on 22 September 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

So yes, higher ping = more hit reg issues, and hit reg is worse when trying to shoot fast moving mechs in general or swinging your arms too quickly.

I'm playing with between 200/240-300ms ping day in, day out.

I hear a lot of people saying this but I'm really not seeing it much at all. The biggest one is cERPPC's missing or not "clipping" when sometimes I think they should, but it's a super-rare occurrence.

Not saying it doesn't existing but I hear a LOT of people talking about it yet I never really experience it myself under the same conditions.

[Davegt27]

my Assassin -23 moves at 119.5kph and I have lost a leg in every match since the patch

so I am not sure its a universal problem

this is interesting been wondering about this stuff since day 1 that I stared playing
I saw they displayed ping so I thought it must be important or why display it
when I asked they said just your ping number no big deal (well if its no big deal why display the number was my thought)

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HSR (Host State Rewinding) specifically "rolls back" the state of the server to the time at which a player perceived their weapon shooting (a player's perception of the server's state is delayed due to lag). Upon rollback, the server then performs the shot as normal, any hits that occur are then considered valid. The effect is that the targets should now be under your crosshair on the server (assuming your aim was accurate) when the shot is performed. This is a bit more complicated for projectiles, but its the gist of how it works.

I been going back and listening to all NGNG's pod casts and HSR was mentioned in the early days of MWO

so to get this straight in my head-- HSR normalizes the ping to a set number ??
why --it would seem impossible to me to know " the time at which a player perceived their weapon shooting"

how can anyone know what my perception is

so to me that would mean a set number
so if your shots fell outside the HSR number it would not record a hit

interesting

[JadePanther]

Bobby Jubraj, on 22 September 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Yeah my answer here would be the same conclusion Neema provided, which is if you guys run into this behavior in a match, send over a short video of this to support so we can log this with the right folks to look into.

The more videos we get, the more information can be collected and the greater chance that the priority can be bumped up

have you taken high velocity quirked mechs then maxed out velocity skill tree on them and tested that? perhaps add some lag into that mix there and see what happens as well.

[Rayden Wolf]

Davegt27, on 22 September 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

my Assassin -23 moves at 119.5kph and I have lost a leg in every match since the patch

so I am not sure its a universal problem

this is interesting been wondering about this stuff since day 1 that I stared playing
I saw they displayed ping so I thought it must be important or why display it
when I asked they said just your ping number no big deal (well if its no big deal why display the number was my thought)



I been going back and listening to all NGNG's pod casts and HSR was mentioned in the early days of MWO

so to get this straight in my head-- HSR normalizes the ping to a set number ??
why --it would seem impossible to me to know " the time at which a player perceived their weapon shooting"

how can anyone know what my perception is

so to me that would mean a set number
so if your shots fell outside the HSR number it would not record a hit

interesting

After your shots are fired, HSR rewinds every projectile, mech, missle and laserbeams in your los and calculates wich weapons has conected if i remember right. Higher pings normaly just delay the moment in wich you see the results of your actions.