63 replies to this topic

[Cato Phoenix]

I keep seeing this over and over again.

Either base rushing on Assault, pile-driving the base on Incursion, or sniping out the VIP in Escort, but cranking down a win in some modes seems to be done quite often.

However, there's absolutely no reason to do this. You (and your teammates) will mark exceptionally low match scores, with pitifully low C-bill rewards to match.

Now people will probably clamor: "But I'm playing the objective!" . I get it. I know what PTFO is, and like winning games, but a win without rewards is essentially meaningless. I'd much rather smash the opposing team and then work the objectives, or do it slowly. Just about the only time to push the objective win, in my opinion, is if you're going to lose by any other circumstances or if its such a close match that you need to make the outcome certain.

And for those stats-centric folk: while a quick win might bump your WLR improve marginally, but really push your match score to the dumps. I don't know - I guess some people care about WLR but it's a pretty meaningless stat to me, given you're often finding yourself in the potato fields in PUGlandia no matter what.

[adamts01]

Were you in that wasted Escort mission just now on Frozen City? I was on the winning team with almost 400 damage in the middle of a good fight when someone killed the VIP. Raked in 56k c-bills for that gem of a match. This is why I only want to play Skirmish, I want to shoot things.

[Bombast]

I think I've seen one instance of 'objective rushing' in the last few weeks. Crimson Strait, Incursion. We pushed over the saddle, no resistance, figured we'd attack the base and then slaughter them as they rushed back to stop us in confusion.

And then we destroyed their base because so few of them came back. Think there was a total of 300 damage the entire match.

I think what I'm trying to say is that objective rushes in QP are fairly rare, it's even rarer for them to succeed, and when they do, it's almost always because the other team catastrophically screwed up. And in those cases, its probably a blessing to just get the damn thing over with and move on.

General rule of thumb - Play objectives to control the flow of battle. If that results in a fun game, cool. If it results in an objective smash, less cool, but hey, it's Reds fault, not yours.

[Cato Phoenix]

adamts01, on 24 September 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

Were you in that wasted Escort mission just now on Frozen City? I was on the winning team with almost 400 damage in the middle of a good fight when someone killed the VIP. Raked in 56k c-bills for that gem of a match. This is why I only want to play Skirmish, I want to shoot things.

Not that match specifically, but I've found myself in a similarly frustrating situation quite often.

[Nightbird]

Objectives are only fun with team work, otherwise it's a random sh*t show.

[Snazzy Dragon]

b-b-b-b-b-but muh b-b-battletech!

Escort is a waste of time in terms of cbills. You can drop a 1k bomb and only make 100k, minus your consumables used. Incursion and assault superdupermegafuntime wins aare even more of a waste of time. I like conquest and skirmish. You get to shoot things and in conquest there's still objectives that promote overall map control and coordination.

[Trissila]

MWO is the only game/community I have ever encountered that actively wants to avoid the objective and complains if you attempt to achieve it.

No wonder the playercount is in the dumpster.

Then again, I guess I'm old; I come from an era where progress bars and payouts weren't the 'point' of competitive multiplayer video games, just victory over the opposing team.

[Bigbacon]

so....the point is to win.

[C E Dwyer]

Why there should be bigger pay outs for objectives and less for damage/kills

[R E S P E K]

Trissila, on 24 September 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

MWO is the only game/community I have ever encountered that actively wants to avoid the objective and complains if you attempt to achieve it.

No wonder the playercount is in the dumpster.

You read it backwards.

The skill discrepancy is this game is VERY VERY skewed. You have a very small population that sit on the higher end of play ability and understanding, a small population of brand new players, and a LARGE population of super casuals that know enough about the game to be dangerous (usually to themselves or their own team).

When you objective rush and do not fight (and win for doing it):

- you make no money

- you get no xp

- you would have run into more action driving one lap of the original mario kart for Super Nintendo. In other words, you spent the time to get into a pug queue match about fighting robots and you did not even fight.


It begs the question: what is the point? Easy win? Who cares? You did nothing for it and got nothing for it. You might as well just sit at your desk without even turning on your computer and throw your hands up and declare (to an empty room) "I WIN!"

Also, if you are a constant objective rusher, then your stats SUCK. Including your win loss, so you are clearly not after stat padding, so again, why bother?

[Bombast]

Trissila, on 24 September 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

MWO is the only game/community I have ever encountered that actively wants to avoid the objective and complains if you attempt to achieve it.

It happens in WoT too, but generally they just get mad if you try to complete it. They at least understand the value of cap pressure.

[Christophe Ivanov]

The way I see things, is the Objective is to be met first in matches that require it. Yeah I understand you want to kill and receive C bills and all that for it, I do too. But if I am playing a match that requires a base to be destroyed, or captured, then yeah it should be done over your personal wanting to kill and the hell with everything else. That's why we have different matches to suit everyone's taste.

Good luck!

[MischiefSC]

Trissila, on 24 September 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

MWO is the only game/community I have ever encountered that actively wants to avoid the objective and complains if you attempt to achieve it.

No wonder the playercount is in the dumpster.

Then again, I guess I'm old; I come from an era where progress bars and payouts weren't the 'point' of competitive multiplayer video games, just victory over the opposing team.

I'm a big fan of winning.

However, which is better - a hard fought victory in a match that is talked about long after and for which toy were richly rewarded

Or

The other team didn't show, you win by default and nobody gets any bonus pay, the fans amble out muttering that you guys couldn't have beaten the other team if they hadn't been held up.

Both are a win. One is way more satisfying than the other.

Objectives exist to force a fight a prevent turtling. At the time they originated poptarting was king and teams would take high ground/best cover and just turtle, poptarting anyone who came into range. Objectives stopped that. It was never intended as a way to avoid shooting stompy robbits in a stompy robbit shooting game.

[Trissila]

MischiefSC, on 24 September 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

I'm a big fan of winning.

However, which is better - a hard fought victory in a match that is talked about long after and for which toy were richly rewarded

Or

The other team didn't show, you win by default and nobody gets any bonus pay, the fans amble out muttering that you guys couldn't have beaten the other team if they hadn't been held up.

Both are a win. One is way more satisfying than the other.

Objectives exist to force a fight a prevent turtling. At the time they originated poptarting was king and teams would take high ground/best cover and just turtle, poptarting anyone who came into range. Objectives stopped that. It was never intended as a way to avoid shooting stompy robbits in a stompy robbit shooting game.

Nor could they be, if the other team actually wanted to play a stompy robbit shooting game.

It is impossible to win by base capture unless the other team actively refuses to defend their objective. One 'mech does not capture anywhere near fast enough to accomplish it solo unless all twelve enemy units decide that they will not bother securing their defense point. And if a large portion of your team is there -- large enough for the cap speed to be anything appreciable -- then that is where the fight is. So if the other team isn't defending their point, it's because they have chosen not to fight.

This is true in Assault, it is true in Incursion, it is indirectly true in Escort because 'mechs that are shooting at the VIP are NOT shooting at your team, meaning you have the advantage to push in and beat them down. The only thing stopping you is your own steadfast refusal to fight unless you can poke them down with the absolute minimum amount of actual combat involved.

The only time this mythical "capping without a fight" happens is when both teams are NASCARing around like idiots, one of them makes it to the objective first, and the other team cannot be bothered to go back to engage them. They didn't get a fight because they didn't want a fight, not unless it was a fight they were 99% certain they couldn't lose no matter how badly they played.

[Requiemking]

This is exactly why the score system needs a complete and total overhaul. Objectives in the current game are not only nearly worthless despite them being the entire reason we are there in the first place, but anyone who tries to go after them(like, for example, a Light mech) gets harassed for it. It adversely affects balance(since heavier mechs have a much easier time, they are played more), and it creates this midset that the only thing that matters is skirmish. The very fact that this game is advertised as a "thinking man's shooter" and yet the entirety of combat is centred around mindless deathmatch is just and additional weight on the chains.

[MadRover]

Bombast, on 24 September 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

It happens in WoT too, but generally they just get mad if you try to complete it. They at least understand the value of cap pressure.

capping the base in WoT is only acceptable if your team royally screwed up and is about to lose. Otherwise do it enough everyone will pretty much TK you every game.

[Bigbacon]

Requiemking, on 24 September 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

This is exactly why the score system needs a complete and total overhaul. Objectives in the current game are not only nearly worthless despite them being the entire reason we are there in the first place, but anyone who tries to go after them(like, for example, a Light mech) gets harassed for it. It adversely affects balance(since heavier mechs have a much easier time, they are played more), and it creates this midset that the only thing that matters is skirmish. The very fact that this game is advertised as a "thinking man's shooter" and yet the entirety of combat is centred around mindless deathmatch is just and additional weight on the chains.

where is this game advertised as a thinking mans shooter??? and how in the world can PGI even think calling it that is realistic.

[Requiemking]

Bigbacon, on 24 September 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

where is this game advertised as a thinking mans shooter??? and how in the world can PGI even think calling it that is realistic.

It used to be in the overview tab of the user's guide. It's not there any more(I just checked).

EDIT: I found where that came from originally. It was the title of an IGN article on the game written back in May of 2012. Here it the link.

Edited by Requiemking, 24 September 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[Ruar]

I was in a match the other day where our team pushed the side of the map, and their team ended up crossing the middle of frozen river. Sitting the base area is is boring/bad for our side so we tried to take the fight to them instead.

Ended up I didn't even care we lost because I got a little bit of fighting against big stompy robots and that was more important than winning. Especially when trying to win meant playing unfavorable terrain for two out of three options.

If the bases were placed in balanced locations it would be different, but when some maps favor one side or the other then it makes no sense to play the objective if it's going to put you at a disadvantage. Base you can do is hope the other team is game and engages instead of trying to get a boring win.

[C E Dwyer]

Bigbacon, on 24 September 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

where is this game advertised as a thinking mans shooter??? and how in the world can PGI even think calling it that is realistic.

That's how the game was pushed during closed beta.

It's clearly not, and the only people that thought it ever was are the two in charge of the company